Biblicist wrote,
Also, you say that this is the only viewpoint that is accepted within the FUll Gospel movement. Maybe you can define Full Gospel movement. If you mean to include the Pentecostal, Charismatic, and so-called Third Wave movements, I am sure that is not true. Probably a majority of people in the movements don't have a position on the issue. Your viewpoint may be the majority view in the Assemblies of God and various other parts of the Pentecostal movement. But all that is irrelevant. The issue is what the Bible actually teaches.
Historically, I doubt the Azusa Street revival followed your interpretation. They had meetings going continuously all night long for some periods of the revival if I remember right. If a church meeting doesn't end all week, then the quote of a prophecies would be filled up may be the first day of the revival. If God wanted to move someone to speak in the meantime, I guess that would be against the rules.
Let's actually look at the verses in question from I Corinthians 14.
29Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
Notice in verse 29, if many translations, say the NIV for example, are correct, then the verse says to let two or three prophets speak, and doesn't limit how many times they can prophesy. I've read the verse can be translated or interpreted so that 'two or three' refers to their prophetic utterances. Notice 'per meeting' is not in the verse.
Let's assume that's right and look at the verses that follow. One way of looking at the verse is that an undetermined number of prophets is prophesying two or three words. The prophet who happens to be speaking is to hold his peace and let the non-prophet prophesy. In this way ye may all prophesy. 'For' in verse 31 ties it in to the thought in verse 30. The first, the speaking prophet, holding his peace, is what allows all to prophesy one by one.
Another way to look at this is to view 'prophet' loosely as referring to whoever is speaking. The prophets speak two or three words, and then judgment is made. This does not require prophecy cease after two or three words, but requires that judgement is made after two or three words.
We know that there is not a limit of two or three prophecies under either of these scenarios, since verse 31 says that 'ye may all prophesy one by one....' If there were a limit of two or three prophecies per meeting, then it would not be true that ye all may prophesy one by one. There were more than three people in the church at Corinth. (We can count more than that mentioned in the epistle. Crispus, Gaias, the household of Stephanus. If Stephanus had more than himself in his household, that's more than three right there. Acts says many believed and were baptized.)
Add to that the fact that Paul presents a good thing in a church service-- all prophesying, earlier in the chapter.
24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
This goes along with the thoughts in verses 1 and 39 which sandwich this passage in, in which Paul encourages the Corinthian believers to covet to prophesy.
Let us continue on to verse 26.
26How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
It is permissible for 'every one of you' to have a revelation, as long as it is done unto edifying. With all these people talking in church, why would people speaking specifically under the moving of the Spirit be limited to three utterances for the whole meeting, but not teachers or singers?
I think the reason churches want to interpret the passage to mean there is a cap of two or three prophecies per meeting is because they want to do their liturgy, even if it is the informal unwritten Pentecostal style liturgy, which includes a sermon from the pastor. Nowhere does Paul say to make sure one of the elders gives a long sermon in the church meeting. The instructions Paul give for church meetings are about how the different members of the Body share with one another through their gifts and talents in an orderly manner. We need to set aside the concept of church meetings inherited from Protestantism and look at the instructions in the passage.
The real irony here is that a lot of churches that teach a cap of three prophecies per meeting (if they teach on the topic at all) use the NIV, which takes 'two or three' to refer to the number of prophets:
29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.
Notice this translation does not put a cap on the number of prophecies a prophet could give. And I doubt most people who teach this cap of two or three prophets per meeting probably don't know that the Greek is ambiguous and could allow for two or three to refer to utterances.
I agree with you on that. I think part of the problem comes from the fact that some Pentecostals think that you can't speak in tongues unless God makes you. Some of the Pentecostals from Holiness type groups believe that way. AOG churches tend to have more of a prayer language type view of it. And I don't get why some of the Charismatic churches just ignore I Corinthians 14 except for a few verses used as prooftexts and tell everyone to speak in tongues. Some of churches that do this don't seem to be into studying through passages in detail.
