Matthew 7 and modern day Christian hypocrisy

[Aaron Lindahl]

I hope you don't take this the wrong way Aaron, but "slow your roll" and go back and read the totality of scripture.

hat you are showing here is that you "cherry pick scripture"...what scriptures you like you post, and what scriptures you don't like...you don't post.

That's not going to get it done! You need to heed the whole counsel of God, and apply it to yourself. That is, deal with ALL the bible says about immorality, because what you're doing now is akin to manufacturing your own Christianity

I'm sorry but I disagree. My whole post is about the fact that over half of Christians cherry pick and ignore the clear teachings about adultery while they seemingly gleefully use other verses to vilify and condemn gay people with.

That said, here's what the main message of the New Testament means to me:

Matthew 7:1-5

"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

James 4:12

"God alone, who gave the law, is the Judge. He alone has the power to save or to destroy. But you--who do you think you are to judge your neighbor?"

Proverbs 10:12

"Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers over all wrongs."

Ephesians 4:2

“Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.”

Romans 14:1-13

"As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."

Titus 3:2-7

"To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior.."

James 4:11-12

"Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?"

Romans 12:16-19

"Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God.."

1 Corinthians 13:1-8

"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful.."

Matthew 6:14-15

"For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

Romans 12:10

“Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves.”

1 John 4:7-8

“Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.”

Matthew 22:36-39

“Teacher,” he asked, “which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the greatest and the most important commandment. The second most important commandment is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.’"

1 John 4:20

"If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen."

John 13:34-35

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Matthew 5:22

“But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.”

1 Peter 4:8

"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins."

Romans 12:8

“Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.”

Luke 6:37

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven.."

John 3:17

"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through Him."

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

I'm sorry but I disagree. My whole post is about the fact that over half of Christians cherry pick and ignore the clear teachings about adultery while they seemingly gleefully use other verses to vilify and condemn gay people with.

Um.. I don't know what church you go to, but adultery is not looked highly upon in any church I've been to. In fact, memberships have been revoked over it.

 

[Aaron Lindahl]

Um.. I don't know what church you go to, but adultery is not looked highly upon in any church I've been to. In fact, memberships have been revoked over it.

Um.. Luke 16:18

“Any man who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery."

The Bible says that anyone who obtains a divorce and marries another is an adulterer (unless the spouse has committed adultery first). Remember that 83% of this country identifies as Christian yet we have a 50% divorce rate for first marriages, a 67% divorce rate for 2nd marriages, and a 73% divorce rate for 3rd marriages and beyond.. A majority of divorces are a result of irreconcilable differences, not adultery, which shows that such Christians are again practicing selective morality. How many Christians are working on a second, third or fourth marriage?

 

[St_Worm2]

I'm sorry but I disagree. My whole post is about the fact that over half of Christians cherry pick and ignore the clear teachings about adultery while they seemingly gleefully use other verses to vilify and condemn gay people with.

There's nothing wrong with using individual verses as evidence to support a point of view Aaron, as long as in doing so, you don't give those verses a different meaning than God intended them to have. That's what we really mean when we speak of "cherry picking". For instance, when Madalyn Murray O'Hair used a Bible verse as proof that atheism is true, it wasn't that she misquoted Psalm 14:1, rather, she took it so completely out of context that the intended meaning of those words was lost. IOW, while the Bible absolutely says "there is no God", clearly that phrase is never meant to be understood by itself, apart from the rest of the Holy Writ.

But that's exactly what you've done with nearly every verse you've posited for us in your two threads. I'll grant that the difference between the truth and the new meaning you've assigned to these verses is more subtle (in most cases) than O'Hair's but, in the end, you've really done no less violence to the Word of God than she has.

God does not contradict Himself ... neither does His Word contradict itself. This is a given if one is seeking to do a proper exegesis (as I mentioned earlier in this thread). All of the verses/passages in the Bible must be understood in such a way that their meanings can exist in harmony with one another. If the meaning you assign to a verse diametrically opposes/contradicts the meaning of another verse, you can be sure that the meaning you have given to (at least) one of those verses is wrong.

--David

 

[Aaron Lindahl]

St_Worm2 said: "For instance, when Madalyn Murray O'Hair used a Bible verse as proof that atheism is true, it wasn't that she misquoted Psalm 14:1, rather, she took it so completely out of context that the intended meaning of those words was lost. IOW, while the Bible absolutely says "there is no God", clearly that phrase is never meant to be understood by itself, apart from the rest of the Holy Writ."


