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Acts 11:26
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch. (Peter said)
1 Peter 4:16
However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. (Peter said)
Ummmm, question.
MD are you saying that "Christian" in Acts 11:26 and also Peter's use of "Christian" as cited really don't mean that but rather the "chrestian" thing you related meaning good or mannerly? Also, how do you factually link Ignatius to being the first to use the term "Christian"? My little Bible searcher won't even turn up the name "Ignatius".
Here is a nice quote of Ignatius. Ignatius was not a Jew. Ignatius had more to say about Jews, the Sabbath and Torah authority, if only implied. He also is credited as the first to use the term "katolikos", IIRC. I do not consider him as a follower of the original Messianic Jewish faith, since he is making such a fast departure from it.
Ignatius Bishop of Antioch (98-117A.D.) Epistle to the Magnesians
For if we are still practicing Judaism, we admit that we have not received Gods favor it is wrong to talk about Jesus Christ and live like Jews. For Christianity did not believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity.
Have to get into water rights hearings now, probably will go clear into evening. I don't know why this switched fonts to this rather than the beginning font. This computer stuff! I remember the good ol' days when we had Birch bark and charcoal to write with. AAAaaaaah yes.
Excellent finds .. thank youHere are some interesting quotes from Early Greek Christian Fathers...
The Nazarenes accept Messiah in such a way that they do not cease to observe the old Law.
-Jerome, On. Is. 8:14
The Nazarenes believe that Messiah, the Son of God, was born of the Virgin Mary.
-Jerome, Letter 75 Jerome to Augustine
Matthew, also called Levi, apostle and aforetimes publican, composed a gospel of Christ at first published in Judea in Hebrew for the sake of those of the circumcision who believed, but this was afterwards translated into Greek though by what author is uncertain. The Hebrew itself has been preserved until the present day in the library at Cæsarea which Pamphilus so diligently gathered. I have also had the opportunity of having the volume described to me by the Nazarenes of Beroea, a city of Syria, who use it.
-Jerome, Lives of Illustrius Men Ch.3
The Nazarenes have no different ideas, but confess everything exactly as the Law proclaims it and in the Jewish fashion except for their belief in Christ, if you please! For they acknowledge both the resurrection of the dead and the divine creation of all things, and declare that God is one, and that his Son is Jesus Christ.
-Epiphanius of Salamis, Panarion 29.7.2
He [Philo of Alexandria] arrived during Passover and observed their customs, and how some of them kept the holy week of Passover.
Epiphanius of Salamis, Panarion 29.5.1
Ignatius of Antioch was the first to use the word Christian, the first to refer to followers of the Messiah as Christians. It seems from history that around the time of Ignatius a group broke off of the Nazarenes and started calling themselves Christians and they started to teach against keeping Torah. This was after the Death of the Apostles..
And that was probably the last time period that Judaism had a sect called Christians.Acts 11:26
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch. (Peter said)
1 Peter 4:16
However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. (Peter said)
Acts 11:26
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch. (Peter said)
1 Peter 4:16
However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. (Peter said)
And that was probably the last time period that Judaism had a sect called Christians.
@visionary: Did Judaism ever have a sect called Christians?
@MikhaelDavid: Tacitus also says "Chrestian" rather than "Christian". Does this mean that he wasn't referring to the Christians when he said that "Chrestian" believed that "Chrestus" (always understood to refer to "Christos") was God? Tacitus wrote in the beginning of the second Century, and when he heard Greek, would it not have been the case that η (eta) and ι (iota) sounded the same already? If they were heard the same, would it surprise anyone if χριστιανος and χρηστιανος were interchanged? What do you make of these issues? (I realize that in Latin there's a difference between and [e], but the real issue is the Greek original sounds, which could have been confused before their transcription into Latin.) It's clear that Tacitus was writing about Christians and Christ, whether he wrote it as Chrestiani and Chrestus or otherwise.
as the book of Acts was about the travels and mostly the missionary work of Paul, I would say that it was a sect of Judaism [a sect that had a faith in Yeshua as the Messiah] which he was preaching in the synagogue every sabbath... I do not believe we shoudl think or see it any other way.. even though it has been presented differently by sunday keepers who have been representing Christians since around 321....because of the flood of gentiles into the synagogue and later into their own home churches, and congregations....into the faith, which cause the people of Antioch to nick name them as such...@visionary: Did Judaism ever have a sect called Christians?
@MikhaelDavid: Tacitus also says "Chrestian" rather than "Christian". Does this mean that he wasn't referring to the Christians when he said that "Chrestian" believed that "Chrestus" (always understood to refer to "Christos") was God? Tacitus wrote in the beginning of the second Century, and when he heard Greek, would it not have been the case that η (eta) and ι (iota) sounded the same already? If they were heard the same, would it surprise anyone if χριστιανος and χρηστιανος were interchanged? What do you make of these issues? (I realize that in Latin there's a difference between and [e], but the real issue is the Greek original sounds, which could have been confused before their transcription into Latin.) It's clear that Tacitus was writing about Christians and Christ, whether he wrote it as Chrestiani and Chrestus or otherwise.
It sure would be great if you could produce the document in Aramaic using the word Nazarene.Yonah,
I have Tacitus work on my shelf... First off, He wrote the Annals in the 2nd Century in the year 116 A.D around the time Ignatius had already used the term Christian.. Ignatius died in 117 A.D.
Secondly, Tactius uses the word Chrestian instead of Christian in the work which he stated was used by the populace which were not the believers but surrounding pagans.. "Quote: Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite punishments on a class hated for their disgraceful acts, called Chrestians by the populace"
Thirdly, I have already proven by Concordance what the Greek words mean and that they are not interchangeable...
Fourthly, I mentioned the Aramaic manuscripts.. Why? Because I am not a Greek Primacist... I happen to believe that the NT was written in Aramaic which is called Aramaic Primacy... The oldest Aramaic uses Nazarene.. I only quoted the Greek to prove that the earliest Greek manuscripts did not say Christian either...
It sure would be great if you could produce the document in Aramaic using the word Nazarene.
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