Messianic "Blessing"

[JewishHeart]

Just wanted to know as a messianic your opinion of the Toronto Blessing. What did you think of their "Love Israel" conference? What did you think of the Brownsville Revival's "Messianic Jewish Conference."?

(Am pro-Toronto BTW).

 

[muffler dragon]

Just wanted to know as a messianic your opinion of the Toronto Blessing. What did you think of their "Love Israel" conference? What did you think of the Brownsville Revival's "Messianic Jewish Conference."?

(Am pro-Toronto BTW).

If I may interject on it simply as a believer, I am skeptical. I find there to be a great deal of things that would be considered un-biblical. Futhermore, I am not into two great teachings of decline for the Church: prosperity Christianity and Word-Faith.

Just my $0.02.

 

[Toney]

Here is .02 more: Avodah zarah.

 

[JewishHeart]

Why would you say it is Avodah Zara? For instance, I could tell you a plethora of testimonies where people had experiences with God in Toronto and are now radically pursuing after God, desiring holiness, and even discovering Jewish Roots.

 

[JewishHeart]

My life was deeply touched by the Toronto Blessing in many ways....

1.) I understood the presence of God ( and I don't mean manifestations).
2.) It helped me understand the Father Heart of God.
3.) It helped me understand the love of God.
4.) It helped me understand spiritual hunger.
5.) It was Brownsville where I discovered Jewish Roots and messianic Judaism.
6.) It was Brownsville (Pensacola) where I met my wife.
7.) Brownsville helped me gain a deeper passion for souls and evangelism.
8.) I created friendships for life at Brownsville.
9.) It was at a Toronto meeting in which I tasted the hot oil of the Holy Spirit.
10.) It was at Brownsville that I fell deeper in love with Yeshua.
11.) At Brownsville I received my calling to Israel.
12.) At Brownsville I saw lives changed every night before my eyes. I saw drug addicts get free. I saw prostitutes come to Yeshua and get clean. I saw Yeshua revealed to both Jewish people and Buddhists. IT WAS AWESOME !!!! The moment you wipe off the tears of your eyes from one testimony, there is another... you are basically constantly crying and in amazement of the goodness and faithfulness of God.

 

[Toney]

Why would you say it is Avodah Zara? For instance, I could tell you a plethora of testimonies where people had experiences with God in Toronto and are now radically pursuing after God, desiring holiness, and even discovering Jewish Roots.

You asked for opinions and I gave one. I don't wish to defend it except to say Praise the L-rd, who makes eggs from omelettes.

Shalom

 

[JewishHeart]

For those of you who don't know, avodah ( work or worship) zara (foreign or strange)

in other words worshiping strange gods.

 

[JewishHeart]

I respect that opinion Toney, I just wanted to know how you drew that conclusion... so I threw some testimonies in for you to make it challenging.

 

[Toney]

JH,

I believe you were posting so quickly that you did not notice my response. However, your testimonies, including your own, are touching and I wish you well.

G-d bless you,
Toney

 

[simchat_torah]

I am torn on the issue, but I will also have to conclude Avodah Zarah.

Displays of wonder do not necessarily indicate G-d is at work.

shalom,
yafet

 

[JewishHeart]

Displays of wonder do not necessarily indicate G-d is at work.- ST

I agree, but changed lives do.

 

[simchat_torah]

I have seen many a men changed for seemingly 'good' by Islam.

It depends on what the change is, JH.

 

[rooster]

I have heard and read plenty of detractors about the Toronto blessing and i share dragons sentiments about those teachings. I had experianced the laugther but at the same time i had somebody trying to push me over to get me "slain"(but i was not possible since i was thick necked and incredibly round of body).
I have had healing too but that was not when some one of those toronto preachers was praying over me but when i was sitting in my chair at home with my leg on my table suffering from a cracking headache, fever and sore throat. I was praying (i think) and a great trembling came over me and i was healed. Totally.
But are these things i base my faith on. Nope. what makes me thirst after God is bible study, prayer and meditating on him and his word.