Hi David,

Psalm 14:1 doesn't say 'There is no God', it says 'The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”'

That little omission of yours pointed out, I have to ask: Is there something unclear or mistranslated in the following verse?? Is there a place in the Bible I'm unaware of that says adultery no longer means how it is defined below, or that it is okay to commit it for merely 'irreconcilable differences', and over and over??

Luke 16:18

“Any man who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery."

 

[St_Worm2]

Um.. Luke 16:18

“Any man who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery."

The Bible says that anyone who obtains a divorce and marries another is an adulterer (unless the spouse has committed adultery first). Remember that 83% of this country identifies as Christian yet we have a 50% divorce rate for first marriages, a 67% divorce rate for 2nd marriages, and a 73% divorce rate for 3rd marriages and beyond.. A majority of divorces are a result of irreconcilable differences, not adultery, which shows that such Christians are again practicing selective morality. How many Christians are working on a second, third or fourth marriage?

Hi Aaron, you here assume that Luke 16:18's, "commits adultery," refers to an ongoing "state of being" rather than a "one-time act". The truth is, neither can be proven true w/o a doubt since the verb in Matthew 19, Mark 10, Luke 16, and 1 Corinthians 7, is in the present tense (which indicates an action in process, but gives us no assessment of the action’s completion).

Only in Matthew 5:32 do we get any real help with this matter as the verb tense for "commits adultery" there is rendered in the aorist indicative. This tense is used by an author to denote a "snapshot in time" (if you will) and, along with the indicative mood, normally speaks of an event already completed.

Matthew 5:32 then, could lead us to believe that the adultery spoken of here is seen by God as an "act", not as a "state of being", but knowing this does not seem to be God's purpose in these passages. Rather, I think He simply means for us to understand that divorce is something that He takes very seriously, that it and a subsequent remarriage are seen as sinful by Him, except for the reason of unchastity. That appears to be all that God is teaching us in these passages, and trying to get them to say something else (like whether the adultery spoken of here is an "act" or a "state of being"), can only be accomplished by way of conjecture because He simply did not make that clear.

This is just the sort of question the Scribes and Pharisees pondered and then made laws about, exceeding Scriptural warrant.

Hope that helps a bit.

Yours and His,
David

 

[St_Worm2]

Hi David,

Psalm 14:1 doesn't say 'There is no God', it says 'The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”'

That little omission of yours pointed out, I have to ask: Is there something unclear or mistranslated in the following verse?? (Luke 16:18)

Hi again Aaron, the omission you speak of was her's, not mine, though I admit to using it as a hyperbole to help drive home my point. This is something I admitted to, or at least tried to indicate indirectly in my 2nd to last post to you when I said, I'll grant that the difference between the truth and the new meaning you've assigned to these verses is more subtle (in most cases) than O'Hair's.

My point remains, you cannot take a verse, in part (like O'Hair did) or in whole (or even an entire passage like you did), and divorce it from the rest of the Bible so that it says what you want it to. Surely you cannot believe that the words of the Bible would still be considered the Word of God if such a thing was done.

As to the understanding of Luke 16:18, please see my post that is just above this one.

--David

 

[ebedmelech]

I'm sorry but I disagree. My whole post is about the fact that over half of Christians cherry pick and ignore the clear teachings about adultery while they seemingly gleefully use other verses to vilify and condemn gay people with.

That said, here's what the main message of the New Testament means to me:

Matthew 7:1-5

"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

James 4:12

"God alone, who gave the law, is the Judge. He alone has the power to save or to destroy. But you--who do you think you are to judge your neighbor?"

Proverbs 10:12

"Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers over all wrongs."

Ephesians 4:2

“Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.”

Romans 14:1-13

"As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."

Titus 3:2-7

"To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior.."

James 4:11-12

"Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?"

Romans 12:16-19

"Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God.."

1 Corinthians 13:1-8

"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful.."

Matthew 6:14-15

"For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

Romans 12:10

“Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves.”

1 John 4:7-8

“Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.”

Matthew 22:36-39

“Teacher,” he asked, “which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the greatest and the most important commandment. The second most important commandment is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.’"

1 John 4:20

"If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen."

