Metal..

[Fiskare]

LOL, my wife passed by the monitor when I was reading that post, and said the same thing that we were thinking. Ahhh..good times.
Anyway, why was he even in here if he refuses to appreciate the legit genre of Metal. Some people.
I kind of phased out Metal sometime around '92 cause I was tired of the innundation of evil and negativity that went hand in hand with it. Then a few years later I discovered that the Christian Metal had made leaps and bounds since Stryper (metal?) so I have since dived headlong back into it. I dont know much about the secular end anymore, and I cannot keep up with all the sub-genre's they have tagged on these bands. But I know what I like, and the picking is good.

Yes, I agree. I think sadly that metal with a Christian emphasis hit a brick wall around 93 or so, but it is about to stage a comeback, with the re-emergence of power metal as the dominant sub-genre. It's all good because Leviticus have reformed.

 

[StandForTruth]

Anything that destroys or undermines faith.

Sanctification sometimes entails the mortification of our earthly pleasures. Sometimes it's our music that needs to die to the Lord.

Heh. If I thought for even a moment my music was affecting my faith-life in a negative way it would be gone. Immediately. But that is beside the point..

Well, as a musician of many years now, I can honestly say that the whole black/death/extreme metal scene is the one that lacks talent, vision, creativity and life, it's so easy to copy and play. Lyrically it's very bland and banal. (That's why it is dying. It will die completely except for a few good stalwart bands, and then in about ten years it will come back. Always has, always will.)

There are always a million clone bands in addition to the good ones, in every genre. Not sure I agree with your claim that extreme metal is dying, though. There really are a fair number of new bands doing interesting things.. I suppose it just depends if it catches on or not.

I doubt Immortal or Deicide will ever reach the musical heights of Meshuggah or Dream Theatre, for example.

Perhaps not, but I could just as easily say that Black Sabbath will never reach the musical heights of Cryptopsy or Demilich. If a band makes a point of having simple music it is rather an unfair comparison.

 

[Kepa]

I don't care much for Black Metal or Death Metal. I think I'm into Prog Metal or Power Metal? I'm not too sure with all these sub-genres. Rhapsody is a killer band imho. I got into metal via Metallica. I still like them. Although I don't think many people would still call them metal. I used to be into CoB and Emperor, but the lyrics and vocals got to me in the end... not my cup of tea any more. Metal rocks, it's as valid a genre as jazz. Oh yeah, Neo-classical is pretty dern cool. Yngwie is pretty awesome.

 

[Fiskare]

Heh. If I thought for even a moment my music was affecting my faith-life in a negative way it would be gone. Immediately. But that is beside the point..

Cool.

There are always a million clone bands in addition to the good ones, in every genre. Not sure I agree with your claim that extreme metal is dying, though. There really are a fair number of new bands doing interesting things.. I suppose it just depends if it catches on or not.

You got that right.

Perhaps not, but I could just as easily say that Black Sabbath will never reach the musical heights of Cryptopsy or Demilich. If a band makes a point of having simple music it is rather an unfair comparison.

I agree, except for the Sabbath thing. LOL.....I'm biased. I grew up on them.

 

[Fiskare]

I don't care much for Black Metal or Death Metal. I think I'm into Prog Metal or Power Metal? I'm not too sure with all these sub-genres. Rhapsody is a killer band imho. I got into metal via Metallica. I still like them. Although I don't think many people would still call them metal. I used to be into CoB and Emperor, but the lyrics and vocals got to me in the end... not my cup of tea any more. Metal rocks, it's as valid a genre as jazz. Oh yeah, Neo-classical is pretty dern cool. Yngwie is pretty awesome.

Yes, I agree there too. I guess the term metal is very interesting in and of itself. The sub-genres are just more ways of trying to describe music IMHO.

As I mentioned before, to me, what was metla some time ago is still metal, but just the older sound. However, these days, especially with you young whipper-snappers, it's difficult to tell what you call metal and what you don't. For example, my fave secular metal bands (currently) are Arch Enemy and In Flames. Are they considered metal by your guys?

 

[StandForTruth]

Oh yeah, Neo-classical is pretty dern cool. Yngwie is pretty awesome.

He's an excellent musician, but a bit overrated I think. And an [piece of anatomy] to his fans, too, from what I have heard.

A-rse is foul language? Good Lord.

I agree, except for the Sabbath thing. LOL.....I'm biased. I grew up on them.

