Matthew 7:21-23 / Your Interpretation

[mdaniel]

Last night on the tele a well-known preacher was teaching that if you are a homosexual, an abortionist, or many other things then you are going to hell. This message was directed at Christians and non-Christians alike. That was the gist of his message.

Furthermore, he commanded as Christians we should be fighting the cultural war in America against homosexuals, abortionists, etc.

My favorite part was when he screamed that he loves the sinner but not the sin. (I'm not judging him, but I got the impression that he loves neither).


Matthew 7:21-23: (NIV)

21) Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

22) Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'


23) Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

​

I felt if someone is going to condemn me - I should try to understand on what basis. I read Matthew 7 asking the question to whom is Jesus referring?

I think he was referring to Christian preachers who are in the ministry for self-serving reasons. Perhaps some of the folks preaching the importance of tithing and "sowing a seed" while they drive a Rolls Royce and live in a multimillion dollar home.

One concern I have with the condemnation message is it drives Christians away from the church.

We know that those who have been married twice or who are greedy are no better than murderers. How do we reconcile this with salvation?

As born again Christians how do we fulfill our command to obey God? Is not the height of obeying God's word to walk in love? (1st Cor 13:4-8)?

Jesus said that we will be forgiven to the measure that we forgive, and that our greatest command was to love.

Does anyone read Matthew 7 differently?

God Bless

 

[Tenebrae]

I think there will be alot of surprises on that day.

As to whom it is referring to, not qualified to state, however I do think there will be alot of surprises

 

[Brieuse]

In my country, churches used the Bible to support apartheid.

If you take things out of context, with a complete lack of understanding of the motives behind the writings, then you can twist passages to mean anything.

 

[Tenebrae]

Theres pretty much a verse in the bible to support most things

David Koresh of the branch davidians used the example portayed by Solomon to justify polygamy

 

[brightmorningstar]

Dear mdaniel.
Its a good question. Matthew 25 is similar but more difficult.
This bit about 'Lord Lord' is in amongst the passages about watching out for false prophets and the fruit they produce and that everyone who hears Jesus words and puts them into practice.
Now my personal view is that there are two warnings here. The first is not to claim something is of Jesus in Jesus name that is clearly opposite to Jesus words. The second is that is if people merely speak the words but dont live them out in practice, the words are meaningless. The word is living and active and I think the word of God from the Bible should come from the page into our hearts and minds and 'run around' in our lives.
As to the preacher's sermon I cant really comment unless I hear it, but I would suggest Matt 7 is a warning for anyone who claims to be Christian and clearly goes against Jesus teaching.

I think he was referring to Christian preachers who are in the ministry for self-serving reasons. Perhaps some of the folks preaching the importance of tithing and "sowing a seed" while they drive a Rolls Royce and live in a multimillion dollar home.

Yes I would tend to agree unless they are in businiess and tithing and giving a billion to the poor as well. Remember Zaccheus)
The key being those who say Lord Lord we did things in your name, not non-believers who are hardly going to be doing something they dont believe.

Significantly I would also suggest that would apply to preachers who preached that same-sex sex and relationships were ok and bless them. so he was right.

I suggest that it is a warning therefore to any of us who call ourselves believers and do either things in the name of Jesus which is evidently against what Jesus teaches, or preach righteousness and willfully live sinfully without repentance.

 

[MercyBurst]

One concern I have with the condemnation message is it drives Christians away from the church.

A really good fire and brimstone sermon drives Christians to the altar, on their knees, like no other sermon I've seen. It gets positive results -- that's been my experience.

If you believe what Jesus said, then you believe hell is a real place where people are tormented forever. If Jesus was speaking in metaphors about hell, He was doing the same about heaven.

I believe it is true. It would be uncaring of me to not warn others.

As one non-christain said: "If I believed in a literal burning hell where people go for eternity, I would warn everyone."

 

[MercyBurst]

In my country, churches used the Bible to support apartheid.

In my country they use the bible to defend gay sex.

 

[livingword26]

Last night on the tele a well-known preacher was teaching that if you are a homosexual, an abortionist, or many other things then you are going to hell. This message was directed at Christians and non-Christians alike. That was the gist of his message.


I think he was referring to Christian preachers who are in the ministry for self-serving reasons. Perhaps some of the folks preaching the importance of tithing and "sowing a seed" while they drive a Rolls Royce and live in a multimillion dollar home.

Both of the above could be true. Homosexuality and murder, are spoken of in the bible, as well as greed.

 

[TheDag]

In regards to the OP I would say the passage is talking to believers (where it says not all who call me Lord Lord). The passage then goes on to say the people will respond by saying but didn't we do all kinds of wonderful things in your name. There are other passages which talk about people having the wrong motivation eg wanting to look good in front of others. God looks at our heart not the outward appeareance. Just doing the right kind of things is not the point. We need to be doing them for the right reasons also.

 

[brightmorningstar]

One concern I have with the condemnation message is it drives Christians away from the church.

