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Melt downs

Linnis

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DS has decided he's two already with all out screaming freak outs like never before. He screams so hard and so loud I had security knocking on my door because my neighbors reported his screaming.

I try and predict what he wants and I ask him to tell me since he can now or I ask and he'll say yes or not. Sometimes no matter what I do he SCREAMS. It's so loud and goes on for so long I have been putting him in his room for a few minutes or using foam ear plugs to help with the painful ear ringing yelling although I can still hear him.

I don't think punishment would help, am I wrong?

Is this just typical two year old behavior?

Some say to ignore a temper tantrum while my Mommy feelings are telling me if he's upset [and not kicking me etc] maybe he just needs some extra cuddles.

Thoughts?
 

heart of peace

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I can relate to what you are experiencing except my son began demonstrating this behavior at 9 months old. For me, it was especially alarming since I had never heard of the "terrible 2's" beginning in infancy. By the time he was in his 2's we had developed a repertoire of ways to work through the things that were frustrating him and he matured as well which helped him handle his 'big' emotions.

The neighbor issue with the calling security could present to be a nuisance more than anything.

My advice based on my experiences would be to not ignore the meltdowns at this point (and imo there is a difference between a meltdown and a tantrum....the meltdown is your child's way of dealing with very overwhelming emotions while a tantrum is your child's way of getting his way when presented with a no - a toy perhaps). Consistently helping him navigate his way through the murky waters will create a memory blueprint in his brain that he will later be able to access when trying to deal with it himself. He may not show that he is learning and internalizing it in the beginning but just like a baby listens to our speech and one day opens up and says a word, a toddler will demonstrate this same skill with problem solving techniques.

If you are interested in chatting further about various techniques to utilize, PM me. :)
 
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Athaliamum

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Tantrums are not only a response to being told no. I would still consider this a tantrum because it is a response that requires him to have no self-control. That's what kids need to learn, you can break behaviour etc down into different areas (manners, physicality, education, obedience, patience, honor, itegrity) but the basis is always self-control. You might not be telling him no, but his reaction is still the reaction of a child that is not getting what they want and hasn't learned to control themselves rather than kicking up a stink. When anger and frustration are ruling self-control isn't, no matter what the age. Everything needs a consequence - it's the way of life. If he shows no self-control then he requires a lesson that will teach him self-control. On the flip side look for every opportunity where he shows self-control and praise, praise, praise (like overboard).
 
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heart of peace

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According to the standard definition of a tantrum, it is a fit of bad temper. I only gave one example, of course there are other reasons to cause a tantrum. However, what Linnis is describing and her reaction to his intense moments sounds more like a meltdown to me, which the standard defintion is an emotional breakdown. Also, Athaliamum, what you wrote sounds more like a meltdown to me (an emotional breakdown rather than a fit of bad temper).

Linnis, I hope I did not misunderstand your OP.
 
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lovesbrightpink

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well depending on what he is mad about. I would tell him to use his words so that you can help him, if that doesnt work and its an all out fit for either no reason or not getting his way then I would simply lay him in a safe area(if he is the type to throw his body every where) and walk over him and go about your day. He needs to learn that behavior is not ok.

When you ignore they learn that you will not give attention to their naughty behavior and will only give him attention and what he wants when he uses his words like a big boy.
 
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Linnis

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According to the standard definition of a tantrum, it is a fit of bad temper. I only gave one example, of course there are other reasons to cause a tantrum. However, what Linnis is describing and her reaction to his intense moments sounds more like a meltdown to me, which the standard defintion is an emotional breakdown. Also, Athaliamum, what you wrote sounds more like a meltdown to me (an emotional breakdown rather than a fit of bad temper).

Linnis, I hope I did not misunderstand your OP.

Yes, you are understanding what I am trying to mean.

