MELLO (#3195) - The Dangerous Greek Word That Has Been Removed From Most English Translations

[random person]

Part One - Greek: Mello

By Donald Hochner​

This is the first of five articles examining the Greek words as used in the Bible. I want to share with you why the full Preterist position is consistent with the Scripture, especially these passages that speak of things about to come. We are going to look into the lexicons with the Greek word "mello" (with its root words) which means "to be about to be, to be the point of doing" (Analytical Greek Lexicon, p. 262; Arndt, p. 500; Thayer, p. 396). I think this word "mello" is one of the most neglected English translations (NASB, KJV, NIV, etc.) of the eschatological passages in the NT. I was shocked to find out about this. The English translators may be guilty of removing or distorting God's Holy Word (Deut. 4:2). I believe it is because of the futurists' views that have affected or influenced translations of the Bible. This is pure eisegesis.

I am going to show you some eschatological passages. I am using NASB and you will see "[about]" which is in Greek text. I would recommend you to check some books in Greek and English with the interlinear translation, "The New Englishman's Concordance and Lexicon" and "Young's Literal Translation of the Holy Bible." These books may be very helpful for you. You will see why.

1. Matt. 3:7 & Luke 3:7 - "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath [about - mello] to come?" In this context, John the Baptist was preaching to the Jewish people. He warned the Jewish religious leaders about God's wrath to come shortly and it happened in 66-70 AD (3 1/2 years). The Old Covenant temple and the city of Jerusalem were destroyed by the Roman armies. Many Jewish people had been completely scattered or killed and all these things were fulfilled in 70 AD. See Daniel 12:7-13 and Luke 21:5-36.

2. Matt. 12:32 - "And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this (Old Covenant) age, or in the (New Covenant) age [about - mello] to come." Why did Jesus say it shall not be forgiven, either in this age OR the age about to come? He is speaking of sins committed in the time before the destruction of the Jewish temple before 70 AD ("this age") and afterward ("the age to come"). We will study the Greek word "age" which is "aion" in Part Five.

3. Matt. 16:27, 28 - "For the Son of Man is [about - mello] to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and WILL THEN RECOMPENSE EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." These passages are the most clear and straightforward from the mouth of Jesus Christ, otherwise He is a false prophet. This is why I believe Jesus returned in the glory of His Father with the angels to take the Kingdom away from God's enemies and give it back to His Father who now is all in all.

4. Matt. 24:6 - "And you will [about to - mello] be hearing of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end." Jesus was speaking to His disciples in their GENERATION (Matt. 24:34).

5. Luke 21:36 - "But keep on alert at all times, praying in order that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to [mello] take place, and to stand before the Son of Man." In this verse the NASB translators did not delete the Greek word "mello." Notice the word "you" several times in this chapter where Jesus was speaking to His disciples, not to us or future third parties.

6. Acts 17:31 - "Because He has fixed a day in which He [is about to - mello] judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof all men by raising Him from the dead." Paul made it very clear that God was ABOUT to judge the world in his generation. This is a strong case for the Preterist view of Scripture.

7. Acts 24:14, 15 - "But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law, and that is written in the Prophets; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall [about to be - mello] a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." Again, Paul made it very clear. He was expecting everything that written to be fulfilled very soon in his lifetime including the resurrection. Throughout the NT, we have seen the proclamation of the fulfillment of Israel's promises for the gospel going "to the Jews first, then the Greek"; the on-going Post-Pentecost transition from the Old Covenant to the New which is a pervasive and emphatic testimony for first century imminence of the time of the end.

8. Acts 24:25 - "And as he was discussing righteousness, self-control and the judgment [about - mello] to come, Felix became frightened and said, "Go away for the present, and when I find time, I will summon you." Notice Felix became frightened.

9. Acts 26:22, 23 - "And so, having obtained help from God, I stand to this day testifying both to small and great, stating nothing but what the Prophets and Moses said was going [about - mello] to take place; that Christ was to suffer, and that by reason of His resurrection from the dead He should be the first to proclaim light both to Jewish people and to the Gentiles." Notice Paul said the writings of the Prophets and Moses were about to be fulfilled.

10. Rom. 8:18 - "For I consider that sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is [about - mello] to be revealed to us." Read the whole context in Rom. 8:18-25.

11. Rom. 8:38, 39 - "For I am convinced that neither death, not life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things [about - mello] to come, nor powers, nor height, not depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Notice things present (Mosaic Age) and things about to come (Messianic Age) are associated with death, life, angels, etc. which shall not able to separate us from the love of God.

12. 1 Cor. 3:21-23 - "So then let no one boast in men. For all things belong to you, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or things present or things [about - mello] to come; all things belong to you, and you belong to Christ; and Christ belongs to God." This is the same thing as in Rom. 8:38.