Anyway about Toronto, maybe it was something akin to the Godless but gifted Balaam (a talking donkey is always cool though) although it could always be a great outpouring. Or maybe it was both, a true working of God at the centre with various false signs and miracles of the devil all around it trying to corrupt the work of God.

But for someone to say avodah zarah is a very strong statement indeed. I wonder if you would care to share a little more.

 

[Toney]

I have heard and read plenty of detractors about the Toronto blessing ...

But for someone to say avodah zarah is a very strong statement indeed. I wonder if you would care to share a little more.

Shalom Rooster,

Since the author of the OP accepted my opinion, and that it all it is – not an allegation – I prefer to limit my response.

First, I don’t think that this is the proper forum for such flammable discussion. To me, it seems a better fit to a Protestant Charismatic backdrop. If the TB is not of G-d, it is their movement which is threatened by it, not MJ.

Secondly, I refrain (or at least try to refrain) from entering into debate about “correct belief” among people of G-d. In other words, I feel that neo-paganism is a larger threat to achieving holiness than are pagan ‘influences’ in this or that religion and that the biggest threat, one clearly Satanic, is New Age philosophy. So, if people want to roll about the Toronto Airport giggling, I don’t have a problem with it as long as TSA does not.

Finally, let me conclude with John Wesley on religious enthusiasm: “…a religious madness arising from some falsely imagined influence or inspiration from God; at least from imputing something to God which ought not to be imputed to Him, or expecting something from God which ought not to be expected from Him.”

 

[rooster]

Indeed, enthusiasm and emotions can be an interesting topic for discussion concerning contemporary church experiance.
Yes and New age thought and neo gnostism can be a grave threat to the spirituality of the church today.
Oh well

Thanks for the response

 

[Flavius]

Just wanted to know as a messianic your opinion of the Toronto Blessing. What did you think of their "Love Israel" conference? What did you think of the Brownsville Revival's "Messianic Jewish Conference."?

(Am pro-Toronto BTW).

Are you talking about the Brownsville Assembly of G-d in Pensacola with that John Killpatric dude?

 

[JewishHeart]

Yes, both. I'm a graduate of Brownsville Revival School of Ministry in Pensacola.

A note on emotions :

We are made up of three parts: body, soul, and spirit.

We are to love the Lord our God with all of our hearts (emotions), all of our mind (thoughts) and all of our strength (body).

Anyways, I could go into a teaching about the word of God and emotions. There are carnal emotions and godly emotions. There are scriptures in the Psalms that tell us to be joyful, to weep, to dance, etc. All involving emotions.

How do we filter our emotions? Through the word of God.

For instance- if we can go crazy about a football game and not go crazy about Yeshua there is an ungodly unbalance of emotions.

When the Spirit of God touches somebody he touches them in all three aspects.

Body - bodily healing, shaking, falling to the floor,etc.
Soul - laughing, crying, travail, inner-healing
Spirit- salvation, repentance, revelation, etc.

Basically when the presence of God shows up it touches us in our areas of need. This is why I hear many testimonies in Toronto of people laughing and it brings them inner-healing from damaged ungodly emotions.

This is why rooster shook under the power of God when he was healed.

This is why physically the priests in 1 Chronicles 7 were not able to stand to minister due to the cloud of God's shekina.

 

[ShirChadash]

I am a "Full Gospel"/Charismatic, whatever one may wish to term it, Believer. And no, I do not agree with nor hold valid much in the Toronto Blessing.

 

[muffler dragon]

With all due respect, JewishHeart, I believe that you are travering precarious ground with your high regard for emotion.

Please note that since I am not messianic, I cannot debate this thought with you. I have simply stated before how I felt in response to your OP.

I feel that it is wonderful that you have found something so enjoyable. But I want you to realize that it is just as much an honest assessment of those who are wary or disapproving of such things that occur at Brownsville or Toronto.

Should you want to discuss this in a fuller manner, please direct me as to where we can do so and maintain forum rules. Otherwise, I will consider this issue strictly a matter of differing opinions that we both honor and respect.

I wish you a pleasant day.

 

[JewishHeart]

muffler,

thats cool, i understand and respect your opinion. but my question is do you think this movement is affecting the messianic movement? Maybe in the charismatic forum we can discuss this.