John 13:34-35

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Matthew 5:22

“But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.”

1 Peter 4:8

"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins."

Romans 12:8

“Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.”

Luke 6:37

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven.."

John 3:17

"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through Him."

I hope you're listening to many who are telling you, this is not the case. However it seems you've made up your mind it is the case.

I guess you need to figure it out for yourself. I can just as easily list scriptures and say others are violating them, based on what I think...but that too would be violating scripture.

 

[com7fy8]

Thank you, but what about: 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 ?

"For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. Expel the wicked person from among you."

In order for the Christian church to judge "outsiders", we need to be able to judge who is and who is not an outsider.

 

[com7fy8]

There are Christians who are not interested in judging homosexuals, but we do need to know gay stuff is wrong so we do not do it, ourselves.

There are people who are saying you can't help it if you have gay "tendencies" in your thoughts and feelings and emotions. But I need to know that a tendency for something wrong is a wrong tendency, and that therefore I need to submit to God, in order for Him to correct me of any wrong tendency, and change my character so I can not be effected by what is wrong.

 

[pshun2404]

Matthew 7 - "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."


The Christians who repeatedly use their measure and judgment to attack, condemn, persecute, and reject gay people with are now being measured and judged by their same standards, and are found to have fallen far short, and are shown to be full of religious hypocrisy. They have been found to be exactly as the people in Matthew 23:28 describe them. Since they took it upon themselves to judge and measure others in clear defiance of what the Bible teaches 'not' to do, they have thus brought the same judgment back upon themselves as the Bible says will happen in such situations.


Now, here are my questions to every Christian who repeatedly commits the sin listed above:


Where in the Bible does it say it's okay to repeatedly and unrepentantly ignore and disobey the teachings from Paul in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 and in 1 Timothy 2:11-12 as most Christians do today?


Where in the Bible does it say it's okay to repeatedly and unrepentantly ignore and disobey the 7th Commandment, as defined by Luke 16:18 as most Christians do today?


Why is it that almost all churches openly welcome into their congregations the following people who have committed the following unrepentant sin (as defined by Biblical Scripture), while rejecting and condemning 'unrepentant' homosexuals? Unrepentant, because so many keep divorcing and re-marrying with no rejection or negative consequences by their congregations, such as is done to homosexual people. Is there a place in the Bible where it says you can ignore the sin of people repeatedly committing adultery as defined by the Bible below, but the same people and churches who ignore that sin can repeatedly attack, condemn, and reject gay people for their perceived sins? For some strange reason, no one is able to answer these questions.... unless of course, it is because they are practicing utter religious hypocrisy.


Exodus 20:14 (One of the 10 Commandments)

"You shall not commit adultery.”


Luke 16:18

“Any man who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery."


1 Corinthians 6:9

“Do you not know that unrighteous men will not inherit the kingdom of God? Cherish no delusion here. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor any who are guilty of unnatural crime.”


So many Christians try to rationalize this but it is clear that a true follower of Jesus can neither divorce someone if the spouse has not committed adultery, nor marry someone who is divorced without becoming an adulterer themselves. There is an exception to the rule, however. If a spouse commits adultery, divorce is permissible. On the same token, the Bible also says that anyone who obtains a divorce and marries another is an adulterer. Remember that 83% of this country identifies as Christian yet we have a 50% divorce rate for first marriages, a 67% divorce rate for 2nd marriages, and a 73% divorce rate for 3rd marriages and beyond.. A majority of divorces are a result of irreconcilable differences, not adultery, which shows that such Christians are again practicing selective morality. How many Christians are working on a second, third or fourth marriage?


On the following subject of religious hypocrisy and double-standards, I'm completely aware that for most modern-day churches the following teachings are completely inconvenient and most might say, not applicable to an enlightened, modern society. Still.... why is it that almost all Churches do not obey the following New Testament teachings, and ignore them? Where in the Bible does it say it’s okay to ignore these commands?


1 Corinthians 14:34-35

“Women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.…”


1 Timothy 2:11-12

“A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.”


It quite clearly says that an adulterer cannot enter the Kingdom of God, and yet the majority of modern day congregations are all adulterers by the Bible's clear definition, and the majority of modern day congregations allow their women members to speak anytime they wish to in church, even though the Bible clearly says in the New Testament that that's forbidden. So... Please educate me on why the examples of sin, commandments, and teachings listed above can be ignored, while the sin of homosexual love and desire, cannot be.