Athaliamum said:
Tantrums are not only a response to being told no. I would still consider this a tantrum because it is a response that requires him to have no self-control. That's what kids need to learn, you can break behaviour etc down into different areas (manners, physicality, education, obedience, patience, honor, itegrity) but the basis is always self-control. You might not be telling him no, but his reaction is still the reaction of a child that is not getting what they want and hasn't learned to control themselves rather than kicking up a stink. When anger and frustration are ruling self-control isn't, no matter what the age. Everything needs a consequence - it's the way of life. If he shows no self-control then he requires a lesson that will teach him self-control. On the flip side look for every opportunity where he shows self-control and praise, praise, praise (like overboard). 13th October 2008 09:38 PM

He probably doesn't have much self control. He's not even 2 yet. He's still learning. What lesson do you suggest to help him learn to control his emotions?

While I do believe children should be taught natural consequences I'mnot sure what that is for being really upset.

My gut reaction to a really upset child would be to cuddle with them until they calm down.....or give him space if that's what he needs but none of that works.


GolfingMom said:
Has his schedule changed at all?

He weaned October third.


I do encourage him to use his words/signs but he's still pretty behind in that stuff. He does go to speech and we're working on him learning words/signs so he can have his needs met by asking.
 
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HeatherJay

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I can relate to what you are experiencing except my son began demonstrating this behavior at 9 months old. For me, it was especially alarming since I had never heard of the "terrible 2's" beginning in infancy. By the time he was in his 2's we had developed a repertoire of ways to work through the things that were frustrating him and he matured as well which helped him handle his 'big' emotions.

The neighbor issue with the calling security could present to be a nuisance more than anything.

My advice based on my experiences would be to not ignore the meltdowns at this point (and imo there is a difference between a meltdown and a tantrum....the meltdown is your child's way of dealing with very overwhelming emotions while a tantrum is your child's way of getting his way when presented with a no - a toy perhaps). Consistently helping him navigate his way through the murky waters will create a memory blueprint in his brain that he will later be able to access when trying to deal with it himself. He may not show that he is learning and internalizing it in the beginning but just like a baby listens to our speech and one day opens up and says a word, a toddler will demonstrate this same skill with problem solving techniques.

If you are interested in chatting further about various techniques to utilize, PM me. :)

According to the standard definition of a tantrum, it is a fit of bad temper. I only gave one example, of course there are other reasons to cause a tantrum. However, what Linnis is describing and her reaction to his intense moments sounds more like a meltdown to me, which the standard defintion is an emotional breakdown. Also, Athaliamum, what you wrote sounds more like a meltdown to me (an emotional breakdown rather than a fit of bad temper).

Linnis, I hope I did not misunderstand your OP.

I agree totally with MsDahl. His behavior does not sound like a temper tantrum, or a behavior that he should be punished for. We all have emotional meltdowns...and we all have our own ways of dealing with them. At 2 years old, he needs support and comfort through those moments...not punishment or being ignored.

Sometimes it's enough, Linnis, to just sit close by him and try to soothe with your voice, if he doesn't want to be held.

My youngest went through a phase of absolute meltdowns. Not tantrums...just moments where the big wide world became too much for her. There was nothing I could do to calm her, and she didn't want to be held, either...so I would just sit on the floor beside her and gently shush her and rub the back of her hand (she didn't want to be touched any more than that). But, by doing that, and letting her know that I was there, and she was safe, and it was all going to be okay, she calmed down more quickly, and very soon grew out of that kind of response to stress.
 
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Athaliamum

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Hey, you don't have to agree with me, that's fine. But I can see the proof in the pudding. My kid is special needs, so for us this is a more common issue because she can't really speak and can't do many of the things physically that many other kids her age can do so does quite often become very frustrated for reasons that are obvious and fair but she still can't lose it - that's not life. She gets one "Urgh" then must count to ten and try again. I have to love her through these things and sometimes that is not the emotionally uplifting for me until after the fact- I have to be firm. If I give in to the melt down I have to ask who's emotional appeasement am I doing that for? Hers? Or mine?

A 2 year old is well able to start and learn self-control. There is no magic age where suddenly they have it - it's a process and needs to start being taught from the beginning. By trying to appease behavior like meltdowns it only reinforces that that is the right course of action for them to get what they want or at least to get something positive. Now I'm not saying be a mean mummy but I wouldn't be encouraging it through submission or worse just plain reinforcement of cuddles while they are going off the hook. What I do, is with a very calm, low and controlled voice talk to my daughter. I will say their name, get her to look at me. Tell her to settle down and if need be use her words or signs. This firm and calm tone is normally enough for them to do what I have asked, no more melt down. When they have demonstrated some form of self-control like screams have become just crying or sniffles (they still may be upset but not losing it) then they get hugs.

