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May Prophecy Interrupt a Sermon?

LinkH

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LinkH,
To return to the question being asked, we should certainly ensure that our meetings allow enough time for the Spirit to minister within the assembly by allowing up to three prophecies and three tongues with interpretation - always one at a time and in order.

Where do you get the limit of two or three prophecies in a meeting? I don't see how one can get that from the passage in question considering the surrounding context.

Why would the Holy Spirit be limited to only giving three prophetic messages in a meeting?
 
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Strong in Him

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The commandments of the Lord regarding prophecy do not say to pass the word on to the leadership team to pray first before they share it. This practice would clearly stifle the type of prophetic flow I Corinthians 14 is designed to deal with.

Paul tells us not to despise prophesies and to test everything (1 Thess 5:21). We are also told to test the spirits (1 John 4:1). And discernment is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, (1 Cor 12:10.)
Peter tells us that no prophecy from Scripture was from the prophet's own interpretation, (2 Peter 1:20.)
How are we supposed to test the prophesy and discern if it is from God or the prophet's own interpretation unless we pray about it?

How could all prophesy if they had to go through that bureaucratic process?

Anyone can prophesy or receive a word from God, but they should realise that that word will need to be tested. Otherwise how could the congregation have any confidence in it? One person could stand up and say "the Lord says this church needs to change", another could say, "the Lord says that we are on the right track and need to persevere, then we will see growth." Who is right? Is the Lord contradicting himself or is someone promoting their own agenda?

Just read some of Jeff Lucas' books and discover some of the nonsensical "words" that have been given in a service, which everyone else is left to try to interpret on their own. And look around to see some of the self proclaimed "prophets" who have predicted the end of the world on more than one occasion.

Submitting a word to the leadership team is not "bureaucratic process", it's taking the word seriously and praying about it. If someone said to you, "I have a word from God for you" would you accept it blindly without praying about it? All the books I've read about prophesy, counselling and guidance say that if someone tells you they have a word for you, they should also say, "I could be wrong; take it and pray about it." Test everything, as Paul said.
 
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Strong in Him

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Where do you get the limit of two or three prophecies in a meeting? I don't see how one can get that from the passage in question considering the surrounding context.

God is a God of order. 1 Cor 14:20-40 is about orderly worship.

"Two or three prophets should speak and the others weigh carefully what is being said" (v 20) - testing the prophesy, as he also said elsewhere.

".... be eager to prophesy ..... but everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way." (v 40)
 
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tturt

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The churches we're in -

don't interpret that Scripture to mean just 3 prophecies per meeting.

Regarding decent and in order, some miss the "but if" in the second Scripture:
27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God."
These verses are about the gifts of tongues and interpretation. A message in tongues is given twice and at the most three times, if there's no interpretation then the believer speaking the tongues portion for interpretation stops.

Also, concerning a delay after a prophetic word is given for prayer and judging the prophetic words given - same applies to messages from the gift of tongues and interpretation. In most cases, there's no delay because the praying and testing that can be done happens right then. For example, at a conference of 800, a message in tongues was given, the first believer that gave the interpretation was off, then a second believer gave an interpretation At that point the leadership and crowd immediately gave their agreement/acceptance. Allowing for even a day's delay for praying and judging would have caused the group not to get the message that was for us nor prophetic words that were said to them. The testing/proving is done after the prophetic words and after the words of interpretation are given in most cases.

As far as interrupting goes - I've also seen Yahweh work this way - one believer would begin a sentence and another believer would finish it. Sometimes they were given the end of one sentence and the beginning of another sentence. This was the way the prophetic word as given for several minutes. Since there were 6,000 people in attendance, any one of them being given a portion of that word could have held back thinking that they might interrupt another speaker and the meaning would have been screwed up. Having one believer speak the entire prophetic word wasn't what Yahweh had in mind that day.

I continue to be amazed at Him.
 
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New_Wineskin

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I would like to open up a discussion of whether it is appropriate for prophecy to interrupt a sermon. The Bible does not directly address this issue (unless the sermon is prophecy or spoken by a prophet.) I would like to share some thoughts on the issue.

Overall , it would depend on the bylaws , rules , and regulations of the group . If this isn't addressed in the written and accepted rules , it should be allowed until the group amends their current set of rules . I really don't see there being a problem with those who have been a part of the group for some time . If you are talking about someone new and the interruption is unpleasant , somone could give advice to them afterward on how the group functions so that there would be no further situations of that type with that person .