I like Sabbath. But even so, you cannot pretend that they are anywhere near a lot of more recent bands, musicianship-wise.

For example, my fave secular metal bands (currently) are Arch Enemy and In Flames. Are they considered metal by your guys?

Yes, unfortunately. Swedish melodic garbage, and sellouts to boot, but metal.

 

[TheThinman]

However, these days, especially with you young whipper-snappers, it's difficult to tell what you call metal and what you don't.

Preach it Preacher!!!

 

[Fiskare]

He's an excellent musician, but a bit overrated I think. And an [piece of anatomy] to his fans, too, from what I have heard.

A-rse is foul language? Good Lord.

a) Yes he is.

b) Yes it is.

I like Sabbath. But even so, you cannot pretend that they are anywhere near a lot of more recent bands, musicianship-wise.

Three things make a musician:
a) Ability with the intrument.
b) Ability with composition.
c) Expressing in art the song of the heart and head.

Song-writing is b+c, and I think the Sabs were pretty high up on that scale.

Yes, unfortunately. Swedish melodic garbage, and sellouts to boot, but metal.

Melody- see: b) above. The Gothenburg sound is the way forward. The black/death-metal-cookie-monster-choking-on-a-fur-ball-with-no-melody-or-guitar-skills sound is dated and done.

 

[Stryper]

stryper OWNS U ALL AND ALL UR METAL. but i do like iron maiden, sepultura, dio, metallica, and pantera

 

[TheThinman]

stryper OWNS U ALL AND ALL UR METAL. but i do like iron maiden, sepultura, dio, metallica, and pantera

So sayeth the shepherd.....

 

[StandForTruth]

[/i]Three things make a musician:
a) Ability with the intrument.
b) Ability with composition.
c) Expressing in art the song of the heart and head.

Song-writing is b+c, and I think the Sabs were pretty high up on that scale.[/i]

Fair enough: I stated that poorly.

They are doing exactly what they intend to. Sure. But their songs are all rather easy to play.. and cannot hold a candle to the technicality of the bands I mentioned. As attested to by the fact that every 12 year old on the planet with a guitar and a few hours can learn to play Iron Man.. though I would love to see anyone learn Phobophile or Modern Iconoclasts in that time frame..

Melody- see: b) above. The Gothenburg sound is the way forward. The black/death-metal-cookie-monster-choking-on-a-fur-ball-with-no-melody-or-guitar-skills sound is dated and done.

Gothenburg? On the way forward? Could have fooled me. All the more popular bands in the genre are degenerating into commercialism and/or In Flames worship. Which in turn is basically Iron Maiden worship. Or in other words it is basically metal from 25 years ago with growled vocals and "better" (sterile, no character) production. Unless you could explain to me how gothenburg is progressing? I sure cannot hear it.

I mean, come on. Angela flat out admitted that Arch Enemy sold out, and if you cannot hear the same thing in In Flames' new material you need to start wearing ear protection at shows. Mallcore is dated and done too.

And your saying that death metal and death/grind is not progressing at all shows your ignorance of the genre. The new Exhumed is fantastic, Behemoth keeps pushing the black/death metal envelope, Monstrosity are kicking fully as much posterior as they always have, etc..

Sure, the genre is dated and done, if all you listen to is Disgorge and such like..

stryper OWNS U ALL AND ALL UR METAL

Stryper were, are, and always will be a joke, and a poor one at that. Get over them.

 

[yayson]

never could stryper, the hair, the costumes, the music ~shudder~

BC I liked Black Sabbath (and all related, Ozzy, Dio, Ian Gillan Band etc), Judas Priest, Metallica and the like, while having incredible disrespect for the hair bands. I think there's definitely a divide between bands with a passion and passion with a band (hair bands who are clearly in it for the chicks =)

AD I decided to renew my mind and swore off the garbage in, a rather massive music collection, a great deal of which was metal, hit the dumpster and I started over listening to Christian Contemporary Radio programming. Man was that hard to swallow! Like a meat and taters man trying to choke down some tofu and sprouts with a sushi chaser.

Eventually I came to realize a lot of the reason I hated the CCRadio programming was that the lyrics made me cringe. The deference to God as authority? PRaising him? Worshipping him?! My mind was so conditioned to equate cool/good with sex, drug, and machismo themes that I actually cringed at the things of God. So the transformation began!