13. Eph 1:21 - "Far above all rule and authority and power and dominion and every name that is named not only this age, but also in the one [about - mello] to come." It is very important to understand the meaning of "this age" (Old Covenant) and "the age about to come" (New Covenant) because it is the Jewish interpretation of eschatology. You will see this in my article in Part Five.

14. Col. 2:16, 17 - "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day, things which are a mere shadow of what is [about - mello] to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." These passages are the most important to understand the Old Covenant (Jewish festivals, ceremonial, promises, etc.) which was about to completed in Christ. Some futurists believe all these things were completed at the cross but it was not at the time of Paul's writing. So, obviously we don't practice these things for today because they were done away in 70 AD.

15. 2 Tim. 4:1 - "I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is [about - mello] to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom." This verse would close the case against the Futurist's views. At Christ's return the wicked were judged and cast into eternal torment, the same place where all other wicked go at death. The righteous inherited resurrection life back in the presence of God for the first time since Adam, the representative of the human race, lost it in the Garden. Resurrection life is Paradise restored (Rev. 2:7). Jesus (the tree of life) gave us the eternal life.

16. Heb. 1:13, 14 - "But to which of the angels has He ever said, "Sit at My right hand, until I make thine enemies a footstool for Thy feet?" Are they not all ministering spirits, send out to render service for the sake of those who will [about to - mello] inherit salvation?" The enemies of Christ were the Jewish people (Luke 19:27, Rom. 11:28, Phil 3:2, 18, 19). Christ crushed the head of all enemies even Death, and sat down at the right hand of His Father to reign eternally, whose kingdom shall have no end. Notice all the saints since the Fall are ABOUT to inherit salvation (redemption) in heaven.

17. Heb. 2:5 - "For He did not subject to angels the world [about - mello] to come, concerning which we are speaking." The Hebrew writer was discussing the Mosaic age that was "put into effect through angels" (Acts 7:53). The new covenant world would be in subjection to Jesus, not angels. Note that the writer wrote to the first century audience "concerning which we are speaking." They did not see everything subject in Jesus because the 70 AD judgment had not yet occurred.

18. Heb. 9:11 - "But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things [about - mello] to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation." Read in Heb. 8:6-13, 9:8-12, 15. At the time of writing, the earthly temple was still there and Christ the High Priest had not yet been disclosed from the holy place in heaven. In the OT, the high priest sacrificed the animal and then brought the blood into the holy of holies on the Day of Atonement. When the high priest came out of the holy of holies, the actual atonement had been made (Leviticus 16:16-18). But the blood of bulls and goats did not take away sins (Heb. 10:4). Jesus already came out of the holy place and brought all of His elect into the glory of God in heaven. That is why all the elect, physical, Israel were saved by the time the Parousia took place at the destruction of the Temple as it is written in Rom. 11:5, 25-29 (c.f. Heb. 9:15, 28). Since then, all of God's elect are no longer subject to Death (condemnation) and Hades (separation from God's presence). I believe at death the elect shed their physical bodies, and continue living in their spiritual immortal bodies with God in heaven forever.

19. Heb. 10:1 - "For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things [about - mello] to come and not the very form of things, can never by the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect those who draw near." The writer of Hebrews tried to remind the Jewish people about the promises of God which were about to be fulfilled in Christ.

20. Heb 10:27 - "But a certain terrifying exception of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will [about to - mello] consume the adversaries." Again, the writer warned the Jewish people of their time to turn to Jesus Christ, otherwise they would face the wrath of God. Read Heb. 10:25-39. These verses are vivid.

21. Heb. 13:14 - "For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is [about - mello] to come." Clearly, this verse is speaking of the New Jerusalem after the Old Jerusalem would be destroyed and rendered obsolete. Read Heb. 11:16, Rev. 21:1-7, 9-10.

22. 1 Peter 5:1 - "Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and partaker also of the glory that is [about - mello] to be revealed." Peter understood and he was expecting the glory that was about to revealed. Remember, he was inspired by God. Read carefully in 1 Peter 1:4-13, 20; 2:6-8; 4:7.

23. Rev. 1:19 - "Write therefore the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall [about to - mello] take place after these things." In Rev. 1:9-20, these passages are "The things which you have seen." In Rev. 2:1-3:22 are "The things which are," and then in Rev. 4:1-22:5 are "the things which are ABOUT [mello] to take place after these things." There are only three sections and notice the last section was about to take place in John's generation. Read Rev. 1:1, 3; 22:6, 7, 10, 12, 20. We must NOT attempt to explain away the statements of imminence. That is the rule of the interpretation. Some try to use 2 Peter 3:8 to interpret the overwhelming abundance of the statements of imminence. However, their hermeneutic is unacceptable.