The question would be if the group desires new quests ; how welcome the group makes them ; and how the group wishes to inform the guests on what they expect from people during meetings .
 
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LinkH

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Submitting a word to the leadership team is not "bureaucratic process", it's taking the word seriously and praying about it. If someone said to you, "I have a word from God for you" would you accept it blindly without praying about it? All the books I've read about prophesy, counselling and guidance say that if someone tells you they have a word for you, they should also say, "I could be wrong; take it and pray about it." Test everything, as Paul said.

Requiring that believers submit a word to the leadership first before sharing it with the congregation isn't the commandment of the Lord on the subject that Paul gave in I Corinthians 14.

Why does a word have to go through the leaders first? Isn't the congregation supposed to judge certain matters? Isn't prophecy one of them?

Why don't we just do things the way the Lord commands? I know there are different ways of interpreting the passage in question, but I don't see how submitting the word to a leadership team is consistent with the commandments of the Lord.

Paul wrote that elders had to correct, and 'contradict the gainsayers.' Apostolic instruction for churches requires that elders clean up messes, rather than muzzle the saints to prevent them from create messes. Muzzling the saints hinders edification.
 
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Biblicist

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LinkH (# 21)

Where do you get the limit of two or three prophecies in a meeting? I don't see how one can get that from the passage in question considering the surrounding context.
Where do I get the limit of two or three prophecies!….considering the surrounding context this is the only response that is available to us.

As I have already addressed this question in my earlier post, as have many others, I think it is best to refer you back to that post and with the other posters who have also said much the same.

This is the only viewpoint that is accepted within the Full Gospel movement; there are of course some who for whatever unstated reason do choose to ignore Pauls strict admonition. It’s one thing to ignore this admonition but of course many also permit the unbridled use of corporate tongues during the main meetings which to me beggars belief.
Considering that Paul has gone to great lengths in 1Co 14 to denounce this practice, as it only serves to turn away the unbelievers and when it is unaccompanied by interpretation it does not benefit or uplift the congregation - some also choose to ignore this as well, and this has me dumbfounded!
 
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Submitting prophecies to a select few is not a good idea ...

With regard to submitting a word to the leadership team of a church, I would discourage this practice as we are told in 1Co 14 that it is up to the congregation to judge a prophecy and not with just a select few.

All too often when congregations insist that a couple of people are to vet any prophecy it usually indicates control or insecurity issues exist within the leadership structure. Remember, the Spirit provides the prophecy through the believer to the other believers and not to a select few.
 
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Strong in Him

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Requiring that believers submit a word to the leadership first before sharing it with the congregation isn't the commandment of the Lord on the subject that Paul gave in I Corinthians 14.

But it's consistent with his instruction to test everything given in 1 Thessalonians. It doesn't have to be a specific command. If we are instructed to test the spirits, and everything else, submitting a prophecy to a team of people who will pray about it, is sensible - a team means you won't just get one person's input. If a prophecy is from the Lord, he is able, and willing, to confirm it to others.

Why does a word have to go through the leaders first? Isn't the congregation supposed to judge certain matters? Isn't prophecy one of them?

You're assuming that a) a congregation will be made up entirely of Christians and b) that, even if none of them have the gift of discernment, they will all be people of prayer who know how to wait on the Lord for an interpretation and can recognise his voice above their own desires. The leadership team, in our church anyway, includes the minister, deacon, another preacher and stewards. Most of these have been prayerfully appointed, some have had training and are aware of, if not experienced in, the gifts of the Spirit. Yes, some may still get it wrong, but the benefit of a team is that you do not have one person saying "thus saith the Lord" and everyone else just has to take their word for it; you have respected, trusted Christians saying, "we've prayed about this word and we do believe that it is indeed from God."

Why don't we just do things the way the Lord commands?

The Lord himself has not commanded this. Paul is writing to a specific church that was unruly, rowdy and in which there were quarrels, as well as wrong teaching. What he said may well have beeen God's word to that church for that situation, but that doesn't mean that all churches today have to operate in this way because God has commanded us to. Did Paul tell all his other churches that this was a command from the Lord and give them teaching about prophecy - no. What did Jesus say about prophesying in church? Nothing. So how can you say that this is a command from God to be followed by every church today?

Interpreting the Bible correctly is very important.