Once God got me over that hurdle he ran me across Supertones, Five Iron Frenzy to show me there was something better coming that matched my passion a little closer. Then along came Blindside, Disciple, Leader Dogs for the Blind, Slick Shoes, PRoject 86, Pillar.... aw yeah, God is good! =D

Never did get into the more extreme metal, though a true metal head, or music lover for that matter, can always discern that talent and trueness of musicians and appreciate it. Man O War makes me laugh by the way =D

 

[Fiskare]

Ahhh...the militancy and absolutism of youth...refreshing, isn't it?

Gothenburg? On the way forward? Could have fooled me. All the more popular bands in the genre are degenerating into commercialism and/or In Flames worship. Which in turn is basically Iron Maiden worship. Or in other words it is basically metal from 25 years ago with growled vocals and "better" (sterile, no character) production. Unless you could explain to me how gothenburg is progressing? I sure cannot hear it.

First of all, what is wrong with Maiden? They changed the face of metal, and if you really think about, this kind of reasoning means that every single musician who has distortion on their guitar and plays a riff is guilty of Iommi/Sabbath worship! When I listen to metal, and I have been for three decades now, I hear all kinds of influences. I think anyone who calls the adoration of the founding heroes of metal a bad thing needs to be tied down and forced to listen to hours and hours of the Sabs, Budgie, BOC, Motorhead, Priest, UFO, the Scorps, and then given a drink of water, and forced to move into the 80's, when we start with Maiden, Metallica, Megadeth, and so forth, until they repent of their ways! Ahhh...if only we had a metal inquisition.

Thus, when I hear the Gothenburg sound, I hear the appropriate use of speed, fury, melody and the implementation of all that is good and wise that came before them. It's a new appraoch, a fresh way. For most of the nineties bands were rehashing the old ones or venturing into the banal world of nu-metal or worse, genre splicing eclecticism.

I mean, come on. Angela flat out admitted that Arch Enemy sold out, and if you cannot hear the same thing in In Flames' new material you need to start wearing ear protection at shows. Mallcore is dated and done too.

a) Arch Enemy have adopted a more accessible sound, but it works ok for me. I prefer the previous albums, but the newbie is pretty good. To the poseurs, this is called "selling out" (maybe Angela is appealing to them, or even, dare I say it, one of them?). To the serious music fan, selling out is changing completely for money. Arch Enemy will be a sell-out to me when they sound like Limp Biz or Korn. If they are exploring a new sound, and haven't got it righht yet, good for them. They're not exactly making money from the new album.

b) In Flames are developing nicely, thank you. RtR was furious, faster and yet more melodic than it's excellent predecessors.

And your saying that death metal and death/grind is not progressing at all shows your ignorance of the genre. The new Exhumed is fantastic, Behemoth keeps pushing the black/death metal envelope, Monstrosity are kicking fully as much posterior as they always have, etc..

True, I don't keep up with these bands any longer.

Last night I was at a metal show, a more diverse one than expected. We had a neo-nu-metal band, a total thrasher/techno-guitar grind band, a disgraceful poseur band, and the headliners were arch-traditionalist. In discussions with my friends, we all decided that black/death was dead, boring, and one of my friends (who has his own signed band,and used to be into that sound) doesn't even consider them metal anymore. He's like you, but on the opposite side of the fence! LOL

Sure, the genre is dated and done, if all you listen to is Disgorge and such like..

Disgorge were never alive in the first place to me.

Stryper were, are, and always will be a joke, and a poor one at that. Get over them.

Stryper a joke? A lucrative one perhaps, but one that paved the way for countless other Christian hard-rock acts in the secular market. I pay them respect. I saw them live, and they kicked. They're excellent musicians.

 

[Fiskare]

Man O War makes me laugh by the way =D

Yes, but it's an "in-joke" all the same.

 

[Fiskare]

They are doing exactly what they intend to. Sure. But their songs are all rather easy to play.. and cannot hold a candle to the technicality of the bands I mentioned. As attested to by the fact that every 12 year old on the planet with a guitar and a few hours can learn to play Iron Man.. though I would love to see anyone learn Phobophile or Modern Iconoclasts in that time frame..

Well, you bring a good point.

Firstly, I think it's important to know that every twelve year old should learn to play Iron Man, even though the soloing in the break of the song is a little complex at first. The difference is that it will take him a lot longer to learn to play Fairies Wear Boots from the same album, especially if he is a bassist.

The Sabs like to keep it basic, that's why it's good. It's original too.