24. Rev 12:5 - "And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is [about - mello] to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and His throne." It is clearly about Jesus who was caught up to God and His throne in heaven, not on the earth. In John's vision, Jesus was about to rule with a rod of iron.

Here is a quote from Eusebius, the Christian historian in the late third century. This is what he wrote about James, the brother of the Lord, when James was in trial with the Jewish leaders, "And he (James) answered with a loud voice, 'Why do ye ask me respecting Jesus the Son of Man? He is now sitting in the heavens, on the right hand of great Power, and is about to come on the clouds of heavens.' in Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History, p. 77 (emphasis mine).

So, the Preterist view is consistent with the Scriptures. Let the Scriptures interpret the Scriptures. Check the Greek words and some historians, and you will find the preterist view has the strongest case against any other eschatological views. I don't know how the Futurists would defend themselves with these passages which I have shown. We ought to "be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth" (2 Tim. 2:15).

The Reformed Futurists (Amillennialism, Postmillennialism or Historic Premillennialism) cannot defend their eschatological views with dispensationalism, Charismatic and Pentecostal churches, Arminianism, Judaism, Liberal Theologians and the cults because they have some holes. Once the Reformed churches come into the full Preterist view, they will be able to defend the truth against the members of these false religions, and they will be able expose them with their errors. Reformed Preterists can make a big difference, no matter what others will think.

What do you think all of this so far, especially after examining the Greek word "mello"?

Hopefully this will help a lot and cause you to rethink the reasons for your eschatological view.

Soli Deo Gloria!


Part One - Greek: Mello

 

[AlasBabylon]

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" Brood of vipers" describe the Edomite-jews [like the Herods] perfectly.

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[Brian45]

I don't have a problem with the fact that the apostles all believed that Jesus would come back in their generation as their writings make it quite obvious that that is what they believed.
And probably because Jesus said Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

If you and I were there listening to him say that we would have thought the same. How could they have known that he meant 2000 or so yrs in the future , especially after they saw the destruction of their temple.

So there you have it , just an honest mistake on the apostles part and not really their fault.

 

[Straightshot]

Mello?


What a rant over nothing

 

[BABerean2]

I want to share with you why the full Preterist position is consistent with the Scripture, especially these passages that speak of things about to come.

Are you promoting Full-Preterism in these articles?

 

[parousia70]

So there you have it , just an honest mistake on the apostles part and not really their fault.

Interesting.
What other "Honest Mistakes" do you suppose the Apostles made, and then taught?

If we can't trust them to be correct about the timing, how can we trust they got anything else correct?

 

[AlasBabylon]

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What do "full preterists" believe about the resurrection of the dead at Christ's second coming ?

Obviously that hasn't happened yet.

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[AlasBabylon]

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I think "full preterism" has more to do with the "evil servant" who has totally run amok... and hopes his master never returns.


... if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming...

And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in
an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion
with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 24:48-51

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[random person]

I don't have a problem with the fact that the apostles all believed that Jesus would come back in their generation as their writings make it quite obvious that that is what they believed.
And probably because Jesus said Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

If you and I were there listening to him say that we would have thought the same. How could they have known that he meant 2000 or so yrs in the future , especially after they saw the destruction of their temple.

So there you have it , just an honest mistake on the apostles part and not really their fault.

They didn't make any mistakes! It is the presuppositions of "millennialists" that are mistaken.

Here is what the scholars have to say on Matt. 24:22-29:

Milton Terry said, " From these quotations it is apparent that there is scarcely an expression employed in Matthew and Luke which has not been taken from the Old Testament Scriptures. Such apocalyptic forms of speech are not to be assumed to convey in the New Testament a meaning different from that which they bear in the Hebrew Scriptures. They are part and parcel of the genius of prophetic language."

Samuel Hinds (1829) said, "It requires but a slender acquaintance with the writings of the Old Testament prophets to enable us to observe the peculiarity. It is not only figurative, but the figures are of the boldest kind, involving analogies so remote, as in some instances to be scarcely discoverable. If revolutions in empires be the subject, the prophetic representation is filled with disturbance of the laws of the natural world, and the sun, moon, and stars, are exhibited in commotion. If a deliverer is promised to the Jews, the prophet expresses the promise by the rising of a star, and the like" (Hinds, pp. 209-210)

Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727) said, "The figurative language of the prophets is taken from the analogy between the world natural and an empire or kingdom considered as a world politic. Accordingly, the world natural, consisting of heaven and earth, signifies the whole world politic, consisting of thrones and people, or so much of it as is considered in prophecy; and the things in that world signify the analogous things in this. For the heavens and the things therein signify thrones and dignities, and those who enjoy them: and the earth, with the things thereon, the inferior people; and the lowest parts of the earth, called Hades or Hell, the lowest or most miserable part of them. Great earthquakes, and the shaking of heaven and earth, are put for the shaking of kingdoms, so as to distract and overthrow them; the creating of a new heaven and earth, and the passing of an old one; or the beginning and end of a world, for the rise and ruin of a body politic signified thereby. The sun, for the whole species and race of kings, in the kingdoms of the world politic; the moon, for the body of common people considered as the king's wife; the starts, for subordinate princes and great men; or for bishops and rulers of the people of God, when the sun is Christ. Setting of the sun, moon, and stars; darkening the sun, turning the moon into blood, and falling of the stars, for the ceasing of a kingdom." (Observations on the Prophecies, Part i. chap. ii)

Dr. John Owen (1721) said, "Not to hold you too long upon what is so plain and evident, you may take it for a rule, that, in the denunciations of the judgments of God, through all the prophets, heaven, sun, moon, stars, and the like appearing beauties and glories of the spectacle heavens, are taken for governments, governors, dominions in political states, as Isa. 14:12-15; Jer 15:9, 51:25. Isaiah 13:13; Ps. 68:6; Joel 2:10; Rev. 8:12; Matt. 24:29; Luke 21:25; Isa 60:20; Obad. 4; Rev 8:13; 11:12; 20:11." (vol. 8, p. 255, in a sermon entitled Shaking and Translating of Heaven and Earth, preached on April 19, 1649)

James Stuart Russell (1878) said, "The symbols are, in fact, equivalent to those employed by our Lord when predicting the doom of Israel. 'Immediately after the tribulation of those days (the horrors of the siege of Jerusalem) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken (Matt 24:29). Both passages refer to the same catastrophe and employ very similar figures; besides which we have the authority of our Lord for fixing the event and the period of which He speaks within the limits of the generation then in existence: that is to say, the reference can only be to the judgment of the Jewish nation and the abrogation of the Mosaic economy at the Parousia." (p. 289-290).

John Gill (1809) said, "Ver. 29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days, &c. That is, immediately after the distress the Jews would be in through the siege of Jerusalem, and the calamities attending it; just upon the destruction of that city, and the temple in it, with the whole nation of the Jews, shall the following things come to pass;...... and that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, will not answer to the word 'immediately', or show that that should be understood of two thousand years after: besides, all the following things were to be fulfilled before that present generation, in which Christ lived, passed away, #Mt 24:34 and therefore must be understood of things that should directly, and immediately take place upon, or at the destruction of the city and temple."

Matthew 24:30-31:

God's "coming on the clouds of heaven" is a symbolic way of speaking of His presence, judgment and salvation. All through the Old Testament God was coming "on clouds," in salvation of His people and judgment of His enemies. Coming on the clouds indicates His Presence: Exodus 16:10; 19:9; 34:5, Leviticus 16:2, Numbers 11:25. Salvation: In Psalms 18:9-12, David speaks of his deliverance from Saul using apocalyptic language. Judgment: The idea of God's coming in the clouds is also associated with His judgment of his enemies (Isaiah 19:1). We know from chapter 20 that God used the Assyrians as instruments of His wrath on Egypt, yet it says, "The LORD rides on a swift cloud..., Egypt will totter at His presence." God came to Egypt in judgment in 480BC. His presence was made known in judgment. But it was the Assyrians who were literally present. Similar language is used of Nineveh's fall (Nahum 1:3, 5-6): We know that Nineveh was destroyed, not by a literal coming of God out of heaven on the clouds, but by the invading armies of the Chaldeans and Medes in 612 BC.

When Jesus said he would come on the clouds, He was using the apocalyptic language of the prophets to identify himself as the Messiah, the Judge. Caiaphas reacted the way he did because he knew that only God came on clouds, that was a claim to deity. He knew that Jesus was claiming to be the Messiah of Daniel 7. Notice what Jesus says to Caiaphas in Mark 14:62: Here it says that they will see Him "coming with the clouds of heaven" while He is "sitting at the right hand of the Power." If this is literal and bodily, how could He do both at the same time? This is clearly apocalyptic language. His coming with the clouds is proof of His sitting on the right hand of power.

John Lightfoot says this, "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man. Then shall the Son of man give a proof of himself, who they would not before acknowledge: a proof, indeed, not in any visible figure, but in vengeance and judgment so visible, that all the tribes of the earth shall be forced to acknowledge him the avenger. The Jews would not know him: now they shall know him, whether they will or no, Isa. xxvi. II. Many times they asked of him a sign: now a sign shall appear, that he is the true Messiah, whom they despised, derided, and crucified, namely, his signal vengeance and fury, such as never any nation felt from the first foundations of the world."