Paul wrote that elders had to correct, and 'contradict the gainsayers.' Apostolic instruction for churches requires that elders clean up messes, rather than muzzle the saints to prevent them from create messes. Muzzling the saints hinders edification.

What?? :eek:
So you're saying that anyone can stand up in church and say anything they like - claiming it comes from God, because they have to have the right to "prophesy", and if anyone listening gets hurt/confused by the "word" and goes away believing bad teaching - that's ok, the elders will sort out the mess?

So I could stand up and say "this is God's word to you; have faith in me and you will never be depressed again. Believe in me and you will always be joyful." Someone listening to that might think, "so that means that if I'm depressed then I'm not trusting in God - I can't be a real Christian or I wouldn't be unhappy". Supposing they don't ask the Minister/elders if they have heard the word correctly but just go away and take an overdose? Or join a cult or another religion, or pass this wrong teaching on to their friends or children? Supposing they and their family eventually need counselling to sort out the mess - who is going to pay for all that? Supposing it was a member of a cult who stood up and passed on bad teaching, under the guise of having a "word from God"? Or supposing it was someone who read their horoscope and was interested in the occult? The congregation will hear that "word" and some might not have the maturity, or ability, to be able to discern the truth.

A few years ago, the minister of my church, and a few others, were standing on the street, witnessing and handing out tracts. My minister spent quite a long time with a man who had been very hurt by some of the past teachings of the church. Years of his life spent in unhappiness and away from the church because of something that the church had taught or someone had said. Was this said through a "prophecy"? Who knows, but the principle is the same. Why risk subjecting people to hurt, pain or confusion just because one person has to be allowed to stand up and say something that they believe is from God?
 
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Strong in Him

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Submitting prophecies to a select few is not a good idea ...

With regard to submitting a word to the leadership team of a church, I would discourage this practice as we are told in 1Co 14 that it is up to the congregation to judge a prophecy and not with just a select few.

All too often when congregations insist that a couple of people are to vet any prophecy it usually indicates control or insecurity issues exist within the leadership structure. Remember, the Spirit provides the prophecy through the believer to the other believers and not to a select few.

See above. We can't assume that all congregations are made up of believers. In fact I hope they aren't; churches should be reaching out to non Christians.

Even if all members are believers, how do you know they some won't just accept a word that agrees with what they themselves think?
 
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LinkH

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if you stop to think about it, the Holy Spirit does not interrupt Himself. so it is only those who are not subject to the Holy Spirit but who are ruled by their own desire to speak immediately who would be interrupting while another prophet was speaking. the exception would be if there was an emergency situation, as has been noted above.

'Interrupt' fits a lot better into the subject line than 'yield the floor for'.

I Corinthians 14:30 instructs the prophet to hold his peace for another sitting by who receives a revelation. It doesn't say for the person sitting by to interrupt, but for the first speaker to hold his peace. so 'interrupt' may not be the right word.

The issue is not one of the Spirit interrupting Himself, but of the Spirit speaking through one vessel, and then through another.

I know of one brother whose experience with this is that the Spirit moved the speaker to be quiet to let the other person continue the prophesying.
 
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talitha

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On the "submitting words to leadership" track (which I know is slightly off-track), I want to say this - the way my home church does it is that for each service there is a "gatekeeper" - and in our church that person is apostle, pastor, or elder - and whenever someone receives a word to give during worship/ministry time, that someone should go to the gatekeeper and submit the word. The gatekeeper decides before the Lord whether the word is correct and whether it is for here and now or not. If it passes both of those tests, the person gets the mike, and the word is given. I like this, because there is accountability, but we don't have to wait a week before the word is given.
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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I would like to open up a discussion of whether it is appropriate for prophecy to interrupt a sermon. The Bible does not directly address this issue (unless the sermon is prophecy or spoken by a prophet.) I would like to share some thoughts on the issue.

First of all, let us consider what prophecy is. Peter describes the nature of prophecy in Old Testament.

II Peter 2
21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The New Testament uses the same word translated ‘prophet’ to describe New Testament and Old Testament prophets. The same words are used to describe New Testament and Old Testament prophecy. There are two accounts of a man specifically identified as a ‘prophet’ after the ascension giving a prophecy. One of them, he precedes with the words ‘Thus saith the Holy Ghost’ which is quite similar to the Old Testament expression prophets used ‘Thus saith the Lord.’ In both cases, he spoke words given him by the Holy Spirit. In these cases, as it happened, he predicted the future. Not all prophecies in the Old Testament are predictions, but many are.