However, for every Phobophile or Modern Iconoclast you have I have a Flaming Telepaths and an Ergonomic to trump you with, let alone an album like Train of Thought, and these are all very diverse sounds.

You would have to agree with me on one thing though- even technicality does not equate to being good. It's great when we have both, but sometimes just a simple Symptom of the Universe is far more pleasing than a Messugah song.

 

[TheThinman]

You know, before I started to roam this forum, I thought I knew quite a bit about the metal genre, or at least enough to hold my own in conversation with my metal peers. But you guys have me second guessing myself. Granted I have made it known that I couldnt tell you what any given metal band falls into its respective genre or sub-genre. And I know virtually nothing about secular metal bands that came out past '92 - '94, I dont even know evry Christian metal band.
But I would like to know more. I dont think that I want to spend my hard earned money on a secular metal band that stands against everything I believe in, regardless of thier talent level. But if there is anything out there that anyone can recommend, i would consider it. I see alot of names being thrown out in various forums that Ive never heard like Meshugga (check spelling) for example. And Im not always sure if some of the bands I read about are Christian or otherwise, but I always like to discover new material to add to my collection.
Just to give an idea of what I like, some of the first real Christian metal I got into; Mortification, Vengeance Rising, The Unashamed, Crimson Thorn, Tourniquet among others. I still listen to these old albums and cherish them. However, I think that my tastes have changed somewhat cause the stuff that gets the most play in my collection are bands like Living Sacrifice who I think is my all time favorite, all their albums. Also stuff like ZAO, Norma Jean, Soul Embraced, Still Breathing, Figure Four, you know, alot of the SolidState Records bands. I even really like the Electronic sort of industrial stuff by Circle of Dust/Brainchild/Celldweller and Argyle Park, but I know thats not even really metal except for some riffs, and thats off the topic. I guess that some of my stuff is considered "metal-core" and if thats the way my style pendulum has swung so be it. But I would not object to anything that differed. Im not crazy about anything "melodic" like alot of the over seas metal bands. But I would greatly appreciate ANY suggestions guys.

 

[Fiskare]

You know, before I started to roam this forum, I thought I knew quite a bit about the metal genre, or at least enough to hold my own in conversation with my metal peers. But you guys have me second guessing myself. Granted I have made it known that I couldnt tell you what any given metal band falls into its respective genre or sub-genre. And I know virtually nothing about secular metal bands that came out past '92 - '94, I dont even know evry Christian metal band.

OK...cool......let's see...

But I would like to know more. I dont think that I want to spend my hard earned money on a secular metal band that stands against everything I believe in, regardless of thier talent level. But if there is anything out there that anyone can recommend, i would consider it. I see alot of names being thrown out in various forums that Ive never heard like Meshugga (check spelling) for example. And Im not always sure if some of the bands I read about are Christian or otherwise, but I always like to discover new material to add to my collection.

I might suggest checking out the names mentioned in this thread and other sources in the Amazon site, where they have little samples from the albums available for sale, as well as reviews from fans and foes alike.

Just to give an idea of what I like, some of the first real Christian metal I got into; Mortification,

Well, they are about to release their 12th album. It sounds pretty good but it is not like they were in the first four or five albums, with more of a tendency to be diverse.

Vengeance Rising,

Well, we know their demise. Great weren't they?

The Unashamed, Crimson Thorn, Tourniquet among others. I still listen to these old albums and cherish them. However, I think that my tastes have changed somewhat cause the stuff that gets the most play in my collection are bands like Living Sacrifice who I think is my all time favorite, all their albums. Also stuff like ZAO, Norma Jean, Soul Embraced, Still Breathing, Figure Four, you know, alot of the SolidState Records bands. I even really like the Electronic sort of industrial stuff by Circle of Dust/Brainchild/Celldweller and Argyle Park, but I know thats not even really metal except for some riffs, and thats off the topic. I guess that some of my stuff is considered "metal-core" and if thats the way my style pendulum has swung so be it. But I would not object to anything that differed. Im not crazy about anything "melodic" like alot of the over seas metal bands. But I would greatly appreciate ANY suggestions guys.

You've mentioned some excellent names there. I'm sure there is plenty around and available for sample from the site I mentioned above. Not to mention, there's a huge, big, beautiful backlog of old metal that needs to be savoured for a complete metallic life-experience.