Our text says that at the time of His coming, "and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn." The word "tribes" is a reference to Israel. Gentiles are not referred to as "tribes" in the Bible. There were tribes in Israel at that time, but since its destruction in AD 70, there have been no "tribes" in Israel. This reminds us of Revelation 1:7: John said that Jesus was coming "soon" and "quickly" and that the "Jews," those who pierced him, would mourn at his coming.

We must see that this is not a physical, bodily coming of Christ, but a coming in judgment. The idea of "seeing" here is not physically seeing but "to recognize, to be aware, to perceive." The destruction of Jerusalem would cause the tribes of Israel to recognize that Jesus was indeed the Son of man and the Messiah.

Thomas Newton (1754) said, "Our Saviour proceedeth in the same figurative style, ver. 30 - "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.' The plain meaning of it is, that the destruction of Jerusalem will be such a remarkable instance of divine vengeance, such a signal manifestation of Christ's power and glory, that all the Jewish tribes shall mourn, and many will be led from thence to acknowledge Christ and the Christian religion. In the ancient prophets, God is frequently described as coming in the 'clouds' upon any remarkable interposition and manifestation of his power; and the same description is here applied to Christ. The destruction of Jerusalem will be as ample a manifestation of Christ's power and glory as if he was himself to come visibly in the clouds of heaven."

John Gill (1809) a premillennialist said, "He shall appear, not in person, but in the power of his wrath and vengeance, on the Jewish nation which will be a full sign and proof of his being come:"

The prophetic language of the Old Testament clearly shows that the Lord coming on a cloud speaks of his coming in judgment. And that is exactly what it means in the New Testament when it speaks of Christ coming on clouds. People saw him come in judgment, but it was not a visible appearance of Christ in person. Jesus predicted both the destruction of Jerusalem and His parousia in the same context. Since Jerusalem was destroyed, just as He said it would be, why would it be hard to believe that He came, just as he said he would? The destruction of Jerusalem was as substantial a manifestation of Christ's power and glory, as if he was himself to come visibly in the clouds of heaven. The same sort of metaphor is carried on in the next verse

Matthew 24:31 (NKJV) "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Does the Lord, all of a sudden, drop the apocalyptic language and begin to speak literally? I think not. This also is apocalyptic language. The most important thing that I want you to see here is that whatever this means, it happened 2,000 years ago. In verse 34, Jesus said, "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place." The generation that He was speaking to was to experience all that He had spoken of, including the gathering together of the elect. With that in mind, let's see if we can understand what is being spoken of here.

We need to try to get an understanding of the use of the trumpet in the Old Testament. The trumpet was used to call the people of Israel together (Numbers 10:2). The trumpet was to be blown on the Day of Atonement in the jubilee year to signal the release of slaves and debt. Please note that AD 70 was a jubilee year (Leviticus 25:9). We can get some Old Testament background on the trumpet and gathering from Isaiah (Isaiah 27:12-13). Isaiah says that when the trumpet of God sounds, the outcasts of Israel would be gathered. This is a reiteration of an earlier Messianic promise of the regathering of the remnant (Isaiah 11:1-5, 11-12). Here we see the idea of gathering from the four corners of the earth. So a time was to come when God would gather His people together.

Compare the apocalyptic language of trumpets used in Zephaniah 1:6,16 (fulfilled Jerusalem 586 BC); Jeremiah 4:19; 6:1 (fulfilled Jerusalem 586 BC); Joel 2:1,15 (fulfilled 30 AD). To "gather together his elect" was the entire goal of Old Testament (Psalms 50:4-5, Isaiah 11:12; 40:11; 43:5; 54:7-8). Notice this last verse, where gathering is inseparable from having the everlasting kindness and mercy of the Redeemer upon His elect.

John Gill said, "The Jews say, that 'in the after-redemption (i.e., by Messiah) all Israel shall be gathered together by the sound of a trumpet, from the four parts of the world. Zohar in Lev. 47:1."

Matt. 24:35:

If the destruction of heaven and earth were to be taken literally in all of the Old Testament passages, it would mean that heaven and earth were destroyed a bunch of times. This language is clearly not literal, but figurative and apocalyptic.