It stands to reason that New Testament prophecy, like Old Testament prophecy, involves speaking as moved by the Spirit of God.

Do Preachers Prophecy?
If we look up usage of the word ‘preach’ in the KJV New Testament, we see that it is used to refer to three different Greek words. These words are almost always used in the context of evangelistic proclamation of the Gospel. The apostles ‘preached’ the good news to unbelievers, to those who had not already believed the message. Much of modern ‘preaching’ is actually teaching or exhortation.

But it is also possible that a preacher may be prophesying when he speaks. If the Spirit comes on him, and he speaks as moved by the Spirit, isn’t that prophesying? The one who prophesies speaks as the Spirit moves him, what the Spirit reveals to be spoken for that time. The teacher expounds precepts that have already been revealed. Prophecy does not have to be a prediction of the future. Nor does it have to be some concept that is completely new to the audience. The Spirit says whatever He wishes.

Prophets Yielding the Floor to Others
Many people believe that it is God’s will for a church gathering to culminate in a sermon. One man, usually the senior pastor, an associate pastor, or perhaps a guest speaker, gives a 30 to 45 minute oration. One person does the teaching, and the rest fall silent. There are some believers who think that this is something sacred that cannot be tampered with. They think there must be ‘the Sunday sermon’ and that things must be done this way.

It is ironic that the Bible never instructs us that a church must have one Sunday sermon delivered by one man. There are few passages which give instructions regarding church meetings. This passage is the one passage used to argue that believers must ‘go to church.’ Notice what it says:

Hebrews 10:24-25
24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Notice the instruction here is for the readers, not to be silent and listen to an exhortation, but to exhort one another when they assemble.

None of the passages regarding church gatherings instruct us to have one long sermon delivered by a pastor while all else are silent. In I Corinthians 14, we read the longest passage.

I Corinthians 14
26How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Notice that the speaker here is not one man. There is no reference to ‘the pastor’ in I Corinthians 14. It does mention prophets speaking, but not pastors. Instead of assigning all the speaking to one man, the passage gives instructions for how ‘every one of you’ can speak or sing to edify the body in an edifying manner.

Specific instructions were given for those who would speak in tongues and interpret in the gatherings.
27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

The following passage is quite fascinating. It is clearly something most Pentecostal and Charismatic churches have not mastered.

29Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

In verse 29, Paul instructs that the prophets speak two or three and to let the other judge. This can be interpreted as referring to two or three prophets speaking, or prophets speaking two or three utterances. Perhaps Paul is saying that a judgment (or weighing carefully) must be made after two or three prophecies.

Some argue for a maximum of two or three prophecies in a church meeting. The passage does not say that.. If the Corinthians had more than three people in a meeting, then it could not be possible that all of them were allowed to prophesy one by one. Verse 24 also mentions the idea of all prophesying in a positive light.

Notice in verse 30, that if a prophet is speaking, he must yield the floor if someone else sitting by receives a revelation. Taken with verse 31, we see here that prophecy is revelatory. This is the mechanism by which ‘ye may all prophesy.’ It must be fascinating to be in a church where the Spirit speaks a message by one person, then His message moves to another, and then to another. No wonder an unbeliever, hearing the secrets of his heart made manifest through this group of believers, would fall on his face and declare that God is truly among them.

The Holy Spirit Doesn’t Interrupt Himself
I have heard it argued that no one should ever receive a prophecy to be given during a sermon because “The Holy Spirit does not interrupt Himself.” But is this a Biblical perspective on the issue? The preacher is not the Holy Spirit. And in I Corinthians 14:30 even a prophet speaking is to be silent if a revelation comes to another person.

I know some would argue against the idea of a prophet being silent for another prophet to share a revelation because Paul writes in verse 40 of this passage, “Let all things be done decently and in order.” But the order referred to in this verse is the order that God has revealed, not traditional notions of how a church meeting should be conducted.

After giving instructions regarding church meetings, including the instruction that the prophet should ‘hold his peace’ if another sitting by received a revelation, Paul wrote,

37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

If a prophet did not want to yield the floor and let someone who had received a revelation speak, he was the one who was out of order. He needed to acknowledge that Paul was giving God’s commands.

