Messianic Judaism

ContraMundum · Oct 9, 2011

Huram Abi said:
Right... the Eucharist is based on the funery rites of the cult of Osiris where it is believed that eating the flesh of a god grants godhood or godlike qualities.

For the Greeks, this is envisioned as Ambrosia, removing the connotations of cannibalism.

I haven't laughed this hard since I read Hislop's "The Two Babylons".

Get this out of a Jack Chick tract, did we?

Gosh, if we want to indict the Thanksgiving as "pagan" then surely we have to throw out the Torah as well. It's loaded with Egyptian religious ideals like sacrifices to appease one's god, jugement and eternal life, a priestly caste, a religious calendar etc. All found in Egypt before Moses (did the Jews merely change the common religion into a monotheistic version, as the anthropologists tell us??) Even the moral law has a predecessor in the Code of Hammurabi.

Better re-think your understanding of religion, God and how He deals with us all. Or not. I don't care.

yedida · Oct 9, 2011

Huram Abi said:
Pointing to Baba Kamma 38a and claiming it says that following the 7 Noachide Laws makes a Gentile higher than the High Priest of Israel.

Anyone who has read it, is knowledgable that it clearly doesn't say that. If he hasn't read it, then how can he speak on it? Therefore, whether he has or has not read it, there is deceit in his intent.

Okay, you're talking about CupidDave? At first I thought it was Davri that you were saying was being dishonest. I misunderstood the "this guy" was someone other than Devri.

yedida · Oct 9, 2011

ContraMundum said:
Yes, I agree. It's revolting and vile to think of a Jewish kiddush rite during the Seder as a "pagan" rite of some kind. While I am not all that surprised, it is a new low in the latest outrageous claim to come out of this forum. It should be reportable and banned.

Contra, did you note that it was a new person and if I'm not mistaken, from someone not even flying the MJ icon.

Huram Abi · Oct 9, 2011

ContraMundum said:
I haven't laughed this hard since I read Hislop's "The Two Babylons".

Get this out of a Jack Chick tract, did we?

Gosh, if we want to indict the Thanksgiving as "pagan" then surely we have to throw out the Torah as well. It's loaded with Egyptian religious ideals like sacrifices to appease one's god, jugement and eternal life, a priestly caste, a religious calendar etc. All found in Egypt before Moses (did the Jews merely change the common religion into a monotheistic version, as the anthropologists tell us??) Even the moral law has a predecessor in the Code of Hammurabi.

Better re-think your understanding of religion, God and how He deals with us all. Or not. I don't care.

Thanks for your thoughts. I'll archive it under "opinion."

I'll make an assessment of your reading comprehension skills and critical thinking ability from some other post and note this as a "practice swing."

I re-think religion all the time. You?

ContraMundum · Oct 9, 2011

Huram Abi said:
Thanks for your thoughts. I'll archive it under "opinion."

Try sourcing it under "facts" instead. You might get something worth filing in the grey matter database you were born with.

I'll make an assessment of your reading comprehension skills and critical thinking ability from some other post and note this as a "practice swing."

Well, I only made it to second grade, and language itself is my second language. Unfortunately, I have to get a secretary to type for me when I desire to post, as I am unable to keep the drool from hitting the keyboard when I attempt to synchronize both hands and my brain when composing a thought.

I re-think religion all the time. You?

Yes. Hence the comment to your rather poorly cogitated post regarding religion.

ContraMundum · Oct 9, 2011

yedida said:
Contra, did you note that it was a new person and if I'm not mistaken, from someone not even flying the MJ icon.

No, I didn't notice that.

Huram Abi · Oct 9, 2011

ContraMundum said:
Yes. Hence the comment to your rather poorly cogitated post regarding religion.

What post was that?

ContraMundum · Oct 9, 2011

Huram Abi said:
What post was that?

The post I responded to initially, obviously.
Have you not followed this?

Huram Abi · Oct 9, 2011

ContraMundum said:
The post I responded to initially, obviously.
Have you not followed this?

The post you responded to initially did not address what I said. Seemed to be more of a pre-conceived position in which you projected your fears of anti-catholic rhetoric and other of your own personal past experiences that had nothing to do with me.

Maybe you should have asked me to clarify before you pounced?

I never once suggested that the passover is pagan in origin.

yedida · Oct 9, 2011

ContraMundum said:
No, I didn't notice that.

yep, we've had 4 in the last 2 days, about 2days ago, blueroot - non-denom (I think, but don't quote me, certainly not MJ), today (maybe yesterday as well) Devri - MJ, Huram Abi - seeker, CupidDave - Christiian.
I can't remember which one of these, but I'm pretty sure it was one of them that made the statement you were upset about.

ContraMundum · Oct 9, 2011

Huram Abi said:
The post you responded to initially did not address what I said. Seemed to be more of a pre-conceived position in which you projected your fears of anti-catholic rhetoric and other of your own personal past experiences that had nothing to do with me.

Maybe you should have asked me to clarify before you pounced?

I never once suggested that the passover is pagan in origin.

So, did you or did you not pontificate that:

"... the Eucharist is based on the funery rites of the cult of Osiris where it is believed that eating the flesh of a god grants godhood or godlike qualities.

For the Greeks, this is envisioned as Ambrosia, removing the connotations of cannibalism."

Which is what I responded to.

ContraMundum · Oct 9, 2011

yedida said:
yep, we've had 4 in the last 2 days, about 2days ago, blueroot - non-denom (I think, but don't quote me, certainly not MJ), today (maybe yesterday as well) Devri - MJ, Huram Abi - seeker, CupidDave - Christiian.
I can't remember which one of these, but I'm pretty sure it was one of them that made the statement you were upset about.

