Messed up bad

[cedward1]

I was raised as a Christian, and believed that I was, for the most part. I believed that Jesus was the Son of God, and was crucified and ressurrected for my sins. I believed that having faith in Him would give me forgiveness of sins and I would go to Heaven.

So much was the extent of my faith. I went to church and prayed semi-regularly, but I had little interest in God beyond that. Eventually, my discipleship eroded, and I fell into more and more sin. I fought against sexual immorality and lust for a while, but eventually began to give in with the thought that I was forgiven and it wouldn't matter too much. I began to turn to sin to take my mind off of stress, and made excuses for why it wasn't so bad for me. I let my mind go down paths of lust and hate towards other people, and daydreamed about all kinds of things that horrify me to just to think of now.

Then I read Hebrews 10:26, which says that if we go on sinning willfully there is no sacrifice for sins. This scared me into a deep research of sin and what it means to be a Christian, and I realized how far off track I went. I then realized that my excuses were meaningless, and in terror I cried out to God for mercy. I was filled with guilt and shame, realizing for the first time that my evil was not erased with God and that I was making a mockery of Christianity.

I prayed that God would give me a new heart and a spirit of repentance, and I think He did because I cried pretty hard over the pain that I had caused Him. I feel so worthless and disgusting still, and still have doubts that I can be forgiven for my hypocricey. I have read some scary things online about hardening my heart and searing my conscience through willfully and presumptuously sinning, and I am afraid this could have happened to me.

I have been reading the Bible now, and trying to get to know Jesus for real. It feels like I am starting over from scratch here, but I still fear that it may be too late. Any advice? I was so selfish and blind. Can God still save someone who was a doubleminded, lukewarm Christian?

 

[insurchoftruth]

One of the ways to know for sure, that we are born again and therefore saved, is we try not to sin, and make an effort, on a daily basis, to follow the commandments of God, by the power and the help of the Holy Spirit in us.

It does not matter, how many times, a cat will fall into the mud or the paddle. It always tries to get out of the mud, and to clean itself, because the cat does not like the dirty mud and the paddle. It is the nature of the cat to stay clean.
So a born again christian, would not like to sin willfully or deliberately, but because the Holy Spirit lives in him, and because his hear or spirit is born again and perfect without sin, a new creation, therefore, he tries to get out of sin.

On the other hand, the pig enjoys to wallow in the mud and the puddle, and in fact, it is a pleasure for the pig, to stay there. That is his nature.
So a non believer, a person who is not born again, will actually find sin enjoyable. The is nothing in him from heaven, to convict him and make him to want to get away from sin. His heart is dead.

So do not worry, if you fall and sin sometimes, as much as you repent and try not to do it again. I believe that is what God is looking for, and not if we are perfect all the time.

Psalm 143:2, Romans 7:14-24, 8:13, James 3:2

 

[jehoiakim]

Brother I understand your concern and sympathize... many of the calvanist persuasion will try to argue that those verses pertain to someone who "was never really saved to begin with" so it doesn't apply... I disagree with them and take those verses quite seriously... however. I really believe you are fine because you are genuinely repenting. I have known a brother or two who I believe genuinely knew the Lord and walked away from him... but it has been years and they have shown no sign of repenting. I think of my cousin who still believes in God, but he hates him, he says he is an athiest, but sadly when he drinks and he drinks heavily he is clear in his views that he believes in God but hates him and wants nothing to do with him... I think those verses in Hebrews are talking not about people who fall away, but for those that know him then decide to give God the divorce papers so to speak...they no longer place their faith in God, tehy are not committed to him... we all fall,we all get sidetracked and fall away at times, some of us longer than others, but you are repentant as Peter was after he denied Jesus 3 times and I think that is proof that you are still God's. You 'backslidding' is typical of christians and I think God is using your backsliding as a way to call you back to him to be closer to him then ever.

 

[Johnnz]

Jesus' disciples didn't walk in a straight line in their relationship with Jesus. The NT church was less than perfect judging by Paul's letters. The good news is that Jesus keeps on with struggling sheep, even going out looking for those who have wandered off.

John
NZ

 

[cedward1]

Thanks for the replies. If you have ever been in this situation, you know how it feels to have the possibility that you have lost your salvation while still believing in Hell and seeing all that you might have given up by living with God for eternity.