Gary DeMar (1996) said, "Jesus does not change subjects when He assures the disciples that "heaven and earth will pass away." Rather, He merely affirms His prior predictions, which are recorded in Matthew 24:29n31. Verse 36 is a summary and confirmation statement of these verses.(6) Keep in mind that the central focus of the Olivet Discourse is the desolation of the "house" and "world" of apostate Israel (23:36). The old world of Judaism, represented by the earthly temple, is taken apart stone by stone (24:2). James Jordan writes, "each time God brought judgment on His people during the Old Covenant, there was a sense in which an old heavens and earth was replaced with a new one: New rulers were set up, a new symbolic world model was built (Tabernacle, Temple), and so forth."(7) The New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant with new leaders, a new priesthood, new sacraments, a new sacrifice, a new tabernacle (John 1:14), and a new temple (John 2:19; 1 Corinthians 3:16; Ephesians 2:21). In essence, a new heaven and earth.

The darkening of the sun and moon and the falling of the stars, coupled with the shaking of the heavens (24:29), are more descriptive ways of saying that "heaven and earth will pass away" (24:35). In other contexts, when stars fall, they fall to the earth, a sure sign of temporal judgment (Isaiah 14:12; Daniel 8:10; Revelation 6:13; 9:1; 12:4). So then, the "passing away of heaven and earth" is the passing away of the old covenant world of Judaism led and upheld by those who "crucified the Lord of glory" (1 Corinthians 2:8). " The Hebrew people understood this kind of language.

We are now living in the new heaven and earth (John 4:14; 7:39). We are the new Jerusalem, which is the bride of Christ. Jesus Christ and His Father are among us and we need no temple, we need none of the rituals and ceremonies of the old heaven and the old earth. We are in God's presence now and forevermore.

C.H. Spurgeon(1865) said, "Did you ever regret the absence of the burnt-offering, or the red heifer, or any one of the sacrifices and rites of the Jews? Did you ever pine for the feast of tabernacle, or the dedication? No, because, though these were like the old heavens and earth to the Jewish believers, they have passed away, and we now live under the new heavens and a new earth, so far as the dispensation of divine teaching is concerned. The substance is come, and the shadow has gone: and we do not remember it." (Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, vol. xxxvii, p. 354).

The old heavens and earth of Judaism have passed away, and we now live in the new heavens and new earth of the New covenant. May God help us to fully understand and appreciate our position in the new heaven and earth where righteousness dwells, and where God dwells with His people.

 

[random person]

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What do "full preterists" believe about the resurrection of the dead at Christ's second coming ?

Obviously that hasn't happened yet.

.

And what are we Christians actually being resurrected from?

“But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” The word “when” here is beyom. Certain effects would take place immediately – “when” – the cause is done. There is no hint whatsoever of “delayed” concept. Again, that is not a grammatical point, but a theological interpretation. “When”, then, did their eyes become open, and “when” did they become like God, knowing good and evil? The text explicitly tells us: “Then the eyes of both were opened…. Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil” (3:7,22). Note the word, “then.” “When”? “Then!” When the action was performed, the results immediately followed. There was no “delay”.

Having these examples before us in the very text itself forces me to consider that “death” here is not “physical death” at all. Because we are so accustomed to interpret “death” in physical terms, the passage before us strikes at that notion, causing us to question what is going on here. Something is going on here. They didn’t physically die. This is the Bible’s way of forcing the reader to ponder and reflect on the passage rather than just glossing through it.

Their eyes were opened immediately. They became like God, knowing good and evil, immediately. But, if we follow Dr. Talbot, they didn’t die immediately, they were just immediately guaranteed death. The genius of the text forces us to consider the nature of death meant. Eve did not drop to the ground. Adam, who was “with her” saw this. Perhaps this is what prompted him to taste. According to his senses, Eve did not die when she ate. The temptation to Adam, then, was having his eyes opened and becoming like God.

The fact that there is no concept of “delay” imbedded in the grammatical construction, coupled with the “when/then” relationship of cause and immediate effect, forces us to look for another definition of death that is in keeping with other uses of this term in the Bible. We are not hard pressed to find one.

Adam and his wife were exiled from the Garden. In the Garden was the Tree of Life. They were, in fact, separated from Life. What we have here is a picture of the meaning of death: separation from Life. In this case, Eternal Life (Gen 3:22). Adam was not separated from physical life. He was, however, separated from Eternal Life. Death is the separation from life, physically, or spiritually. The same definition applies to both concepts. Clearly, “when” Adam ate of the fruit, he was immediately banished from the Garden, separated from Eternal Life (reigning forever with God in righteousness – God’s own righteousness). Sheol would now be his lot. He may, indeed, have life with God while alive on earth, but in his death, it would not be a going-on-to-greater-things. It would be a descent into sheol. One would have to await resurrection of the dead if there be any hope of receiving eternal life. This is exactly what we find in the Psalms.

In summary:

1. The Hebrew syntax here does not have imbedded in it the idea of “delay.” It does, however, have the idea of “certainty.”

2. The temporal phrase beyom denotes the “when” aspect, that if an action is done (when), “then” another action will immediately follow. In the case of Gen 3, I have shown that those actions immediately followed.