Clearly you are mistaken on this last part. I agree it is sad that this MINORITY of Christians worldwide (mostly here in America) are so judgmental but MOST are not, certainly NOT THE MAJORITY, are adulterers....but they are fornicators...which is still a sin...

 

[Aaron Lindahl]

Clearly you are mistaken on this last part. I agree it is sad that this MINORITY of Christians worldwide (mostly here in America) are so judgmental but MOST are not, certainly NOT THE MAJORITY, are adulterers....but they are fornicators...which is still a sin...

I'm not mistaken; simply do the math. It is clearly at least half of most congregations and in many cases more than half: 83% of this country identifies as Christian yet we have a 50% divorce rate for first marriages, a 67% divorce rate for 2nd marriages, and a 73% divorce rate for 3rd marriages and beyond.. A majority of divorces are a result of irreconcilable differences, not adultery, which shows that such Christians are again practicing selective morality. How many Christians are working on a second, third or fourth marriage?

 

[Thekla]

I'm not mistaken; simply do the math. It is clearly at least half of most congregations and in many cases more than half: 83% of this country identifies as Christian yet we have a 50% divorce rate for first marriages, a 67% divorce rate for 2nd marriages, and a 73% divorce rate for 3rd marriages and beyond.. A majority of divorces are a result of irreconcilable differences, not adultery, which shows that such Christians are again practicing selective morality. How many Christians are working on a second, third or fourth marriage?

In her book, The Good News About Marriage, Feldhahn lays out what she found during her eight years of investigating the complicated, complex divorce statistics.

First, the divorce rate is way below 50 percent and much lower for those who attend church.

Feldhahn estimates the overall divorce rate for the country is around 31 percent. The studies of people who regularly go to church all show a much lower divorce rate for them.

"Maybe 15 percent, maybe 20 percent for all marriages. First marriages, second marriages, third marriages," Feldhahn explained.

Church Divorce Rate Way Lower than Anyone Thought - US - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com

(please source your statistics)

 

[Thekla]

Many people who seriously practice a traditional religious faith -- be it Christian or other -- have a divorce rate markedly lower than the general population.

The factor making the most difference is religious commitment and practice. Couples who regularly practice any combination of serious religious behaviors and attitudes -- attend church nearly every week, read their Bibles and spiritual materials regularly; pray privately and together; generally take their faith seriously, living not as perfect disciples, but serious disciples -- enjoy significantly lower divorce rates than mere church members, the general public and unbelievers.

Professor Bradley Wright, a sociologist at the University of Connecticut, explains from his analysis of people who identify as Christians but rarely attend church, that 60 percent of these have been divorced. Of those who attend church regularly, 38 percent have been divorced [1].

Other data from additional sociologists of family and religion suggest a significant marital stability divide between those who take their faith seriously and those who do not.

W. Bradford Wilcox, a leading sociologist at the University of Virginia and director of the National Marriage Project, finds from his own analysis that "active conservative Protestants" who regularly attend church are 35 percent less likely to divorce compared to those who have no affiliation. Nominally attending conservative Protestants are 20 percent more likely to divorce, compared to secular Americans [2].

The Christian Divorce Rate Myth , Christian Divorce and Remarriage Help, Resources

 

[Aaron Lindahl]

Thekla,

"To be able to post links or images your post count must be 50 or greater. You currently have 35 posts."

I’m unable to post links to the sources since I’ve only made 35 posts, so I'm vindicated of your earlier problem with me substantiating my sources by books rather than online links..

For the divorce rate for first marriages, you can go to the American Psychological Association’s website and look under ‘Marriage & Divorce’

For the divorce rate for 2nd and 3rd marriages, you can go to Psychology Today, and look at their article published under ‘The High Failure Rate of Second and Third Marriages’, published on February 6th, 2012.

For the percentage of Americans who identify as Christians, you can go to ABC News, with an article titled ‘Poll: Most Americans Say They’re Christian’

Most telling of all, which shows that your source is completely wrong.., the divorce rates in the U.S. are the ‘highest’ in the Bible Belt states.

You can go to the report from Jan. 20th, 2014 on the Patheos website, titled “Breaking news (again) : Bible Belt divorce rates high, although there are countless articles on that fact.

