Messianic History

The following comes from Talmud Shabbat 116A.

In this discussion several rabbis are discussing when a Torah scroll can be burned if damaged or defiled.The general consensus is that even in scrolls that have damaged or blank spaces must not be burned.

Then the topic comes around to the scrolls or the GILYON or blank spaces in the Books (plural) of the Minim or (Nazarene heretics) and how they should be handled. The word GILYON means gospel or good tidings.So the issue here is the places in the gospels (BOOKS OF THE MINIM) that contain the Divine Name. HOW SHOULD THOSE HERETICAL BOOKS BE HANDELED? SHOULD THEY BE BURNED?

In verse 16 below one rabbi asks if their Torah scrolls with the Divine or Sacred Name are the issue. Another answers NO. He is referring to the gospel (blank spaces) of the MINIM. In other words the gospel books not the Torah scrolls. As you can see below, one rabbi says that on a weekday when its not Shabbat we must get the GOSPEL BOOKS and remove the DIVINE NAMES before we burn the books and another who disagrees with him and states that those books are such trash that he would burn them even without REMOVING THE DIVINE NAMES!!!!!! even if he had to take the books to a heathen temple should a Nazarene follow and chase him to get the gospels back.

Though Talmud is not scripture, it is a wonderful historical confirmation of what many of us already knew in our spirits ....That the original gospels or Books of The Minim [Nazarenes] DID HAVE THE DIVINE NAME!

...For if they did not contain them, why would the rabbis spend all their time deciding how to get rid of the gospels without desecrating the DIVINE NAME in them. The actual text appears below from th SONCINO TALMUD ON CD ROM:

Come and hear: The blank spaces above and below, between the sections, between the columns, at the beginning and at the end of the Scroll, defile one's hands. 13 — It may be that [when they are] together with the Scroll of the Law they are different.

14 Come and hear: The blank spaces
15 and the Books of the Minim
16 may not be saved from a fire, but they must be burnt in their place, they and the Divine Names occurring in them. Now surely it means the blank portions of a Scroll of the Law? No: the blank spaces in the Books of Minim. Seeing that we may not save the Books of Minim themselves, need their blank spaces [DIVINE SACRED NAMES] be stated? — This is its meaning: And the Books of Minim are like blank spaces.
It was stated in the text: The blank spaces and the Books of the Minim, we may not save them from a fire. R. Jose said: On weekdays one must cut out the Divine Names which they contain, hide them,
17 and burn the rest. R. Tarfon said: May I bury my son if I would not burn them together with their Divine Names if they came to my hand. For even if one pursued me
18 to slay me, or a snake pursued me to bite me, I would enter a heathen Temple [for refuge], but not the houses of these [people], for the latter know (of God] yet deny [Him], whereas the former are ignorant and deny [Him], and of them the Writ saith, and behind the doors and the posts hast thou set up thy memorial.
19 R. Ishmael said: [One can reason] a minori: If in order to make peace between man and wife the Torah decreed, Let my Name, written in sanctity, be blotted out in water,
20 these, who stir up jealousy, enmity, and wrath between Israel and their Father in Heaven, how much more so;
21 and of them David said, Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? And am I not grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate then with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
22 And just as we may not rescue them from a fire, so may we not rescue them from a collapse [of debris] or from water or from anything that may destroy them.
R. Joseph b. Hanin asked R. Abbahu: As for the Books of Be Abedan [Ebionites},
23 may we save them from a fire or not? — Yes and No, and he was uncertain about the matter.
24 Rab would not enter a Be Abedan, and certainly not a Be Nizrefe [HOUSE OF NAZARENES];
25 Samuel would not enter a Be Nizrefe[HOUSE OF NAZARENES], yet he would enter a Be Abedan [HOUSE OF EBIONITES]. Raba was asked: Why did you not attend at the Be Abedan? A certain palm-tree stands in the way, replied he, and it is difficult for me [to pass it].
26 Then we will remove it? — Its spot will present difficulties to me.
27 Mar b. Joseph said: I am one of them
28 and do not fear them. On one occasion he went there, [and] they wanted to harm him.

Footnotes
15) Jast. s.v. iuhkd translates, the gospels, though observing that here it is understood as blanks. V. Herford, R.T., ‘Christianity in the Talmud’, p. 155 n. (21) Not only do they themselves go astray from God, but lead many others astray from Him. (25) hprmb hc; a meeting place of the Nazarenes, Jewish Christians, where local matters were discussed and religious debates were held. (Levy). [Ginzberg, MGWJ LXXVIII, p. 23 regards it as the name of a Persian house of worship meaning the Asylum of Helplessness]. 29) Uncensored text adds: R. Meir called it (the Gospel) ‘Awen Gilyon, the falsehood of blank Paper; R. Johanan called it ‘Awon Gilyon, the sin of etc. On the whole passage v. Herford, op. cit., pp. 161-171.

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visionary said:

Messianic Judaism and the Early Church
Messianic believers often cite the fact that Jesus and all his disciples were originally Jewish. They argue that Gentiles had a place within the the Jewish context of the faith, evidenced by the recorded biblical debate of having the new Gentile converts follow Jewish law and the decision by the Jerusalem Council to forego the requirement of proslyte conversion for Gentiles to be included in the faith.

Messianics further argue that as a result of persecution, the Early Church adopted a minimalist perspective to win converts so as to survive, and in so doing, had inadvertently minimized the importance of converts following Apostolic law, and the importance of the Jewishness of the faith, evidenced by the reducing of the Passover Seder to a simple service of flat bread and wine, removal of the understanding of mikvah (baptism) in conversions, and by the later adoption of pagan customs in the worship practices of the new adherents. They argue that followers of Christianity were erroneously anti-semetic in their approach to Judaism, well before Constatine came to power and legalized the approach of the Gentilized church, and cementing the Jewish-Christian split.

http://experts.about.com/e/m/me/messianic_judaism.htm

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