3. Therefore, Adam and Eve, together, “died” when they ate, their eyes were opened the day they ate, they became like God, knowing good and evil, the day they ate, and they were separated from the Tree of Life the day they ate. In short: they died. It is for this far more critical aspect of Death that Christ came to rescue and deliver his people from (hence, in the end, sheol is cast into the lake of fire – and Christ, through His death, entered into sheol).

4. More crucial to our enterprise as Biblical Preterists, is that Dr. Talbot has taken the tact to refute us based on biblical exegesis. This is certainly noble. If Preterism is to be defeated, it will be defeated here. However, if we can continue to bring to bear the principles of hermeneutics as found within our standard reference books and grammars, then we should not encounter any problems. This brings me to consider the exegesis of Dr. Talbot in that he brought in the idea or concept of “delay.” Why? Because, I believe, in all fairness, he has to. The Confession and theology of the Reformation demands it. Physical death must be taught here in Gen 3, for if not, then a major plank has been taken. I have not brought into the text any presupposed Creed or theology. The text informs me of “when” and “then” – and forced me to reconsider “death.” The text did this. One can see, then, that quite apart from proving his case, Dr. Talbot brought in the idea of “delay” – which is quite foreign, and only considered when, in fact, Adam did not physically die the day he ate.

This is critical. It almost makes our case for us. The fact that a foreign idea of delay has to be smuggled into the text is due to the fact that Adam did not PHYSICALLY die that day. Should he have? If there were no textual issues here, and if physical death was meant, Adam would have physically dropped to the ground when he ate. But the fact that he didn’t forces us to reconsider the text, one way or the other. It forces Dr. Talbot to read into the text the concept of “delay” because he presupposes a theological grid that demands resurrection of physical bodies. Either way, the text itself forces one to stop and ponder. For us, we simply asked, “okay, he didn’t physically die when he ate….so what did happen?” When we see what the text says immediately happened, that, for us, constitutes “death.” We find, also, that this meaning of death is metaphorically repeated in the OT narratives over and over again. Indeed, even in the NT. When did this metaphorical (though very real) use of death begin? Where else? Genesis!

http://www.biblicalpreteristarchive.com/start/fulfilled/sam-frost-001-yscd.html

 

[AlasBabylon]

.

The first time Christ came as the sacrificial Lamb of God... the second time He comes
as the King of kings who is triumphant over all enemies... including death itself.

Christ's second coming brings to fruition all that He accomplished in His first coming...
He is the firstfruits of those who now sleep in death... awaiting their resurrection.

Those who do not believe in any immortality... or those who think their dead are
conscious and are having a fun tea party with God in an invisible heaven [which most
pagan religions also believe] do not see the need for Christ to return a second time.

The Bible teaches the dead are asleep. Like the fairy tale, Sleeping Beauty, they await
the return of their Prince to wake them up.

Like Luther and Tyndale, I too believe those who now sleep in death are unconscious
and their hope for immortality is ONLY in Christ... in Christ's second coming and the
resurrection of the dead.

.

 

[random person]

.

I think "full preterism" has more to do with the "evil servant" who has totally run amok... and hopes his master never returns.


... if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming...

And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in
an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion
with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 24:48-51

.

Nope, this is addressing the same falling away that John's letter to the seven churches were addressing.

 

[random person]

.

The first time Christ came as the sacrificial Lamb of God... the second time He comes
as the King of kings who is triumphant over all enemies... including death itself.

Christ's second coming brings to fruition all that He accomplished in His first coming...
He is the firstfruits of those who now sleep in death... awaiting their resurrection.

Those who do not believe in any immortality... or those who think their dead are
conscious and are having a fun tea party with God in an invisible heaven [which most
pagan religions also believe] do not see the need for Christ to return a second time.

The Bible teaches the dead are asleep. Like the fairy tale, Sleeping Beauty, they await
the return of their Prince to wake them up.

Like Luther and Tyndale, I too believe those who now sleep in death are unconscious
and their hope for immortality is ONLY in Christ... in Christ's second coming and the
resurrection of the dead.

.

Soul sleep is a heretical teaching, the Greek word used in 1 Thess. 4:15-16 is koimēthentas

koimaó from NG2749 (#2837)
Strong's Concordance
koimaó from NG2749: sleep, fall asleep, die
Original Word: κοιμάομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: koimaó from NG2749
Phonetic Spelling: (koy-mah'-o)
Short Definition: I fall asleep, am asleep
Definition: I fall asleep, am asleep, sometimes of the sleep of death.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
to put to sleep, fall asleep
NASB Translation
asleep (3), dead (1), fallen asleep (7), fell asleep (3), sleep (2), sleeping (2).

koimaó from NG2749


It simply means to die. It is obviously an expression for death. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no such thing as soul sleep, people. The dead were simply referred to as "sleeping" in the East in ancient times. Maybe it was the politically correct thing to do, who knows?