 

[Thekla]

Thekla,

"To be able to post links or images your post count must be 50 or greater. You currently have 35 posts."

I’m unable to post links to the sources since I’ve only made 35 posts, so I'm vindicated of your earlier problem with me substantiating my sources by books rather than online links..

For the divorce rate for first marriages, you can go to the American Psychological Association’s website and look under ‘Marriage & Divorce’

For the divorce rate for 2nd and 3rd marriages, you can go to Psychology Today, and look at their article published under ‘The High Failure Rate of Second and Third Marriages’, published on February 6th, 2012.

For the percentage of Americans who identify as Christians, you can go to ABC News, with an article titled ‘Poll: Most Americans Say They’re Christian’

Most telling of all, which shows that your source is completely wrong.., the divorce rates in the U.S. are the ‘highest’ in the Bible Belt states.

You can go to the report from Jan. 20th, 2014 on the Patheos website, titled “Breaking news (again) : Bible Belt divorce rates high, although there are countless articles on that fact.

Thank you for providing sources; as you have read these, and have the particular information at hand, it would be useful to cite the parameters of the study (what is the make-up of each group, how is this determined, rates by # of marriages, etc.).

The second article I posted (sources on page) notes a variety of findings within generalized groups - so, for example among self-identified religious married, the greater the involvement the lower the divorce rate and the more "nominal" divorce at higher rates.

Now, on the generalized claim that Christians do not treat divorce and adultery seriously, this will be harder to establish as it would require not a generalized census but a "denominational" investigation and parish by parish investigation (as a double-check on the finding).

In my own Church, persons engaged in ongoing adulterous and non-married sexual activity are refused the chalice. Likewise there is a period of excommunication in instances of divorce. To speak more generally is difficult, as this information is typically confidential (between the spiritual father and the spiritual child); the instances I have mentioned are from personal knowledge.

Further, subsequent marriage after a divorce is not the same service as for first marriages; the second marriage has a penitential character.

 

[Aaron Lindahl]

Thank you for providing sources; as you have read these, and have the particular information at hand, it would be useful to cite the parameters of the study (what is the make-up of each group, how is this determined, rates by # of marriages, etc.).

The second article I posted (sources on page) notes a variety of findings within generalized groups - so, for example among self-identified religious married, the greater the involvement the lower the divorce rate and the more "nominal" divorce at higher rates.

Now, on the generalized claim that Christians do not treat divorce and adultery seriously, this will be harder to establish as it would require not a generalized census but a "denominational" investigation and parish by parish investigation (as a double-check on the finding).

In my own Church, persons engaged in ongoing adulterous and non-married sexual activity are refused the chalice. Likewise there is a period of excommunication in instances of divorce. To speak more generally is difficult, as this information is typically confidential (between the spiritual father and the spiritual child); the instances I have mentioned are from personal knowledge.

Further, subsequent marriage after a divorce is not the same service as for first marriages; the second marriage has a penitential character.

No problem! For the parameters you'd have to go to the sites and look yourself. Interestingly enough, the state with the lowest divorce rate, Massachusetts, was also the first state to legalize same-sex marriage, in 2004. (Massachusetts’s divorce rate has actually drastically declined since legalizing it.) Of the 15 states with the highest divorce rates, all ban gays and lesbians from marrying, or at least did until this year.

It may seem counterintuitive, but divorce rates are higher in religiously conservative "red" states than "blue" states, despite a Bible-based culture that discourages divorce.

In a new study titled "Red States, Blue States, and Divorce: Understanding the Impact of Conservative Protestantism on Regional Variation in Divorce Rates," which was published in January in the American Journal of Sociology, demographer and University of Texas at Austin professor Jennifer Glass set out to discover why divorce rates would be higher in religious states like Arkansas and Alabama -- which boast the second and third highest divorce rates, respectively -- but lower in more liberal states like New Jersey and Massachusetts.

It was previously thought that socioeconomic hardships in the South were largely to blame for high divorce rates, however Glass and her fellow researchers concluded that the conservative religious culture is in fact a major contributing factor thanks to "the social institutions they create" that "decrease marital stability."

Specifically, putting pressure on young people to marry sooner, frowning upon cohabitation before marriage, teaching abstinence-only sex education and making access to resources like emergency contraception more difficult all result in earlier childbearing ages and less-solid marriages from the get-go, Glass writes in the paper.

