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Meaning and Immortality

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True love waits in haunted attics
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"Dumb" was a sort of synecdoche for dumbness and ignorance -- but, as you say, it's probably mostly ignorance. (Even more precisely, the general lack of inclination to be as smart as a person can be is based in ignorance.)

And I think Christianity is basically an existentialist faith, whether or not people espouse non-existential ideas about it (i.e., the living phenomenological reality of the faith transcends its concepts). That said, this would mean that the "dumb" Christians are those who really aren't, in the fullest sense, Christians. You know, pew warmers who pray for other sinners without really committing themselves to the Eternal. In Kierkegaard's, view, at least, being a Christian is something a person has to check himself with every day, every hour (consciously or not). Like Paul said, "I die daily."
 
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Eudaimonist

I believe in life before death!
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"Living death" was a figurative expression, by which I mean basically anything negative. To stand with the "death is needed for life meaning" crowd, this would mean that being a serial killer or drunk isn't qualitatively different than being a righteous activist or loving father. It all would depend on whether or not a literal or existential death is perceived by the individual before an experience has real value. And that's the absurd part from my perspective: I've had a few extremely useful moments where I realized "hey, I'll be getting old one day, I need to step up or my life will pass me by," but the vast majority of times that I motivated myself to do something was because the goals I had in mind were valuable in themselves.

Sure, this is the purely "psychological" or "existential" view of meaning. I agree that one may experience life in this way.

The tiny flaw, as I see it, is that if one starts to ask "is this all just a little subjective?" then one may wonder how easy it could have been to travel down a different path with equal ease. And that could make it feel arbitrary -- that one's choices didn't really matter.

It's interesting speaking to you about it, Mark, because I'd be interested in hearing what Aristotle had to say about this 20th century existentialist idea. He considered happiness to be equivalent with the beautiful, and the beautiful is chosen for its own sake.

I'd prefer not to be a mouthpiece for Aristotle, especially since he never did quite shrug off Plato in his ethical thought.

But I will just say this, for what it is worth. Aristotle seems to present the human good in terms of what fulfills our natural function. If happiness (eudaimonia) is beautiful, that may be because it fulfills our natural function well (and therefore beautifully). The wise man will be aware of this beauty, and he may be guided in his actions because they seem beautiful to him.

But one may still wonder... why fulfill one's natural function? Why not act contrary to this? Why is ugliness not an option? My possibly somewhat un-Nicomachean answer is that our natural function is needed for creating those values needed for our survival and flourishing as the sort of beings we are. Beauty may be an end-in-itself in certain respects, but the context in which it is an end-in-itself is our existence as rational value-creators.

Aristotle held that death was bad because it prevented us from attaining the good, which is the opposite of saying that death is good because it allows us to find motivation to attain it.

Actually, no, it isn't the opposite. One can hold both positions simultaneously, because they refer to different contexts. Death can be bad in some ways, and good in others.

I don't recall offhand if Aristotle had ever thought that death might be good in some ways, so this view probably refers to my personal perspective.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Sure, this is the purely "psychological" or "existential" view of meaning. I agree that one may experience life in this way.

The tiny flaw, as I see it, is that if one starts to ask "is this all just a little subjective?" then one may wonder how easy it could have been to travel down a different path with equal ease. And that could make it feel arbitrary -- that one's choices didn't really matter.

It could, but only assuming that intuition wasn't valid in determining the thing that is valuable to us. I think this is clearly how I live my life in the day-to-day world. For example, Kierkegaard's view of despair is directly related to what we call existential meaning; despair is the state, basically, of not pursuing not just a general idea of meaning, but your own particular meaning in the moment. How do you know you aren't in despair? Well, you feel it -- it's called happiness, I'd say. Happiness is the barometer of meaningfulness. The interesting thing here is that Aristotle and existentialism seem to share a good deal in common on this point.

But one may still wonder... why fulfill one's natural function? Why not act contrary to this? Why is ugliness not an option? My possibly somewhat un-Nicomachean answer is that our natural function is needed for creating those values needed for our survival and flourishing as the sort of beings we are. Beauty may be an end-in-itself in certain respects, but the context in which it is an end-in-itself is our existence as rational value-creators.

That's a brilliant thought. But let's consider, from an evolutionary perspective, what death really means. Human beings seem to be unique in their conceptualization and consequential fear of death. Other animals, not attaining a level of consciousness that we have, would therefore need some other sort of evolutionary cue that would keep the organism from jumping into situations that were more likely than others to bring about death. Thus they would fear, say, huge angry predators rather than death per se. But, see, if this is the case, then they fear really uncomfortable or painful situations, and we're back at the question of pain and pleasure, goodness and badness that we were before. So it's not perpetuating one's own survival that's directly evolved, but rather perpetuating those non-painful or dangerous states that would eventually lead to death, as well as (and more importantly) perpetuating those positive, flourishing states that lead to the propagation of one's genes. But if we're back at positive, flourishing states, we're back to a state that's more congruent with choosing the good for its own sake.

I'm saying that the existential fear of death doesn't quite seem to be an evolutionary construct -- at least, not a direct one. Perhaps the concept of nonexistence is inherent to consciousness, and that even though consciousness evolved by natural selection, the fear of death didn't -- it sort of came with the deal, what Gould called a "spandrel". If this is the case, then there's no evolutionary explanation for the fear of death that relates to our survival. It's not death lower animals fear, but certain evolutionary situations that typically precede death; and death as we understand it is a byproduct on consciousness not directly evolved.

Actually, no, it isn't the opposite. One can hold both positions simultaneously, because they refer to different contexts. Death can be bad in some ways, and good in others.

I can only say that death would be good if the individual was incapable of living a life of some sort of meaning or flourishing. And I don't know if such a life is possible.
 
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