I read your previous message in which you asserted a limit of two or three prophecies per meeting. What I am asking is how you get that from the passage in question. I don't see where you dealt with the verses and how you can see that in the verses in question. More on that below.
Also, you say that this is the only viewpoint that is accepted within the FUll Gospel movement. Maybe you can define Full Gospel movement. If you mean to include the Pentecostal, Charismatic, and so-called Third Wave movements, I am sure that is not true. Probably a majority of people in the movements don't have a position on the issue. Your viewpoint may be the majority view in the Assemblies of God and various other parts of the Pentecostal movement. But all that is irrelevant. The issue is what the Bible actually teaches.
Historically, I doubt the Azusa Street revival followed your interpretation. They had meetings going continuously all night long for some periods of the revival if I remember right. If a church meeting doesn't end all week, then the quote of a prophecies would be filled up may be the first day of the revival. If God wanted to move someone to speak in the meantime, I guess that would be against the rules.
Let's actually look at the verses in question from I Corinthians 14.
29Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
Notice in verse 29, if many translations, say the NIV for example, are correct, then the verse says to let two or three prophets speak, and doesn't limit how many times they can prophesy. I've read the verse can be translated or interpreted so that 'two or three' refers to their prophetic utterances. Notice 'per meeting' is not in the verse.
Let's assume that's right and look at the verses that follow. One way of looking at the verse is that an undetermined number of prophets is prophesying two or three words. The prophet who happens to be speaking is to hold his peace and let the non-prophet prophesy. In this way ye may all prophesy. 'For' in verse 31 ties it in to the thought in verse 30. The first, the speaking prophet, holding his peace, is what allows all to prophesy one by one.
Another way to look at this is to view 'prophet' loosely as referring to whoever is speaking. The prophets speak two or three words, and then judgment is made. This does not require prophecy cease after two or three words, but requires that judgement is made after two or three words.
We know that there is not a limit of two or three prophecies under either of these scenarios, since verse 31 says that 'ye may all prophesy one by one....' If there were a limit of two or three prophecies per meeting, then it would not be true that ye all may prophesy one by one. There were more than three people in the church at Corinth. (We can count more than that mentioned in the epistle. Crispus, Gaias, the household of Stephanus. If Stephanus had more than himself in his household, that's more than three right there. Acts says many believed and were baptized.)
Add to that the fact that Paul presents a good thing in a church service-- all prophesying, earlier in the chapter.
24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
This goes along with the thoughts in verses 1 and 39 which sandwich this passage in, in which Paul encourages the Corinthian believers to covet to prophesy.
Let us continue on to verse 26.
26How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
It is permissible for 'every one of you' to have a revelation, as long as it is done unto edifying. With all these people talking in church, why would people speaking specifically under the moving of the Spirit be limited to three utterances for the whole meeting, but not teachers or singers?
I think the reason churches want to interpret the passage to mean there is a cap of two or three prophecies per meeting is because they want to do their liturgy, even if it is the informal unwritten Pentecostal style liturgy, which includes a sermon from the pastor. Nowhere does Paul say to make sure one of the elders gives a long sermon in the church meeting. The instructions Paul give for church meetings are about how the different members of the Body share with one another through their gifts and talents in an orderly manner. We need to set aside the concept of church meetings inherited from Protestantism and look at the instructions in the passage.
The real irony here is that a lot of churches that teach a cap of three prophecies per meeting (if they teach on the topic at all) use the NIV, which takes 'two or three' to refer to the number of prophets:
29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.
Notice this translation does not put a cap on the number of prophecies a prophet could give. And I doubt most people who teach this cap of two or three prophets per meeting probably don't know that the Greek is ambiguous and could allow for two or three to refer to utterances.
I agree with you on that. I think part of the problem comes from the fact that some Pentecostals think that you can't speak in tongues unless God makes you. Some of the Pentecostals from Holiness type groups believe that way. AOG churches tend to have more of a prayer language type view of it. And I don't get why some of the Charismatic churches just ignore I Corinthians 14 except for a few verses used as prooftexts and tell everyone to speak in tongues. Some of churches that do this don't seem to be into studying through passages in detail.
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