The real hard question that stops me from offering suggestions is that I don't know what your position is on secular music. I will not offer recommend secular bands to someone who does not like it, but sadly, the Christian metal scene has lagged behind since the mid-90's but is about to have a massive revival.

 

[StandForTruth]

Ahhh...the militancy and absolutism of youth...refreshing, isn't it?

Acting condescending due to my age is both pointless and sickening. Kindly cut the [feces].

First of all, what is wrong with Maiden?

Nothing at all; they are great. But you are hardly "forward" if you are ripping off a band from 25 years ago, albeit poorly.

I think anyone who calls the adoration of the founding heroes of metal a bad thing needs to be tied down and forced to listen to hours and hours of the Sabs, Budgie, BOC, Motorhead, Priest, UFO, the Scorps, and then given a drink of water, and forced to move into the 80's, when we start with Maiden, Metallica, Megadeth, and so forth, until they repent of their ways! Ahhh...if only we had a metal inquisition.

Piledriver

Good grief. Influences are absolutely fine. You can't play metal without being influenced by old bands, in some way.

But seriously.. In Flames are Iron Maiden with less musicianship and more distortion. Original, hell.

When I hear the Gothenburg sound, I hear the appropriate use of speed, fury, melody and the implementation of all that is good and wise that came before them. It's a new appraoch, a fresh way. For most of the nineties bands were rehashing the old ones or venturing into the banal world of nu-metal or worse, genre splicing eclecticism.

Heh. What you hear is the exact same repetitive tripe that you accuse extreme metal of being. Admittedly, it is not as bad if you only listen to a few bands, but of the hundreds of bands in the genre, they all sound exactly the same, with a few notable exceptions.

a) Arch Enemy have adopted a more accessible sound, but it works ok for me. I prefer the previous albums, but the newbie is pretty good. To the poseurs, this is called "selling out" (maybe Angela is appealing to them, or even, dare I say it, one of them?). To the serious music fan, selling out is changing completely for money. Arch Enemy will be a sell-out to me when they sound like Limp Biz or Korn. If they are exploring a new sound, and haven't got it righht yet, good for them. They're not exactly making money from the new album.

Arch Enemy gets listed right along with Korn and Slipknot, now. Perhaps you should pay more attention, heh.

And yes, they sold out. I read an interview where Angela flat out said that they were trying to sound more commercial. This is the definition of selling out. I can try and dig it up for you, though I am not sure how successful I would be.

b) In Flames are developing nicely, thank you. RtR was furious, faster and yet more melodic than it's excellent predecessors.

"RtR" is simply commercial clone album #128312908312908. Perhaps with slightly better musicianship, but it is only debatably metal. That, the jumpsuits, and moronic stagetalk that I would expect from Limp Bizkit.. yes. That is developing.. into yet another no-integrity once-were-metal band, just like Metallica, Ozzy, Slayer, Megadeth, and way too many others.

and one of my friends (who has his own signed band,and used to be into that sound) doesn't even consider them metal anymore. He's like you, but on the opposite side of the fence! LOL

Like me, perhaps, with an important difference: I have a clue. Metal is music that is stylistically descended from what was originally called metal. You said this yourself. The progression is plain enough.. Sabbath, Maiden, (Overkill, Possessed, Obituary) or (Mercyful Fate, Venom, Mayhem..)

Just because you dislike something does not mean you can pretend doesn't belong to a genre.

Disgorge were never alive in the first place to me.

Join the club.

Stryper a joke? A lucrative one perhaps, but one that paved the way for countless other Christian hard-rock acts in the secular market. I pay them respect. I saw them live, and they kicked. They're excellent musician.

Their music was horrible, their "image" was worse. Simply my opinion. Since they are not metal, they have no relevance to this discussion regardless.

I dont even know evry Christian metal band.

No worries. I doubt I could name more then about 20 unless you want to go into sort-of-Christian secular bands.

But I would greatly appreciate ANY suggestions guys.

I posted a decent list on page one that incorporates most of the larger subgenres.. should be a good start.

Download Demilich's brilliant Nespithe here, too. Not technically legal, I suppose, but Necropolis are refusing to pay them royalties on the reissue of the album..

However, for every Phobophile or Modern Iconoclast you have I have a Flaming Telepaths and an Ergonomic to trump you with, let alone an album like Train of Thought, and these are all very diverse sounds.

A wise man once said: listen to music, not Dream Theater.

And, eh, Blue Oyster Cult are not metal..