I would say it drives non-Christians away.

 

[mdaniel]

As one non-Christain said: "If I believed in a literal burning hell where people go for eternity, I would warn everyone."

I would ask that non-Christian why they don't believe the bible - as if they did they would understand that there is a heaven and a hell.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Dear mdaniel,

I would ask that non-Christian why they don't believe the bible - as if they did they would understand that there is a heaven and a hell.

That non-Christian understands that the Bible refers to heaven and hell, though they dont believe it. There are Christians I know who dont believe it either

 

[UnitedInChrist]

Last night on the tele a well-known preacher was teaching that if you are a homosexual, an abortionist, or many other things then you are going to hell. This message was directed at Christians and non-Christians alike. That was the gist of his message.

Furthermore, he commanded as Christians we should be fighting the cultural war in America against homosexuals, abortionists, etc.

My favorite part was when he screamed that he loves the sinner but not the sin. (I'm not judging him, but I got the impression that he loves neither).


Matthew 7:21-23: (NIV)

21) Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.​

22) Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'​

23) Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'​

I felt if someone is going to condemn me - I should try to understand on what basis. I read Matthew 7 asking the question to whom is Jesus referring?

I think he was referring to Christian preachers who are in the ministry for self-serving reasons. Perhaps some of the folks preaching the importance of tithing and "sowing a seed" while they drive a Rolls Royce and live in a multimillion dollar home.

One concern I have with the condemnation message is it drives Christians away from the church.

We know that those who have been married twice or who are greedy are no better than murderers. How do we reconcile this with salvation?

As born again Christians how do we fulfill our command to obey God? Is not the height of obeying God's word to walk in love? (1st Cor 13:4-8)?

Jesus said that we will be forgiven to the measure that we forgive, and that our greatest command was to love.

Does anyone read Matthew 7 differently?

God Bless

Great post Mdaniel....gave me something to think about. I will not pretend to have all the answers, but i will tell you this. I'm reading a great book right now that hits many issues for me on the head. All with the heart of christianity. It splits it into the "early" christianity and the "emerging christianity". Early christianity has caused MANY to leave the church. Why? Because it was a faith that is based on meeting requirements, passing tests, and condemnation. It a nutshell, it is a faith that is based on "threat" faith...it doesn't work. Emerging christianity started coming into play about 100+ years ago. It is those that use God's core message..LOVE/ACCEPTANCE. These christians live for TODAY and try to live a loving and compassionate life in God's eye. They see God as all loving and not as someone to cast pain and suffering on his children. Because of this emerging way of practicing christianity...many have found their way back, and new followers are coming daily. Sure, there are MANY early type christians that are still around, and that's fine...it jsut doesn't work for everyone, thus, they still want to be welcomed in a LOVING God basis for faith.

God's GREATEST command is no doubt LOVE!!! It is the foundation of his entire life. For one to hold onto a God of destruction, and a God that you need to be a "mini God" in order to "impress"..they miss the entire message of Christianity. Keep in mind...when Christ walked the earth...flocks CAME TO HIM!!! He didn't limit who sat at this table...so who are we as his followers to say some are welcomed and some are not?

 

[ReformedChapin]

Great post Mdaniel....gave me something to think about. I will not pretend to have all the answers, but i will tell you this. I'm reading a great book right now that hits many issues for me on the head. All with the heart of christianity. It splits it into the "early" christianity and the "emerging christianity". Early christianity has caused MANY to leave the church. Why? Because it was a faith that is based on meeting requirements, passing tests, and condemnation. It a nutshell, it is a faith that is based on "threat" faith...it doesn't work. Emerging christianity started coming into play about 100+ years ago. It is those that use God's core message..LOVE/ACCEPTANCE. These christians live for TODAY and try to live a loving and compassionate life in God's eye. They see God as all loving and not as someone to cast pain and suffering on his children. Because of this emerging way of practicing christianity...many have found their way back, and new followers are coming daily. Sure, there are MANY early type christians that are still around, and that's fine...it jsut doesn't work for everyone, thus, they still want to be welcomed in a LOVING God basis for faith.

God's GREATEST command is no doubt LOVE!!! It is the foundation of his entire life. For one to hold onto a God of destruction, and a God that you need to be a "mini God" in order to "impress"..they miss the entire message of Christianity. Keep in mind...when Christ walked the earth...flocks CAME TO HIM!!! He didn't limit who sat at this table...so who are we as his followers to say some are welcomed and some are not?

Another self contradicting post....great. Again because the greatest command is love that doesn't mean that the other comamnds don't apply. Misrepenting the Gosple with legalism doesn't mean it changes. Also who get's to choose which commands to follow?