My response was to Vis, who stated:

"Elijah never did a Eucharistic cup nor did Yeshua institute or sanction it. You may think this is just semantics, but it is more than a cultural difference, it is the difference between pagan ritual that in later years took on a "chirstian garb", and a prophecy of scripture in the Judaism faith brought forth every Passover Seder.."

Which both Heber and I objected to.

Anyway, I am bored with this, as I think the thread has moved past my protests. My ADD is kicking in, or whatever excuse I can think of. I need to go watch a rugby match or something. The World Cup is on.

yedida · Oct 9, 2011

ContraMundum said:
My response was to Vis, who stated:

"Elijah never did a Eucharistic cup nor did Yeshua institute or sanction it. You may think this is just semantics, but it is more than a cultural difference, it is the difference between pagan ritual that in later years took on a "chirstian garb", and a prophecy of scripture in the Judaism faith brought forth every Passover Seder.."

Which both Heber and I objected to.

Anyway, I am bored with this, as I think the thread has moved past my protests. My ADD is kicking in, or whatever excuse I can think of. I need to go watch a rugby match or something. The World Cup is on.

Sorry, my mistake!!
I thought the world cup was about 4-6 weeks ago? What was I watching then, if it wasn't the world cup????

Huram Abi · Oct 9, 2011

ContraMundum said:
So, did you or did you not pontificate that:

"... the Eucharist is based on the funery rites of the cult of Osiris where it is believed that eating the flesh of a god grants godhood or godlike qualities.

For the Greeks, this is envisioned as Ambrosia, removing the connotations of cannibalism."

Which is what I responded to.

Yep. What does that have to do with the Jewish Sedar, however?

visionary · Oct 9, 2011

ContraMundum said:
So, did you or did you not pontificate that:

"... the Eucharist is based on the funery rites of the cult of Osiris where it is believed that eating the flesh of a god grants godhood or godlike qualities.

For the Greeks, this is envisioned as Ambrosia, removing the connotations of cannibalism."

Which is what I responded to.

Eucharist and the Mass originated in the practices of the Persian Mithraism and the scholars who believe and studied it are but a few examples like Dieterich, H. T. Holtzmann, Pfleiderer, Robertson, etc.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Sacrifice of the Mass

Devri · Oct 9, 2011

yedida said:
Okay, you're talking about CupidDave? At first I thought it was Davri that you were saying was being dishonest. I misunderstood the "this guy" was someone other than Devri.

No worries...Cupid Dave is from MySpace RnP forums and his reputation there is...well...it's established.

He doesn't like me so I try to love him to death

Devri · Oct 9, 2011

yedida said:
yep, we've had 4 in the last 2 days, about 2days ago, blueroot - non-denom (I think, but don't quote me, certainly not MJ), today (maybe yesterday as well) Devri - MJ, Huram Abi - seeker, CupidDave - Christiian.
I can't remember which one of these, but I'm pretty sure it was one of them that made the statement you were upset about.

I will identify myself. I was the one who was talking about converting to Messianic. I now understand that I am being transformed. So, that horse is dead.

What has happened is that MySpace forums are being shut down so all the RnP'ers are looking for a place to land.

I only know of Cupid Dave so far that has landed here but he is a very difficult character to deal with.

I am a gentle servant of Yeshua and hope that we did not get off to a rocky start. I am very new into all this but VERY happy to be where I am so I am reading, listening and learning. If I appear ignorant, it is probably because I am so understand my position and help me develop a deeper relationship with Yeshua through this new way of teaching. Thanks

Huram Abi · Oct 9, 2011

He said that his "congregation" supports that Jesus was Elijah returned?

Are you in that group he's talking about, Devri? Is that what the "RnP'ers" believe?

yedida · Oct 9, 2011

Devri said:
I will identify myself. I was the one who was talking about converting to Messianic. I now understand that I am being transformed. So, that horse is dead.

What has happened is that MySpace forums are being shut down so all the RnP'ers are looking for a place to land.

I only know of Cupid Dave so far that has landed here but he is a very difficult character to deal with.

I am a gentle servant of Yeshua and hope that we did not get off to a rocky start. I am very new into all this but VERY happy to be where I am so I am reading, listening and learning. If I appear ignorant, it is probably because I am so understand my position and help me develop a deeper relationship with Yeshua through this new way of teaching. Thanks

I didn't think it was you. (I remembered you were the converting person and noticed you were paying attention.) I was basically listing off that we've had 4 newbies in about 2 days!! That's a lot in this little forum!!
We are very happy to have new MJ/Gs join us. And don't worry about maybe not knowing so much. We were all there once. (Shoot, I only learned a few months ago that I'm not supposed to blow out the Shabbat candles. I'd been doing that for 7 years!) Stick around, it won't last, that's for sure. We all (including you) have much to share and much to learn.
Again, we are very happy to have you here.

Devri · Oct 9, 2011

Huram Abi said:
He said that his "congregation" supports that Jesus was Elijah returned?

Are you in that group he's talking about, Devri? Is that what the "RnP'ers" believe?

Absolutely not! He is often delusional and at times frightening in his thoughts.

The RnP that was mentioned is merely the Religion and Philosophy forums found at MySpace where there is a hodge podge of everything. He does not have a "congregation" there, in fact most people try to avoid him.

I love him because it is commanded by God that we love each other. Other than that...I don't have ANY association with Dave.

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