 

[Straightshot]

My comment


"They didn't make any mistakes!"


No they did not ..... they just did not know the time of the Lord's future intervention

He has not revealed this to anyone .... and His next intervention is still pending

It is the preterist who makes the mistake, intentionally .... or unintentionally

 

[AlasBabylon]

Soul sleep is a heretical teaching

.

Both early Protestant reformers, Luther and Tyndale, believed in soul sleep...
why... because it is Biblical.... and the RCC sought to kill them for their beliefs.

Tyndale died a martyr for Christ... his "heretical" translation of the Bible became
a major part of the King James Bible.


" Tyndale fled to Germany in 1524 and the next year, produced the New Testament in English. This New Testament was then printed and smuggled into England. And, in 1530, Tyndale completed and printed the Pentateuch in English, as well. Five years later, though, a friend betrayed Tyndale. He was captured and imprisoned in a castle near Brussels. There he languished for more than 430 days without heat or light. Eventually, Tyndale was charged with treason and hanged. Yet, right before Tyndale died, he cried out, “Lord, open the king of England’s eyes!”

That God did in the early 1600s. And, nearly 90-percent of Tyndale’s Bible passed into the King James Version. Truly, this version stands as a lasting monument not just to King James, but to William Tyndale – a martyr and hero of the faith. All of us who own a Bible owe Tyndale a great debt.. "

http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/churchandministry/churchhistory/KJV-Roys-WilliamTyndale.aspx


.

 

[Straightshot]

Don't kick out this concept .... you can find the truth about the matter in scripture, and the explanation is quite clear, but you have to look for the same

Many have heard that the JWs are the sole pushers of sleeping in death with no time passing

They just got lucky on this subject even thought their explanation is lacking

..... and I am not a JW by the way .... far from it

 

[BABerean2]

.

Both early Protestant reformers, Luther and Tyndale, believed in soul sleep...
why... because it is Biblical.... and the RCC sought to kill them for their beliefs.

Tyndale died a martyr for Christ... his "heretical" translation of the Bible became
a major part of the King James Bible.


" Tyndale fled to Germany in 1524 and the next year, produced the New Testament in English. This New Testament was then printed and smuggled into England. And, in 1530, Tyndale completed and printed the Pentateuch in English, as well. Five years later, though, a friend betrayed Tyndale. He was captured and imprisoned in a castle near Brussels. There he languished for more than 430 days without heat or light. Eventually, Tyndale was charged with treason and hanged. Yet, right before Tyndale died, he cried out, “Lord, open the king of England’s eyes!”

That God did in the early 1600s. And, nearly 90-percent of Tyndale’s Bible passed into the King James Version. Truly, this version stands as a lasting monument not just to King James, but to William Tyndale – a martyr and hero of the faith. All of us who own a Bible owe Tyndale a great debt.. "

http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/churchandministry/churchhistory/KJV-Roys-WilliamTyndale.aspx


.

Can you provide some definitive resources showing that Luther and Tyndale believed in soul sleep?

 

[BABerean2]

Don't kick out this concept .... you can find the truth about the matter in scripture, and the explanation is quite clear, but you have to look for the same

Many have heard that the JWs are the sole pushers of sleeping in death with no time passing

They just got lucky on this subject even thought their explanation is lacking

..... and I am not a JW by the way .... far from it

Based on our last discussion of this matter, I thought you admitted that there are references to "spirits" in heaven, within the Book of Revelation.

Don't backslide on me, now.



Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?


Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

[Brian45]

Interesting.
What other "Honest Mistakes" do you suppose the Apostles made, and then taught?

If I remember correctly I believe Paul did say in his writings that he had to straiten Peter out over a few issues and God himself sent down a parachute with animals on board telling Peter to kill and eat , think it had something to do with clean and unclean meat. And there was a debate back then about whether or not a person needed to follow jewish customs like being circumcised etc and that debate continues even to this day. I know from my school days that most of the men my age have been circumcised. So I guess like you and I they weren't perfect either.

 

[Straightshot]

"Based on our last discussion of this matter, I thought you admitted that there are references to "spirits" in heaven, within the Book of Revelation."


Wrong .... the martyrs of the tribulation period that is coming are in view and under the alter [Revelation 6:9-11]

These will have a different experience than the spirits of the rest of the human dead none of which go under the alter

And this is the last time I will respond to you

In addition if you troll my postings with remarks like this one:

"Don't backslide on me, now."

.... I will report you and will follow up