 

[UnitedInChrist]

Dear mdaniel,
That non-Christian understands that the Bible refers to heaven and hell, though they dont believe it. There are Christians I know who dont believe it either

I do not believe in a physical place called hell that is filled with lakes of fire. Hell has never been mentioned in the bible...as "hell"...it is a term used for suffering. Just like the devil is not a "person" but a personified being that represents evil. Is heaven a place that is physically up in the sky...most likely not, but a heaven represents the purest of euphoria that the human mind can't not grasp b/c it is beyond our scope...again, terms that the human needs to have in order to explain/understand.

 

[livingword26]

I do not believe in a physical place called hell that is filled with lakes of fire. Hell has never been mentioned in the bible...as "hell"...it is a term used for suffering. Just like the devil is not a "person" but a personified being that represents evil. Is heaven a place that is physically up in the sky...most likely not, but a heaven represents the purest of euphoria that the human mind can't not grasp b/c it is beyond our scope...again, terms that the human needs to have in order to explain/understand.

Do you believe the bible?

Rev 20:14-15
(14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
(15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 20:10
(10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception#_note-0

 

[Oscillation]

I, for one, couldn't be a Christian if I had to believe in Hell. I've known good people, more Christ-like than just about everyone here, who died as non-believers. If I believed for a second that God condemned them to never-ending torture, I'ld have nothing but seething hatred for God.

 

[UnitedInChrist]

Do you believe the bible?

Rev 20:14-15
(14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
(15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 20:10
(10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever

I believe in the bible. I do not believe in a physical place of brimstone and fire and in firey lakes of hell. I do not take my christian faith, and use it as terror, and threatening. I am not foolish enough to believe there is no such thing as evil in life..but I have always been a believer in that many fundamentalists give "satan" far too much credit. HUMAN BEINGS OURSELVES have the ability to do much evil without any temptation from 'satan'. To blame "satan" for human evil acts is a cop out and a crutch. YOU are responsible for the evil that you cast out into the world...don't blame in on a personified being. I'm not a literalist of the bible because I get meaning out of the bible. To literally read it, I'd be like those that miss the entire point of the bilbe and believe in "places" and "people" such as hell, heaven, satan, etc.. Many think God himself is a blue eyed man with a human look. Jesus yes...he was born into the human experience. God himself..again, a personified being so the human mind can get the arms around it. I'm all for personifying things like evil, God, etc...because it is easier to understand and talk about. However, I would never think of them as "people" and "places".

 

[Hentenza]

Last night on the tele a well-known preacher was teaching that if you are a homosexual, an abortionist, or many other things then you are going to hell. This message was directed at Christians and non-Christians alike. That was the gist of his message.

Furthermore, he commanded as Christians we should be fighting the cultural war in America against homosexuals, abortionists, etc.

My favorite part was when he screamed that he loves the sinner but not the sin. (I'm not judging him, but I got the impression that he loves neither).


Matthew 7:21-23: (NIV)

21) Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

22) Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'


23) Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

​

I felt if someone is going to condemn me - I should try to understand on what basis. I read Matthew 7 asking the question to whom is Jesus referring?

I think he was referring to Christian preachers who are in the ministry for self-serving reasons. Perhaps some of the folks preaching the importance of tithing and "sowing a seed" while they drive a Rolls Royce and live in a multimillion dollar home.

One concern I have with the condemnation message is it drives Christians away from the church.

We know that those who have been married twice or who are greedy are no better than murderers. How do we reconcile this with salvation?

As born again Christians how do we fulfill our command to obey God? Is not the height of obeying God's word to walk in love? (1st Cor 13:4-8)?

Jesus said that we will be forgiven to the measure that we forgive, and that our greatest command was to love.

Does anyone read Matthew 7 differently?

God Bless

These verses are directed at false teachers. Passages need to be read in context to extract the proper meaning. The narrative in context is as follows:

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. 21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'


False prophets will come prophesing in Christ name but their fruit will be bad fruit. You can tell a good prophet by its fruit. A bad prophet or bad evangelist will bear bad fruit while a good one will bear good fruit.
These passages have nothing to do with abortion or homosexuality unless a bad abortionist or a bad homosexual comes prophesing God's word.

 

[mdaniel]

These passages have nothing to do with abortion or homosexuality unless a bad abortionist or a bad homosexual comes prophesing God's word.

And that's exactly the point.

When I hear preachers taking things out of context (and this happens -all- the time) I'm left with the conclusion that the only way to live in victory is to read the bible for yourself.

I'm not going to allow anyone to condemn me or mislead me based on their religion or their interpretation of the bible.

We are commanded to read God's word for ourselves.. I'm blessed every time I open my bible.

In God's word we discover our purpose. I don't need to hear condemnation because I know why we were created. God created us for fellowship. He wanted some pals. And he gave us freewill to make it meaningful.

If all God wanted was something to worship him he could have stopped creation after the angels, or created us without freewill.

But that's not how God works. He wants us to decide to live for him. To share our lives with him. God gives us favor, makes us the head and not the tail, gives us power of attorney (the use of his name), etc..

And what do we have to do? Believe in him. How does true faith express itself? In love.

God bless.