Matthew 6:5-6

[dianalee4jc]

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (Matthew 6:5-6 NIV)

Matthew Henry's commentary says this about these verses:

Verse 5-8 - It is taken for granted that all who are disciples of Christ pray. You may as soon find a living man that does not breathe, as a living Christian that does not pray. If prayerless, then graceless. The Scribes and Pharisees were guilty of two great faults in prayer, vain-glory and vain repetitions. "Verily they have their reward;" if in so great a matter as is between us and God, when we are at prayer, we can look to so poor a thing as the praise of men, it is just that it should be all our reward. Yet there is not a secret, sudden breathing after God, but he observes it. It is called a reward, but it is of grace, not of debt; what merit can there be in begging? If he does not give his people what they ask, it is because he knows they do not need it, and that it is not for their good. So far is God from being wrought upon by the length or words of our prayers, that the most powerful intercessions are those which are made with groanings that cannot be uttered. Let us well study what is shown of the frame of mind in which our prayers should be offered, and learn daily from Christ how to pray.

Some people use this verse to argue against public prayer. Is this the point that Jesus is making? If so, is it improper to pray before a meal in a restaurant? What is your understanding of the verse and the commentary?

Thanks!

 

[PujolsisbetterthanBonds]

Perhaps I'm oversimplifying it, but the passage is dealing with the Pharisees issues of pride and arrogance in the market place. They were praying to be heard. They wanted people to think of them as wise; etc., etc; Jesus often blasted them for their holier than thou attitudes and a lack of true sincerity. He says much the same thing about fasting -- wearing a long, painted face so that everyone would know you were fasting. The emphasis is on sincerity not scenery. The Lord cares not where you pray but the attitude of your heart when you pray. A broken and a contrite heart will never be turned away, whether you are in your prayer closet or Wendy's!

 

[ILoveYeshua]

well my mom, a christian, works at bob evans as a waitress, and she frickin hates it when a big group of holy rollin christians comes in after church and does a revival in booth 3 and tips her a quarter for the table. hypocrite scum.

 

[ILoveYeshua]

Guess what, Jesus was right - pray in private.

 

[ILoveYeshua]

if youre gonna do that, tip $50.

 

[ILoveYeshua]

The Lord cares not where you pray

> But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray

duh?

 

[PujolsisbetterthanBonds]

well my mom, a christian, works at bob evans as a waitress, and she frickin hates it when a big group of holy rollin christians comes in after church and does a revival in booth 3 and tips her a quarter for the table. hypocrite scum.

I agree it's wrong to not tip your waitress but "hypocrite scum" seems kind of harsh don't you think? Your next thread says "Jesus was right. Pray in private." On what hermeneutical principles do you state that to be the case?

Go Cards!

 

[PujolsisbetterthanBonds]

> But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray

duh?

What about praying in church -- that's a public place. Or how about the Jews at the Wailing Wall -- that's a real public place. How about praying for people in a hospitial room or along side a car accident victim? Jesus Himself prayed for people on the streets of Jerusalem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The truth is that prayer is welcome anywhere, anytime. To be sure, there are some who seem to make it a show and pray as loud as they can so that everyone hears them -- but that thought has already been covered in this thread.

Go Cards!

 

[dianalee4jc]

My understanding is that the passage is addressing hypocracy, and seeking glory for oneself rather than for God. When Jesus said "they have their reward," their reward was that they got what they wanted... which was to be seen as "holy" by men. If you read the whole context you will see that Jesus' entire speech was dealing with hypocracy. So... is it hypocritical to pray in a restaurant before a meal? I suppose that depends upon your heart. Didn't Jesus pray before the people gathered at Lazarus' tomb? That was certainly public. And He stated His intent:

"Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me." (John 11:41,42)

Elsewhere Paul writes:

And prayin the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints. (Ephesians 6:18)

and...

Be joyful always; pray continually; give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. (1 Thessalonians 5:16-18)

Do we have a contradiction here or is there another way of understanding it? I think there's another way of understanding it. I think the key thing is motive, not place. Billy Graham stands on a stage and prays before multitudes of people... is he a hypocrit? I don't think so. Is he doing wrong? No... he's doing God's work.

So I think this is a matter of the heart and one's motive. Those "holy rollers" in a restaurant may have right motives or bad... I agree that leaving a bad tip doesn't reflect well on them. But I could give plenty of examples of generous tips left by church groups, since I was in the group! So this doesn't prove anything, really. Let's look at Scripture for the answer.

Cheers,
Diana

 

[ILoveYeshua]

if you're gonna bless your food and give thanks for it in a restaurant, thats one thing. but when everyones closing their eyes and holding hands and the waitress is standing there patiently to take your order and... well you get my point. its just annoying. i dont mind people praying in church (i know i didnt make that clear) or in church bible study groups or places where that is the intent.

but you always gotta question your motives when you pray in public, ask yourself is this really the right place or should i just pray in my heart this time? like we know Christ was constantly in prayer to His Father, but he wasn't always praying out loud. and he often went off to be separate from his disciples to pray, but he also prayed with them sometimes, generally to instruct them in some manner it seems tho.

just dont go havin a revival in booth 3, do your bible studies in private if possible. if you wanna go and preach the gospel, or teach in public, thats different than praying, since it must be done in public. common sense is all i ask. And Christ reccomends shutting your door. seems indicative of privacy.