I keep having doubts as to whether or not I am experiencing true repentance. I read all kinds of different things online about what repentance is, and prayed a lot that god would give me true repentance. But I keep feeling as though all my motives are simply to avoid the consequences of sin. It's hard to tell when you are so scared, because fear seems to trump sorrow. I'm ashamed before God, and feel so dirty and worthless. I feel like Judas, having betrayed Jesus Himself for my own pleasure.

 

[jehoiakim]

you are repentant brother... it is a whole different game, if you were not his then you wouldn't care and you wouldn't be repentant and you would be content to live in that sin, you obviously still have the conviction of the holy spirit which means he is in you!... maybe you should have a talk with a pastor... my guess is that you are being spiritually attacked to doubt again, I think it is a demonic strategy to keep you away from God. A talk with a pastor may help

 

[cedward1]

my guess is that you are being spiritually attacked to doubt again, I think it is a demonic strategy to keep you away from God.

I have suspected the same thing myself. When I was suddenly convicted of my sin, I immediately turned to God. I think the fear and trembling I experienced then was from God, as is the pain I feel when I think of how I hurt Him. After that experience, I asked God what He wanted me to do with my future, and I decided that I was going to live my life from then on only for Him.

But by the next day I was assailed by this terror, which I have been trying to fight ever since. I am finding that the fear keeps me from God, and keeps me on the internet constantly searching doctrines about sin and repentance to see if I am lost or saved. Instead of going to the Bible and God Himself. When I think of Jesus and all He did for us, I am sorry for the way I have lived. I feel that that is right. But then thoughts of Hell come to me, and fear comes back. This is stifling any other relationship I would otherwise have with Him, it seems. I know I didn't commit the unpardonable sin, but even that fear starts cropping up.

Then I wonder if I have quenched the Holy Spirit and he left me. Is it the Holy Spirit that makes me want to pursue God and to feel sorry for my sins? Wouldn't any human being want to live with God Himself and feel sorry for hurting Him? How could you read the gospel, and not want to love a God who washes His own disciples feet? And then to think that your sins put Him on a cross to die. Does it take the Holy Spirit to make you feel worthless at that thought? Or is it perhaps the Holy Spirit that makes you believe, and therefore to feel sorry?

 

[jehoiakim]

There are many who read the gospel and refuse to believe or be moved because they don't want to be... although I voiced my opinion opposing calvinism... i will give them at least one point however... election, I think John 6"25-59 is very clear especially vs 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

There are many who do not want anything to do with God because deep down even if they believe he exists they want to blame him for everything instead of hope in him, you are clearly not one of those.

 

[cedward1]

Well that may be. Having been raised in a Christian environment, I took many of these things for granted. I knew that Jesus died for my sins, but I had grown so used to the idea that I had a hard time grasping what it meant.

It wasn't until I was forced to see my sin the way God sees it that I saw the full importance of the gospel. Until then I thought "my sins are covered. I don't even need to think about it." Then with horror I was driven to God and threw myself at the foot of the cross. In the period of a few days, I lived through some of the Bible stories that had never been so real to me. I was David, Peter, Judas, Jonah, and the man who cried "have mercy on me, a sinner!" At one point, I almost felt like I was having a flashback to being David in a former life, and spontaneously prayed parts of Psalm 51.

So there may be something to the idea that God used my backsliding to bring me closer to Him.

I seem to be at a point where it's either love or fear now. Perfect love drives out fear, but the two are fighting for posession. I don't think I can go back to my complacent, apathetic lifestyle anyway. That's shattered.

The thing is, it's exactly what I prayed for just minutes before reading that passage in Hebrews. I said "Lord, deliver me from this apathy." And Wham! Next moment, I'm a wreck.

 

[jehoiakim]

Apathy is very hard to drive away, I had a crazy time, a vision where God quite literally "zapped me" initially I responded out of fear, but that is all good and now that has all been overwhelmed with and understanding of his love...it gave me a passion for God I never could have had in me unless he put it there. fear is a first step and the fear of the Lord is the begining of wisdom... a lot of people get a warped view of that because they are so fearful of the wrath of God they forget the love, or never allow themselves to feel the love because the truth is they are still trying to carry the burden of their own sin and not giving it to Christ... Love will come, as long as you continue to seek him I promise you, it will come and the fear will dissipate, you might fear the wrath of God for others, but hopefully you will realize that the wrath of God is not, an cannot be pointed at you all that he points at you is his love, he may need to correct you and convict you, but it is still under his love and mercy

 

[cedward1]

The problem is that I keep reading all kinds of theories and doctrines online, and they all seem to contradict each other. While few of them condemn me, doubts begin to creep back and the fear returns.