"We all have emotional meltdowns...and we all have our own ways of dealing with them."

See that is most probably the statement I would personally disagree with the most. I wouldn't say I have melt downs. Sure I get upset, get frustrated, stressed and have times where I struggle but I wouldn't lose it. Please don't take this the wrong way and take it in a spirit of love but perhaps modeling might have something to do with it and that could be from either parent. Do you have meltdowns or someone he sees often have meltdowns? Can't expect him to act any different if that is what he is being shown how to act. My husband isn't the type to meltdown either so it just doesn't belong in our house but don't get me wrong we're not emotional retarded either, we can be very passionate and firery, but we have a tool bag and rules that we live by in regards to this stuff.
 
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HeatherJay

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You don't have to agree with me, either. But I've seen the proof in the pudding too. I disagree with punishing a child for simply expressing emotion, and instead choose to be a support system and source of comfort. I also disagree with withholding affection and only handing it out as some kind of reward.

It sounds like your way works for you...that's wonderful. It's not a method that I would ever choose.

There's no singular "right way" to parent. And if Linnis doesn't choose to punish, or doesn't view her sons meltdowns as tantrums or bad behavior, there's nothing wrong with that. If she chooses to punish for emotional meltdowns, she has that right, too.
 
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Birbitt

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With my 4 Yo who is very emotional I taught him to take deep breaths when he was upset....At first I did this using a small piece of paper and telling him to breathe in and out enough to blow the paper. Now he knows when he's upset I tell him to breathe. Which he will do and then he's calmer because he can't concentrate on his emotions and breathing at the same time! Then we'll talk about what's bothering him. So my suggestion is to teach your child a calming technique that he can use on his own or with a gentle reminder and gradually his melt downs will decrease.
 
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HeatherJay

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With my 4 Yo who is very emotional I taught him to take deep breaths when he was upset....At first I did this using a small piece of paper and telling him to breathe in and out enough to blow the paper. Now he knows when he's upset I tell him to breathe. Which he will do and then he's calmer because he can't concentrate on his emotions and breathing at the same time! Then we'll talk about what's bothering him. So my suggestion is to teach your child a calming technique that he can use on his own or with a gentle reminder and gradually his melt downs will decrease.
:thumbsup:
 
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heart of peace

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Hey, you don't have to agree with me, that's fine. I have to be firm. If I give in to the melt down I have to ask who's emotional appeasement am I doing that for? Hers? Or mine?

A 2 year old is well able to start and learn self-control. There is no magic age where suddenly they have it - it's a process and needs to start being taught from the beginning. By trying to appease behavior like meltdowns it only reinforces that that is the right course of action for them to get what they want or at least to get something positive.

Athaliamum, you are making a few assumptions. No where did I specify what methods one should employ when dealing with a meltdown (or a tantrum for that matter). I only specified that they are different and I used a standard definition as my basis (I'm not disagreeing with you, merriam-webster is ;) ). Not only are you assuming what methods I would suggest but you have already placed your personal biases to them and assume that what I would suggest is "giving in" and "appeasing his/her behavior." Do you project your thoughts and judgments on your child in a similar manner?


Now I'm not saying be a mean mummy but I wouldn't be encouraging it through submission or worse just plain reinforcement of cuddles while they are going off the hook.

Are you more familiar with the OP than this thread? I am curious as to how you could assume that Linnis is not teaching/modeling methods to her child in frustrating/overwhelming situations.

What I do, is with a very calm, low and controlled voice talk to my daughter. I will say their name, get her to look at me. Tell her to settle down and if need be use her words or signs. This firm and calm tone is normally enough for them to do what I have asked, no more melt down. When they have demonstrated some form of self-control like screams have become just crying or sniffles (they still may be upset but not losing it) then they get hugs.