 

[cathromang]

if you're gonna bless your food and give thanks for it in a restaurant, thats one thing. but when everyones closing their eyes and holding hands and the waitress is standing there patiently to take your order and... well you get my point. its just annoying. i dont mind people praying in church (i know i didnt make that clear) or in church bible study groups or places where that is the intent.

but you always gotta question your motives when you pray in public, ask yourself is this really the right place or should i just pray in my heart this time? like we know Christ was constantly in prayer to His Father, but he wasn't always praying out loud. and he often went off to be separate from his disciples to pray, but he also prayed with them sometimes, generally to instruct them in some manner it seems tho.

just dont go havin a revival in booth 3, do your bible studies in private if possible. if you wanna go and preach the gospel, or teach in public, thats different than praying, since it must be done in public. common sense is all i ask. And Christ reccomends shutting your door. seems indicative of privacy.

Some groups have no place else except some places like that. I wouldn't fault them for having meetings there. I would fault them for being rude. There are rude, inconsiderate Christians unfortunately. Sometimes I have to repent for being that way.
If they make your Mom wait - I would say something like "hey, while ya'll are praying I'm going to go get fishes and loaves for the other five thousand."
Or a quarter tip? "Hey, thanks for the widow's mite!"

No, I wouldn't say that. But I would have to pray to not say something like that, cause I'm a sinner just like they are...and rudeness is rudeness no matter what religion you are.

 

[Nazaroo]

Is "frickin" short for "fried chicken", or something even less savoury?

 

[cathromang]

Is "frickin" short for "fried chicken", or something even less savoury?

uhm...it's a more "acceptable" term for another slang word that starts with an "F" and ends with a "G".

 

[adnilgnav]

I think those verse deals with what has been said. Adding to what has been said these verses to me distinguishes public prayer and private prayer, we don't want someone praying or crying their hearts out in public, others will think they are insane?

On another note: Why do we have to discriminate someone base on their expression of religion? I don't believe in tipping in fact i never tip. At my job, I do and I go as far as i can to satisfy or meet the demand of my clients and that is all part of the work that i do. So i do not tip anyone and i don't expect anyone to tip. Some things have just got to be from the heart.

 

[dianalee4jc]

A couple of points... usually people pray OVER the food, not before they place their order. Also, I don't think we should be so quick to judge anyone just becaue we might be inconvenienced.

adnilgnav... are you aware of the fact that waiters and waitresses make much less than minimum wage per hour? It is expected that they will make their living based upon tips. Last time I worked as a waitress I made about $2.00 per hour while the minimum wage was over $5.00 per hour. Perhaps you might want to reconsider not tipping.

 

[ILoveYeshua]

If they make your Mom wait - I would say something like "hey, while ya'll are praying I'm going to go get fishes and loaves for the other five thousand."
Or a quarter tip? "Hey, thanks for the widow's mite!"

AWESOME! i like that. *rep* i'll mention those to her, i'm sure she'll LOVE that.

 

[ILoveYeshua]

On another note: Why do we have to discriminate someone base on their expression of religion? I don't believe in tipping in fact i never tip. At my job, I do and I go as far as i can to satisfy or meet the demand of my clients and that is all part of the work that i do. So i do not tip anyone and i don't expect anyone to tip. Some things have just got to be from the heart.

Unbelievable greed in your heart apparently. Give to the poor or lose the christian icon.

You know waitresses don't even get "minimum wage" right? They get $2.13 an hour and their employer lays heavy burdens of rules they must follow or they get fired. YOU ARE EXPECTED TO TIP!!! Astounding. Really truly astounding, and sickening. If you have enough money to eat out at a restaurant, you have enough to tip like you should according to the cultural standard. The law expects you to tip, since the law expects waitresses to get paid less than everyone else.

AND Why isn't the "minimum wage" really the lowest wage an employer can pay? I thought that was the DEFINITION of minimum. The injustice in this country is sickening, and its perpetuated by people who don't tip.

 

[adnilgnav]

I don't want to judge anyone on their occupation because it is their decision. If waitressing pays below minn. than why bother is my question. we work twice as hard at our jobs to make good money i suggest everyone does the same. You don't tip the builder of your dream house do you i'm sure you are rich when you can have your dream house. How can you say that waiters and such are the poor? How can you classify that as poor? when they have a roof over their heads. Everyone is a poor person, poor is the bum on the street, poor is the man who can't find a job, poor is the child who doesn't have dinner. "give to the poor or give up the christian icon" so now there are standards to being a christian now right? Really now, i can't enter the kingdom of God now right, i'm just going to burn in hell for not tipping off a waitress or waiter. Hmmm... I think that statement can be turn straight around too.

 

[ILoveYeshua]

so you're gonna keep on stiffing waiters who work hard to serve you?

 

[adnilgnav]

i believed that I answered that question from the beginning.