Messianic Jews - bridge between Jews and Christians...

[ShirChadash]

QFT??

I am not up on all this computer lingo....

quoted for truth

 

[visionary]

26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

 

[visionary]

When a gentile looks at what they would determine as a "spiritual jew" they would identify those who follow Mount Sinai and are not of Jewish blood. It is not the blood line that made them think they are "spiritual Jews", it is the characteristics of faith that made them like a Mount Sinai believer. As far as MJ goes, to the rest of Christianity, they often think that all who are MJ are Messianic Jews, when the truth is that most are gentiles. What made them think that they were Jews was their faith. In that sense alone, could you consider a MJ, a "spiritual jew" Let's make one thing very clear, this does not give them rights to citizenship in Israel, it does not make them orthodox Jews, or Jews in any sense of the recognized Judaism of today. What it is .. is a neither christian or Jew.. yet having aspects of having both.

 

[ChavaK]

26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Thanks, Vis!

 

[ChavaK]

As far as MJ goes, to the rest of Christianity, they often think that all who are MJ are Messianic Jews, when the truth is that most are gentiles. What made them think that they were Jews was their faith.

Hmm, interesting. So are they thinking that Messianics are Jews because
of their faith, or could it also be because of external appearances (many, but not all of course) Messianics mimic how an observant Jew would dress?

I can't imagine that a gentile would think another gentile would be a
Jew because so many people think Judaism is a "race"...but then again
given that most non-Jews are not aware of how Jews define "who is
a Jew", the confusion is understandable..

 

[visionary]

Hmm, interesting. So are they thinking that Messianics are Jews because
of their faith, or could it also be because of external appearances (many, but not all of course) Messianics mimic how an observant Jew would dress?

I can't imagine that a gentile would think another gentile would be a
Jew because so many people think Judaism is a "race"...but then again
given that most non-Jews are not aware of how Jews define "who is
a Jew", the confusion is understandable..
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ain't that the truth....

 

[2 King]

Make sure you clarify that you are not speaking of bloodlines and the physical tribal lineage here. Believing in Christ makes you a believer in the One True God of Israel. It does not make you an Israelite, nor a Jew by blood. It gives you a faith in the God of Israel. You can join the commonwealth of Israel.

I know you are taking a scripture...

Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

BUT

A "spiritual Jew" can be anyone who has taken on the faith and lives it out like Yeshua. It is one of the greatest phenomenons when a gentile is more "Jewish" in his/her faith because they are a believer in the One True God of Israel, and have jointed the commonwealth of this faith. The walk and talk reflects this change. It is not judiazing, as in works work but walking in the spirit of the truth given at Mount Sinai and epitomized by Yeshua and lived from within by the grace of the Holy Spirit..

Hi Visionary,

I understand where you're coming from, I, on the other hand, am not sure you understand where I'm coming from...

"Well then, has God failed to fulfill his promise to Israel? No, for not all who are born into the nation of Israel are truly members of God's people!"- Romans 9:6 NLT

God's Word in the form of beautiful covenant promises came to Abraham. Covenant people, the true children of Abraham, are not just his biological descendants. They are all those who trust in God and in what Jesus Christ has done for them.

"The real children of Abraham, then, are those who put their faith in God."- Galatians 3:7

"For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spririt. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."- Romans 28,29

To be a jew meant you were in God's family, an heir to all His promises. Yet Paul made it clear that membership in God's family is based on internal, not external, qualities. All whose hearts are right with God are true Jews-that is, part of God's family. Attending church or being baptized, confirmed, or accepted for membership is not enough, just as submitting to circumcision was not enough for the Jews. God desires our heartfelt devotion and obedience.

"Therefore, change your hearts and stop being stubborn."- Deuteronomy 10:16

"O people of Judah and Jerusalem, surrender your pride and power. Change your hearts before the LORD,...."- Jeremiah 4:4

The scriptures speak for themselves

Have a nice day.

 

[visionary]

Vine of David Newly available for download: Paul Philip Levertoff's 1940 commentary on Matthew from a Messianic Jewish perspective. Excerpt:

"So in the New Testament we have people writing in one language, but thinking in another; and continually straining the texture of the Greek tongue in an attempt to make it express the Hebrew turns of thought with which their minds were filled."

 

[2 King]

<Edit>---This post was deleted

 

[visionary]

If perspective is the problem, then all is wrong except the Bible, because it is inspired. That means all commentaries are wrong and all human thoughts about the Bible are worthlessness and Foolishness.

except where inspiration steps in and brings harmony between God and the writtings of man with Holy Scripture.

 

[PT Calvinist]

except where inspiration steps in and brings harmony between God and the writtings of man with Holy Scripture.

We are now worthy in the sight of God, making Visonary's statement truth.

 

[Heber]

except where inspiration steps in and brings harmony between God and the writtings of man with Holy Scripture.

Can you unpack this a bit Vis.? I am thinking that we are called to reconcile man to G_d and not G_d to man; your comment could be taken as meaning the latter, by some.

 

[visionary]

Can you unpack this a bit Vis.? I am thinking that we are called to reconcile man to G_d and not G_d to man; your comment could be taken as meaning the latter, by some.

If you are reading some commentary on biblical themes and God inspires you to see what the author got a glimpse of and see the inspiration coming from and in the writtings of Holy Scripture. ... and it reconciles another piece of our understanding to God's way of seeing.. then there is spiritual wisdom from God gained.

 

[Heber]

Yep, OK! Thanks.

 

[christianmomof3]

I thank God that all are "True Jews" who believe in Christ.

Gentiles are not Jews no matter what spiritualizing away one might attempt because of one's faith.

No gentile is ever a Jew in any way, without proper conversion to an established and legitimate, recognized branch of Judaism.

exactly

But as far as MJs being a bridge between Jews and Christians, it will never happen.
Christians may or may not view MJs as being "Christian", but for sure Jews will
never accept MJs as either they are 1) gentile (of which there is no problem other
than the fact is they are not part of b'nai Yisrael) or 2) halachaly Jewish, in which
case we have an issue with what they believe, and as a general statement do not
accept them into the Jewish community.

While it might sound like a nice thing that MJs will be a bridge, in reality it will never
happen....

Probably not, but you never know what the Lord will do.
I stand as an outsider - one in your category 2, I suppose, being Jewish and now being a born again Christian.
I have not ever tried to be a bridge to the Jewish community, but I do try to share Christ with others - both Jew and gentile.
I think the Lord can use all of us if we give ourselves to Him and He will use us as He pleases to do His will.

 

[PT Calvinist]

Could they be now counted as Scismatic?

 

[johnd]

Do you need to refreshen your avatar? It's kind of spotty...

Here's one:

 

[Heber]

I thought it was because he felt caged in!

 

[PT Calvinist]

I thought it was because he felt caged in!

He who laughs last hasn't understood the joke!

 

[Heber]

He who laughs last hasn't understood the joke!

I'm sure you'll get round to laughing soon, don't worry!!!!


It's the background to the figure that looks like a cage from which it is trying to escape...