This is a great method to utilize after a child has been able to make sense of all the big emotions that come with the child's developing ego, which is basically what the "terrible 2's" really boils down to. There are other methods that I believe to be more appropriate for the child who is just beginning to become grounded in the "I" "mine" and "me" aspects of being a human being.
 
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Linnis

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Hey, you don't have to agree with me, that's fine. But I can see the proof in the pudding.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing but I'm not sure exactly what you are even saying. You say he needs a consequence but you don't say what it is. You say he needs to be taught self control but you don't say how.

I feel assumptions are being made.



I have never had a two year old. I don't remember being two. My experience deals with a child of 5+ who could talk, understand, communicate way like a 5 year old. My son knows about 30 words if that. I don't know how to teach him to express his emotions in a more acceptable way. I cannot reasonably expect him to have self-control if I have taught him how. How can I reasonably punish him for something he's doing, that isn't desired when I haven't taught him a better way?
I need to learn so that I can teach him.




My method is similar to one mentioned but slightly different. I will cuddle with him to help him calm down and then when he's more calm I'll ask him yes or no questions or ask him to use his words/signs.

Many times he asks for a "ug" [hug].
 
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Leanna

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It really depends on why he is overreacting. Have you read Your Two Year Old yet? That's a good insight into the silly little 2 year old at least. It may be that he is tired, over stimulated, under stimulated, lonely, bored, hungry, etc. I find that my kids overreact when they are hungry particularly. So we have breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner. If they have not eaten in a while, Maya (20 months) is all drama drama over every little thing.... but if I keep her fed, she is much more reasonable.
 
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Athaliamum

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Athaliamum, you are making a few assumptions.

Actually I'm not the one making assumptions, you are. I fail to see where my post was addressed to you in particular and your methods. Perhaps you could quote me where I do.

Do you project your thoughts and judgments on your child in a similar manner?
Really, talking about making assumptions - do you, pot calling the kettle black?

Are you more familiar with the OP than this thread? I am curious as to how you could assume that Linnis is not teaching/modeling methods to her child in frustrating/overwhelming situations.

No I'm not familiar with Linnis. Hence the reason I was making a general and not an individually addressed post on that particular topic. No where does my post say or specifically addressed "Linnis", or any one individual, does it now?

My statement on modeling was regards to someone else's statement that everyone has meltdowns but that is not a fact because not everyone does. The comment on modeling is only insulting if YOU CHOOSE it to be. There is no negative judgement in it unless you put that spin on in because of low self-esteem and anything that isn't fluffy or in complete in agreement is a "judgement". Come one really, the people on this board (generally) often take themselves WAY too seriously and are very quick to take on a spirit of offense, which is interesting seeing as members are meant to be christian and guarding against such sneaky spiritual warefare. Really lighten up and stop judging and weighing every word waiting to pounce on something for the sake of argument.

The modeling comment was simply a comment of observation, just something to be aware about, that children mimic their surroundings and are more likely to react in a meltdown fashion if both or either one of their role models react in a similar fashion. The statement that everyone does meltdown and that's okay makes meltdown behaviour acceptable but it's not. Plenty of adults are learning that when they go to work, have a meltdown because they've been taught it's okay to express all feeling without restraint and control and end up losing their jobs. It's not the real world. I'm not saying don't feel but the quicker one learns the tools within themselves and not external (as in mummy) to deal with it the better.

I think the main problem here is how each individual defines the term self-control. I'm getting the feeling that many of you attach an almost unloving and austere spin to it. Leading to comments like this " don't think taking mommy hugs away."
If you are implying that is what I said to do that is just ridiculous! I didn't say don't show them love, be mean. I was saying they need something other then just hugs. That hugs are to reinforce the comfort they have already achieved by themselves. They need internal tools - mum's cuddling isn't internal, its external - so what happens when mum's not there? How then are they meant to learn how to cope?

I taught him to take deep breaths when he was upset.
Guess what that would be teaching him? Self-control. Oh Heatherjay you big meany mummy.

Do you know what? Forget it. Too many people are far too determined to misinterpret and take offense and I'm too used to posting in context and critical thinking forums and I'm unaccustomed to the fluffy ego stroke required to get a fair hearing here without the bias spin.

Cheers :wave:
 
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