Though, this is not about "who knows the best musicians." I really do not give a flying [sexual act] about whether one genre tends more toward technicality then another (gee, "progressive" would tend to attract really good musicians, who woulda thought it).. the point is ridiculous generalizations such as you made (and then like I made to show you what I meant) help no one.

You would have to agree with me on one thing though- even technicality does not equate to being good.

Of course.

 

[Fiskare]

Acting condescending due to my age is both pointless and sickening. Kindly cut the [feces].

I wasn't condescending, it was a compliment. I'm serious. You remind me of me at your age. I wish I had it again.

Arch Enemy gets listed right along with Korn and Slipknot, now.

Not in my circles. There's no similarity of sound either. AE don't rap.

"RtR" is simply commercial clone album #128312908312908. Perhaps with slightly better musicianship, but it is only debatably metal. That, the jumpsuits, and moronic stagetalk that I would expect from Limp Bizkit.. yes. That is developing.. into yet another no-integrity once-were-metal band, just like Metallica, Ozzy, Slayer, Megadeth, and way too many others.

Can't agree with you here. Remember my rule of thumb- once metal, always metal.

Like me, perhaps, with an important difference: I have a clue.

LOL. "the militancy and absolutism of youth"

Metal is music that is stylistically descended from what was originally called metal.

See below for an expansion.

You said this yourself. The progression is plain enough.. Sabbath, Maiden, (Overkill, Possessed, Obituary) or (Mercyful Fate, Venom, Mayhem..)

But, you are too narrow. To use this wise (and mutually agreed upon) methodolgy you must include lots and lots of 70's bands, none of which sounded the same (that was the beauty of it actually). Thus, "metal" (a term first used to refer to Led ZEP!!) is based on diverse sounds and remains as a development on those diverse sounds. Capische?

BTW- saying I don't have a clue abuot metal is rather silly because I was a heavy metal fan before you were born, and I'm not exaggerating. I've paid my dues. I've been around.

Just because you dislike something does not mean you can pretend doesn't belong to a genre.

.....ahhh..excellent point..to yourself!

Their music was horrible, their "image" was worse. Simply my opinion. Since they are not metal, they have no relevance to this discussion regardless.

All those points are only your opinion, and you're more than entitled to that.

And, eh, Blue Oyster Cult are not metal..

Apparently you've never heard "On Your Feet or On Your Knees", the ultimate distortion filled live killer of the 70's. Scraping guitars on stage, drum solos with chains instead of sticks, Harleys, lots of dark imagery, fast guitar work.....give me a break!

Hence, I've dissed people for less than that comment. People that say such things just don't *get them*, and it's no surprise, as BOC are beyond the norm, clearly intellectually beyond the reach of those who can't handle the pace. FYI, they practically invented dark poetic lyrics as a means of metallic imagery, and every band you like tips their hat to that philosophy.

Shall I give you a history lesson?

They were called "The foremost exponent of US heavy metal" by the Encylopedia of Rock in 1976.

Here's some quotes from album reviews for you:
[font=Arial,Helvetica]"...Screaming perditious hell fire and brimstone guitar slashing feedback stentority rooted in the sixth demensional afterworld of heavy metal, of which Blue Öyster Cult now holds the champion's belt" [/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica]-Arthur Levy, Zoo World (1973)[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]"I still consider Agents of Fortune to be perhaps the greatest Heavy Metal album of all time, mainly for its intelligence."
[font=Arial,Helvetica]- Xavier Russell, Kerrang! (recently stated) (Fiskare: That's not even a very heavy album by BOC standards!)[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]"They're the only metal maniacs I go back to see again and again. It's cause they're hot and musical at the same time, ravaging the ranks with splendiferous riffs complemented by teasingly tuneful tidbits and technological tremors"
[font=Arial,Helvetica]- Michael Davis, Creem[/font]

"Holy Concept album from hell! For thinking man's metal, no one outdoes Blue Öyster Cult."
[font=Arial,Helvetica]- Del James, Rip[/font]

Naturally, there's dozens of other quotes. Sure, by today's standards, they are not as heavy, but the better bands are clearly influenced by them with more distortion and speed.

Like I said, once metal, always metal, but then I'm a purist. You're a newbie on the block, so you only know what's new,and yuo can't help that. You might not think BOC, VH, Budgie, UHeep, UFO, MSG, Sabbath, Scorps etc are very heavy, but you must show respect, if nothing else, because all the stuff you like is just a rehash of their tricks, sounds and ideas, done with modern production. I agree, times have changed, but the genre is timeless.[/font][/font]

 

[StandForTruth]

Not in my circles. There's no similarity of sound either. AE don't rap.