You say backsliding is typical of Christians? Also, do all Christians knowingly and/or deliberately sin at times? I mean, does everyone who is a Christian at least once in their life do something that they know is wrong?

Another question: for those who believe that someone who willfully sins could never have been saved to begin with, could that person later become truly saved?

 

[jehoiakim]

There are some contradictions because it is frankly difficult for men to figure out how these verses fit into their theology... sadly they feel like they can't understand God unless they put him in a box, they are in some ways right they won't be able to understand him without at least some parameters, but the truth is God will never really fit in any box.... some of our boxes to put God in are bigger than others, but they are all boxes that won't fit him none-the-less.

Sometimes Christians sin by accident, but if I told you I only sinned by accident, I'd be a liar. James 1:14 is clear "but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed." we allow ourselves to be tempted and to sin... Peter didn't deny Jesus by accident that's for sure and think about all the amazing things he went on to do! If any Christian tells you he doesn't ever sin with intent, I wouldn't trust them any further then I could throw them. He is either a liar or self-deluded either is dangerous. It is true as we mature we should learn better how to fight the desire and our desire to follow God should be stronger, but it takes a while to get there, and in reality we will never really get there while we are still in our earthly fleshly sinful matured bodies, we can fight the good fight, but we still loose battles here and there, if we didn't we'd be super-saints and they don't exist... at least not yet.

 

[Johnnz]

The problem is that I keep reading all kinds of theories and doctrines online, and they all seem to contradict each other. While few of them condemn me, doubts begin to creep back and the fear returns.

You say backsliding is typical of Christians? Also, do all Christians knowingly and/or deliberately sin at times? I mean, does everyone who is a Christian at least once in their life do something that they know is wrong?

Another question: for those who believe that someone who willfully sins could never have been saved to begin with, could that person later become truly saved?

There is a wide range of material and opinions around which can be confusing. The really good stuff comes from committed Christian teachers and scholars, not necessarily the popular authors. Gordon Fee "How to Study the Bible for all its Worth" and John Stott " Basic Christianity" are good starting points.

We are all, without exception, wide of God's life. That's why we needed such a wonderful salvation as Jesus has provided, big enough to encompass all our weaknesses and smallness. We are all in the same boat. The "good news' we live by means we aren't fearful of falling out of the favour of an all too easily offended God. That's the sad state of the pagan, not the Christian.

John
NZ

 

[prophecyistrue]

I was raised as a Christian, and believed that I was, for the most part. I believed that Jesus was the Son of God, and was crucified and ressurrected for my sins. I believed that having faith in Him would give me forgiveness of sins and I would go to Heaven.

So much was the extent of my faith. I went to church and prayed semi-regularly, but I had little interest in God beyond that. Eventually, my discipleship eroded, and I fell into more and more sin. I fought against sexual immorality and lust for a while, but eventually began to give in with the thought that I was forgiven and it wouldn't matter too much. I began to turn to sin to take my mind off of stress, and made excuses for why it wasn't so bad for me. I let my mind go down paths of lust and hate towards other people, and daydreamed about all kinds of things that horrify me to just to think of now.

Then I read Hebrews 10:26, which says that if we go on sinning willfully there is no sacrifice for sins. This scared me into a deep research of sin and what it means to be a Christian, and I realized how far off track I went. I then realized that my excuses were meaningless, and in terror I cried out to God for mercy. I was filled with guilt and shame, realizing for the first time that my evil was not erased with God and that I was making a mockery of Christianity.

I prayed that God would give me a new heart and a spirit of repentance, and I think He did because I cried pretty hard over the pain that I had caused Him. I feel so worthless and disgusting still, and still have doubts that I can be forgiven for my hypocricey. I have read some scary things online about hardening my heart and searing my conscience through willfully and presumptuously sinning, and I am afraid this could have happened to me.

