means of grace

[JM]

There are several things in this post that I disagree with. Show me in Scripture where Covenant theology, Baptist not Presbyterian, teaches that the ordinances are signs and seals. They are pictures but they do not seal anything to us. That is the Spirit.

1689 London Baptist Federalism is found in the confession and catechisms, which I have already posted. If you disagree with them, you are inconsistent in your understanding of Baptist, covenant theology.

Not my prob bro.

 

[JM]

Of course the aying on of hands communicates grace, since fidts of grace can be communicated in this way. I guess I'm just bot comfortavle with the sacraments being a means of grace because your not differentiating between saving grace and ministorial grace.

Bro. Mark, I understand what you're saying and felt the same way for years and years. It wasn't until I realized I was judging the Calvinistic understanding by confusing it and lumping it together with Roman Catholicism. It's all by Christ, through faith, using the means He has given us. Scripture, laying on of hands, and the sacraments.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[JM]

I did read what you had quoted and it seemed Romanesque to me.

How do you view Romans 3, and do you think observing the sacraments are a requirement to salvation?

Romans 3? I would take the classic Calvinistic/Reformed view of that passage. Sacraments are not a requirement for salvation but confirm and encourage our faith.

God gave us the ordinances/sacraments for this purpose.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

is there a verse that says the phrase 'means of grace'?

Not that I am aware of, this Wikipedia article briefly explores the meaning of the phrase across different Christian traditions. Much could be discussed, from the meaning of the term "grace", to the differences between "common grace" and "redemptive grace", as well as key passages of Scripture pertaining to them, but I do not think it is necessary, not here. If we understand the word "means" as application, then I understand in the common usage of the term grace to apply to salvation in Christ, the means provided by God is the atonement of Christ the shedding of his blood for his people, whosoever the Father draws, the Spirit applies to the believer in Christ. Who applies redemptive grace? God and God alone as he wills, and this special means of grace is a work of the triune God of Scripture. I do not find it sound or helpful to conflate or equivocate grace with the sacraments, neither helpful to conflate or equivocate common grace and redemptive grace, but it is helpful to distinguish the works of creatures from the works of the Creator.

 

[twin1954]

1689 London Baptist Federalism is found in the confession and catechisms, which I have already posted. If you disagree with them, you are inconsistent in your understanding of Baptist, covenant theology.

Not my prob bro.

Not inconsistent at all. Historic Baptist covenant theology easily encompasses what I believe. Can you show me where it doesn't?

You are already familiar with where I disagree with the London Confession so it is up to you to prove my inconsistency.

 

[JM]

Not inconsistent at all. Historic Baptist covenant theology easily encompasses what I believe. Can you show me where it doesn't?

You are already familiar with where I disagree with the London Confession so it is up to you to prove my inconsistency.

Brother,

You may continue to pick and choose what you like in terms of doctrine, but historically, you are at odds with the Particular Baptists who formulated and expressed the covenant theology you believe in. That is all I was pointing out.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

... shalom ...

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

... shalom ...

 

[twin1954]

Brother,

You may continue to pick and choose what you like in terms of doctrine, but historically, you are at odds with the Particular Baptists who formulated and expressed the covenant theology you believe in. That is all I was pointing out.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

You know that my doctrine comes from the light given me by the Spirit. I don't choose my doctrine from confessions or historical understanding. If it goes against man, whether those who lived in ages past or live today, so be it. I am willing to stand alone for the truth revealed to me. It seems that I often am. But I must answer to Christ not man. I am more than willing to do so.

 

[JM]

I'm sorry Brother Twin but did you get a burning in your bosom? Or was it transmitted directly like a secret gnosis? (just kidding)

Definition of the Means of Grace

Baptism as a Means of Grace

 

[twin1954]

I'm sorry Brother Twin but did you get a burning in your bosom? Or was it transmitted directly like a secret gnosis? (just kidding)

Definition of the Means of Grace

Baptism as a Means of Grace

 

[twin1954]

I'm sorry Brother Twin but did you get a burning in your bosom? Or was it transmitted directly like a secret gnosis? (just kidding)

Definition of the Means of Grace

Baptism as a Means of Grace

Since my last didn't post; ha ha.