I was referring primarily to thair fan base.

Can't agree with you here. Remember my rule of thumb- once metal, always metal.

Yeah, right. Metal is a music genre, and thus can be defined. If you no longer play music that fits that definition, you are no longer metal.

But, you are too narrow. To use this wise (and mutually agreed upon) methodolgy you must include lots and lots of 70's bands, none of which sounded the same (that was the beauty of it actually). Thus, "metal" (a term first used to refer to Led ZEP!!) is based on diverse sounds and remains as a development on those diverse sounds. Capische?

Not necessarily. Led Zeppelin had certain elements of metal in their songs that developed into metal as we know it today. If you want to say every band that they ever influenced is metal, then there would be no such thing as rock music, it would all be metal..

BTW- saying I don't have a clue abuot metal is rather silly because I was a heavy metal fan before you were born, and I'm not exaggerating. I've paid my dues. I've been around.

Heh. You are not necessarily the clueless one, the guy who claimed that extreme metal is not metal is..

All those points are only your opinion, and you're more than entitled to that.

Yes, aside from that they do not play metal. That is objective fact.

Apparently you've never heard "On Your Feet or On Your Knees", the ultimate distortion filled live killer of the 70's. Scraping guitars on stage, drum solos with chains instead of sticks, Harleys, lots of dark imagery, fast guitar work.....give me a break!

"Dark" imagery =/= metal. Distortion =/= metal. You can find both in abundance in Industrial music.. is that metal? Hell, is mallcore?

Hence, I've dissed people for less than that comment. People that say such things just don't *get them*, and it's no surprise, as BOC are beyond the norm, clearly intellectually beyond the reach of those who can't handle the pace. FYI, they practically invented dark poetic lyrics as a means of metallic imagery, and every band you like tips their hat to that philosophy.

Heh. So you think the band is "intellectual" and "darkly poetic" and this makes them metal? Screw that.

Shall I give you a history lesson?

They were called "The foremost exponent of US heavy metal" by the Encylopedia of Rock in 1976.

Here's some quotes from album reviews for you:
[font=Arial,Helvetica]"...Screaming perditious hell fire and brimstone guitar slashing feedback stentority rooted in the sixth demensional afterworld of heavy metal, of which Blue Öyster Cult now holds the champion's belt" [/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica]-Arthur Levy, Zoo World (1973)[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]"I still consider Agents of Fortune to be perhaps the greatest Heavy Metal album of all time, mainly for its intelligence."
[font=Arial,Helvetica]- Xavier Russell, Kerrang! (recently stated) (Fiskare: That's not even a very heavy album by BOC standards!)[/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica]"They're the only metal maniacs I go back to see again and again. It's cause they're hot and musical at the same time, ravaging the ranks with splendiferous riffs complemented by teasingly tuneful tidbits and technological tremors"
[font=Arial,Helvetica]- Michael Davis, Creem[/font]

"Holy Concept album from hell! For thinking man's metal, no one outdoes Blue Öyster Cult."
[font=Arial,Helvetica]- Del James, Rip[/font]

Naturally, there's dozens of other quotes. Sure, by today's standards, they are not as heavy, but the better bands are clearly influenced by them with more distortion and speed.

Reviews mean nothing. You know how many hundred reviews I could pull up that claim Limp Bizkit play metal?

And yes, they are influential. So? Finntroll are influenced by Polka. Does this mean that Polka is a subgenre of metal? I think not.

Like I said, once metal, always metal, but then I'm a purist. You're a newbie on the block, so you only know what's new,and yuo can't help that. You might not think BOC, VH, Budgie, UHeep, UFO, MSG, Sabbath, Scorps etc are very heavy, but you must show respect, if nothing else, because all the stuff you like is just a rehash of their tricks, sounds and ideas, done with modern production. I agree, times have changed, but the genre is timeless.[/font][/font]

Bloody hell. I like most of those bands. I listen to Classical, for God's sake.. "heavy" does not even enter into the equation for whether I listen something or not. Considering that metal was at its most popular in the early 80s, I could hardly "only know what is new".. since it's so much easier to find old stuff anyway, most of the time. And of course classic rock/hard rock can be found just about anywhere, even the 50 year old stuff..