I have been reading the Bible now, and trying to get to know Jesus for real. It feels like I am starting over from scratch here, but I still fear that it may be too late. Any advice? I was so selfish and blind. Can God still save someone who was a doubleminded, lukewarm Christian?

YES! watchout for satans condemnation! its the first tactic he uses for anyone who see's their error and repents.......control what you allow yourself to think about is key to freedom from lust, it always starts in the mind, if allowed to live even a short time it will produce further sin

 

[cedward1]

This is still messing with my mind, as it has been doing for about two weeks straight now. I'm spending hours at a time researching the various interpretations of the passage. It's interfering severely with the rest of my life, and with my walk with God because I can't focus on Him without thinking of this subject.

So let me get this straight, a willfull sin is either apostacy, returning to the old testament sacrifices, or an unrepentant continued sin, correct? And why do we not believe it is just any sin commited with the knowledge that it was sinful?

 

[Johnnz]

Whatever the label the fact of forgiveness is that Jesus' sacrifice dealt with all your sins on the cross. Repentance means accepting that and getting on with your life. Being already forgiven you can front up, make whatever changes are needed and get on with living with Christ.

John
NZ

 

[waves]

The mind is the battlefield. You have to subject your thoughts to Jesus Christ


2 Corinthians 10 verses 3-5

[3] For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
[4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
[5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ

Notice that we are to cast down imaginations and bring every thought to the obedience of Jesus Christ. So ensure that you are purposely thinking the right things, don't allow your mind to wander or to become empty.

Philippians 4 verse 4

[4] Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice.
[5] Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
[6] Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
[7] And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
[8] Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
[9] Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

Whenever you have a thought that is contrary to the word, use the word of God like what Jesus did when Satan tempted him so for example if a lustful thought comes to your mind say, 'Because I am in Jesus Christ I have crucified the flesh with all it's affections and lust.' You can also think this scripture in your mind as well over and over again.


Galatians 5 verse 24

[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.



If you are thinking angry hateful thoughts say 'Although I am angry I will not let the sun go down on my wrath'


Ephesians 4 verse 26

[26] Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:


If you are feeling sad, thinking depressing thoughts, say 'This is the day that the Lord has made I will rejoice and be glad in it.


Psalms 118 verse 24

1. [24] This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

I use to wake up every morning in a bad mood and what God told me to do every morning is to say 'This is the day that the Lord has made, I will rejoice and be glad in it'. About 2 weeks after this I noticed I wasn't in a bad mood as before.

The word of God is quick and powerful, sharper than any two edged sword


Hebrews 4 verse 12

[12] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

So bring all your thoughts subject to Jesus Christ, when a bad thought comes to your mind speak a bible scripture that is relevant to the thought you are having. Repeat the particular scripture as often as you need it.


There is a book by Joyce Meyer named 'Battlefield Of the Mind' which I think will be helpful to you.

 

[cedward1]

I'll have to read that book. Others have suggested Joyce Meyer before.

I fear I am not doing so good on the battlefield of the mind these days. I have sunk into a fear that I committed the unpardonable sin, and although I have had a lot of encouragement to the contrary I can't seem to get past the doubts.

 

[Johnnz]

You will succumb to that fear, or you will treat it as a lie. That choice will determine how you will see yourself and God.

John
NZ

 

[cedward1]

The problem is that I don't know if it's an irrational fear or not. I did sin willfully for quite a long time, and there are well known pastors (like John Piper) out there that believe blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is sinning willfully against the Spirit's convictions until one is no longer able to repent. None of these guys go into much detail about what that looks like, which is important to me because I frankly have no idea whether I am repentant or not. Is such a person so caught up in sin that they would refuse to change? Or is it that they would be willing to change, but God will not allow them to? I don't know. People who have messages on this subject mostly like to stress details about how terrifying it would be, and how awful a fate you would have, etc.

All I know is that I'm willing to be changed if God is willing to change me. If He's not there's nothing I can do anyway. I only wish there was a way to know if God was willing to save me. That would depend on whether or not I had committed the unpardonable sin, I guess. Depending on what the unpardonable sin actually is.

It's all a muddled mess in my mind. Fortunately, it has become so much of a mess though that a lot of the fear I used to have is lost in the confusion and frustration.