“It’s surprising,” W. Bradford Wilcox, director of the National Marriage Project, told The Los Angeles Times. “In some contexts in America today, religion is a buffer against divorce. But in the conservative Protestant context, this paper is showing us that it’s not.”

Glass and her colleagues also concluded that the religious culture of the area permeated into the divorce rates of even the non-religious people who lived there. In other words, simply by living in counties that were dominated by conservative Protestantism, people were at a higher risk for getting divorced.

 

[Thekla]

No problem! For the parameters you'd have to go to the sites and look yourself. Interestingly enough, the state with the lowest divorce rate, Massachusetts, was also the first state to legalize same-sex marriage, in 2004. (Massachusetts’s divorce rate has actually drastically declined since legalizing it.) Of the 15 states with the highest divorce rates, all ban gays and lesbians from marrying, or at least did until this year.

As both gay marriage and gay divorce are relatively new (the latter 'newer'), it will of course take some time for the statistics to reach a longevity for real comparison with heterosexual marriage. Once sufficient time (and statistical power) have been reached, it will be helpful to engage in more pointed research: for example, monogamous vs. monogamish marriages, the newness of gay marriage and relative commitment vs. easier marriage and marriage subsequent to unplanned preganancy, rates compared by expectation and pressure (straight couples may experience greater stress rates vis a vis the ability for pregnancy concomitant with marriage), etc.

It may seem counterintuitive, but divorce rates are higher in religiously conservative "red" states than "blue" states, despite a Bible-based culture that discourages divorce.

In a new study titled "Red States, Blue States, and Divorce: Understanding the Impact of Conservative Protestantism on Regional Variation in Divorce Rates," which was published in January in the American Journal of Sociology, demographer and University of Texas at Austin professor Jennifer Glass set out to discover why divorce rates would be higher in religious states like Arkansas and Alabama -- which boast the second and third highest divorce rates, respectively -- but lower in more liberal states like New Jersey and Massachusetts.

It was previously thought that socioeconomic hardships in the South were largely to blame for high divorce rates, however Glass and her fellow researchers concluded that the conservative religious culture is in fact a major contributing factor thanks to "the social institutions they create" that "decrease marital stability."

I've lived in the south (for a decade) - 5 years in each of the Carolinas; the stats aren't surprising. One would hope the researchers do follow-up for nominal vs active in religious subsets, as this is a tentative confoundingfactor. (See post above, nominal religious tend to higher rates).

Specifically, putting pressure on young people to marry sooner, frowning upon cohabitation before marriage, teaching abstinence-only sex education and making access to resources like emergency contraception more difficult all result in earlier childbearing ages and less-solid marriages from the get-go, Glass writes in the paper.

“It’s surprising,” W. Bradford Wilcox, director of the National Marriage Project, told The Los Angeles Times. “In some contexts in America today, religion is a buffer against divorce. But in the conservative Protestant context, this paper is showing us that it’s not.”

Glass and her colleagues also concluded that the religious culture of the area permeated into the divorce rates of even the non-religious people who lived there. In other words, simply by living in counties that were dominated by conservative Protestantism, people were at a higher risk for getting divorced.

I do wonder the effect of nominalism and the culture there (itself). How did the researchers organize the study in order to conclude the causes covered in the first paragraph (above); it should take a high statistical power for the researcher to speak confidently and conclusively in that manner; what was the study group (participant) census ?

 

[prodromos]

No problem! For the parameters you'd have to go to the sites and look yourself. Interestingly enough, the state with the lowest divorce rate, Massachusetts, was also the first state to legalize same-sex marriage, in 2004. (Massachusetts’s divorce rate has actually drastically declined since legalizing it.) Of the 15 states with the highest divorce rates, all ban gays and lesbians from marrying, or at least did until this year.

Perhaps fewer people are getting married in the first place in Massachusetts? You can only get divorced if you are married after all. Do you have statistics to confirm one way or the other?

 

[Aaron Lindahl]

Hi Thekla, simply Google the following and there's a PDF you can read that answers all your questions about this:

Red States, Blue States, and Divorce :
Understanding Regional Variation in Divorce Rates
Jennifer Glass and Philip Levchak
University of Iowa

Draft submitted for the 2011 annual meeting of the Population Association of America.