Prophecy Superior to Teaching
Paul lists a ranked order of ministries in I Corinthians 12. He ranks apostle as ‘first’ and ‘prophets’ as second, followed by teachers. While both of these ministries are essential, prophet is ranked higher.

I Corinthians 12
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Ephesians 4
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Paul urges believers to desire to prophesy. He spoke highly of all prophesying church.
I Corinthians 14
1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
(NKJV)

If a prophet should yield the floor if someone in the congregation receives a revelation, shouldn’t a teacher do the same?

A Note on Order
I am not advocating one person ‘interrupt’ another per se. Paul wrote about a prophet speaking ‘holding his peace’ when another sitting by received a revelation. Typically, in the Jewish culture of the first century, a teacher sat. Students may have stood at times to learn. Christ sat down to teach occasions. Perhaps in the church, this was reversed. Agabus stood and prophesied about a coming famine (Acts 11:28.) Peter arose to address the Jerusalem assembly. (Acts 15:7.) Perhaps the prophet speaking in I Corinthians 14:30 was standing, and when another received a revelation, he stood. The speaking prophet was to make the choice to ‘hold his peace’. The passage does not say to interrupt him, but rather for the prophet to hold his peace. This was something the prophet had to choose to do for proper order in the church meeting.

Scripture to consider:

Acts 10: 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues[b] and praising God.
 
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Faulty

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How about one asking their pastor, "If I receive a word of prophecy to share during your sermon, would you prefer if I interrupt you or hold my peace until the end?"

Seems the respectful thing to do for one to whom is in authority over you in your church.
 
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Strong in Him

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Scripture to consider:
Acts 10: 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues[b] and praising God.

This tells us that the Holy Spirit came upon the people as they were listening, not that these people immediately began to prophesy and interrupted what Peter was saying.
 
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LinkH

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How can tongues be a sign to the unbeliever if they're never spoken in church? [FONT=&quot]I[/FONT] Cor 14:22 “Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: ...”

They may be spoken in church if they are interpreted.

When unbelievers hear tongues, they often react with unbelief, and the sign is fulfilled "And yet for all that, they will not hear Me." Notice how the unbeliever reacts with unbelief in Paul's example.
 
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LinkH

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On the "submitting words to leadership" track (which I know is slightly off-track), I want to say this - the way my home church does it is that for each service there is a "gatekeeper" - and in our church that person is apostle, pastor, or elder - and whenever someone receives a word to give during worship/ministry time, that someone should go to the gatekeeper and submit the word. The gatekeeper decides before the Lord whether the word is correct and whether it is for here and now or not. If it passes both of those tests, the person gets the mike, and the word is given. I like this, because there is accountability, but we don't have to wait a week before the word is given.


Even so, that does not appear to be the method Paul describes in I Corinthians 14:29-31. I can't see but how that a process like this would hinder the type of flow Paul describes in these verses.

I don't see where the New Testament teaches that every prophetic word has to be filtered through a pastor or whatever. I don't see where Paul required that everything be filtered through him or any of the other apostles.
 
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Strong in Him

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I don't see where the New Testament teaches that every prophetic word has to be filtered through a pastor or whatever. I don't see where Paul required that everything be filtered through him or any of the other apostles.

Just because it's not there does not mean that it's forbidden or not good practice to do so. How would you suggest that people test these things, if not like this?
And maybe you have the fortune to belong to a charismatic church where gifts like this are practiced frequently, but I can tell you that if anyone stood up in my church with a "word from God", some would reject it immediately if they didn't like the sound of it. Some might accept it straight away, because it apparently came from God and they wouldn't want to argue with him. Very few know what it means to wait on God for a word or interpretation - many, I feel, don't understand what prophecy and interpretation mean.

Accepting something blindly as a "word", without any kind of testing at all, could do more harm than good.
 
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New_Wineskin

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Submitting prophecies to a select few is not a good idea ...

With regard to submitting a word to the leadership team of a church, I would discourage this practice as we are told in 1Co 14 that it is up to the congregation to judge a prophecy and not with just a select few.

All too often when congregations insist that a couple of people are to vet any prophecy it usually indicates control or insecurity issues exist within the leadership structure. Remember, the Spirit provides the prophecy through the believer to the other believers and not to a select few.

I was involved with a group that had everything go through leadership - the most controlling situation I have experienced - and I went to Catholic schools .
 
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