Matthew 5

[cyberlizard]

here is chapter five of my translation of Matthew (see Untitled 1 for the whole book)...

[FONT=&quot]5.1[/FONT][FONT=&quot]When he saw the local people he went up the hillside and sat down and his apprentices came to him: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]2[/FONT][FONT=&quot]and he opened his mouth and taught them, saying, [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]3[/FONT][FONT=&quot]blessed are those who are poor in spirit, for the kingdom of heaven is made up from people like those.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4[/FONT][FONT=&quot]blessed are those who lament and mourn, they will be comforted.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5[/FONT][FONT=&quot]blessed are those who are gentle and meek, they will inherit the land.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6[/FONT][FONT=&quot]blessed are those who are hungering and thirsting for righteousness, they will receive satisfaction.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7[/FONT][FONT=&quot]blessed are those who show mercy for they will receive mercy.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8[/FONT][FONT=&quot]blessed are those who are clean and pure hearted, they will see God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9[/FONT][FONT=&quot]blessed are those who make peace, they will be called sons of God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10[/FONT][FONT=&quot]blessed are those who have been persecuted and mistreated on account of doing what is right, the kingdom of heaven is for them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11[/FONT][FONT=&quot] you will be blessed when they revile you and persecute and mistreat you, and say all kind of lying wickedness about you because of me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Be happy and full of strength [joy], your payment in heaven is great: They persecuted and mistreated the prophets before you.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]13[/FONT][FONT=&quot]You are the salt of the land, but should the salt ever lose its saltiness how can it be made salty again? It is good for nothing except to be thrown out under people's feet. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]14[/FONT][FONT=&quot]You are the light of the world. A city on a hillside cannot be hidden. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]15[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Neither do people light candles and place them under a jug, but they place them on a candlestick, and it shines its light to all in the house. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]16[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Therefore let your light shine in front of you so that people may see it and see your good deeds and give honour to your Father in heaven.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]17[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Do not suppose and infer that I have come to overthrow by poor exposition the Torah or the Prophets, I have not come to overthrow them by misinterpreting them but to completely explain them, bringing out their fullness so that they run over with meaning[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]18[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Truly, I say to you, heaven and earth will not pass away, and not one yod or stroke to a letter will disappear from the Torah until everything has been completed[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]19[/FONT][FONT=&quot]If someone annuls even one of the lighter commands and teaches other people to do the same, they shall be called the lightest in the kingdom of heaven, but who ever should carry them out and teach others to do the same, this person shall be called a heavy weight in the kingdom of heaven[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]20[/FONT][FONT=&quot]I say to you, unless your level of charity is greater than that of the Torah teachers and Pharisees you shall not enter into the dominion and kingdom of heaven[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]21[/FONT][FONT=&quot]You heard it declared to the people of old that [/FONT]you shall not murder[FONT=&quot] and whoever murders shall be subject to judgement[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]22[/FONT][FONT=&quot]But I say to you that everyone being angry with his own people shall be liable to be judged. Anyone who says to his fellow man, 'raca' which means good for nothing shall be brought to the council, yet whoever says ‘fool’ shall be in danger of the fires of Gey-Hinnom [Hell][/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]23[/FONT][FONT=&quot]So if you ever come to bring an offering, a gift of sacrifice to the altar and whilst there you remember that one of your people has something against you;[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]24[/FONT][FONT=&quot]leave your offering of sacrifice there in front of the altar and go and renew your friendship and then offer your gift[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]25[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Agree quickly with your opponent while you are on your way with him, in case your opponent hands you over to the judge, and he to the deputy who will throw you into prison[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]26[/FONT][FONT=&quot]I tell you the truth, you shall not come out of there until you have paid the last quadran [very, very small amount of currency][/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]27[/FONT][FONT=&quot]You have heard it said that [/FONT]you shall not commit adultery.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]28[/FONT][FONT=&quot]But I say to you, that every one looking at a woman to lust after her for his own has already committed adultery with her in his heart[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]29[/FONT][FONT=&quot]If your right eye is leading you to sin rip it out and throw it away, for it is better for you that it should be lost than for your body to be thrown into Gey-Hinnom[/FONT][FONT=&quot], [/FONT][FONT=&quot]30[/FONT][FONT=&quot]and if your right hand leads you into sin cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to have lost the limb than for your whole body to be cast into Gey-Hinnom[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]31[/FONT][FONT=&quot]It was said that whoever should [/FONT]dismiss his wife should give to her a ‘get’.[FONT=&quot] [letter of divorce][/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]32[/FONT][FONT=&quot]But this is what I say to you. Every one who divorces his wife for any reason apart from sexual actions outside of the marriage causes her to commit adultery and whoever marries her commits adultery also[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]33[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Again, you have heard it said to those of old, [/FONT]you shall not break an oath [FONT=&quot]and [/FONT]fulfil what you have sworn to YHVH.[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]34[/FONT][FONT=&quot]I say to you, do not make an oath on either heaven where the throne of God is[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]35[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Neither by the land for that is His foot stool; neither by Yerushalayim as that is the city of the great King[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]36[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Neither swear by the hair on your head as you are not able to make one hair change white to black[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]37[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Let the word you say be definitely yes or no; anything more is from the evil one[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]38[/FONT][FONT=&quot]You heard it said, [/FONT]eye for eye and tooth for tooth:[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]39[/FONT][FONT=&quot]But I say to you, do not resist (an) evil (person), anyone who slaps your right cheek, turn him the other as well[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]40[/FONT][FONT=&quot]And if any one wants to sue you and take your tunic let him have the outer garment also[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]41[/FONT][FONT=&quot]If a (Roman) soldier forces you to go a thousand paces, go with him two[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]42[/FONT][FONT=&quot]To the person that asks something of you and wishes to borrow something do not turn them away[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]43[/FONT][FONT=&quot]You heard it said, you shall [/FONT]love your neighbour[FONT=&quot] and you shall hate your enemy[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]44[/FONT][FONT=&quot]But I say to you, entertain and welcome your enemies and keep praying for those who persecute you[/FONT][FONT=&quot]; [/FONT][FONT=&quot]45[/FONT][FONT=&quot]so that you may become sons of the Father in heaven. He makes the sun rise on the evil and good natured, on those who do right and those that do wrong[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]46[/FONT][FONT=&quot]If you only love those who love you, what’s the payback for that! Even the tax collector does that![/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]47[/FONT][FONT=&quot]And if you only love your own people are you any better than others. Even the Gentiles do that![/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]48[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Then you shall be lacking nothing, as your heavenly Father is lacking nothing[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]

 

[wildboar]

3[FONT=&quot]blessed are those who are poor in spirit, for the kingdom of heaven is made up from people like those.[/FONT]

What is the thinking behind translating this as "for the kingdom of heaven is made up from people like those" rather than "because theirs is the kingdom/reign of heaven"? Why did you decide to translate many of the Greek words with two different English words such as "lament and mourn"?

 

[cyberlizard]

if you treat yourself to some texts by Brad Young or even a book like 'understanding the difficult words of jesus' all will become clear... particularly pertinent are pages 61-65 which discusses at length the idiomatic usage of the phrase 'kingdom of heaven'. This also draws a parable with the phrase kingdom of God/Heaven in the parable of the 10 virgins where it is clear the phrase refers to the people of God rather than either the rule/dominion or the age to come.

As to why I chose a couple of words rather than one is simply to allow the text to amplify itself... many words have shades of meaning... just look at the amplified version.

I think the best way to understand my translative principles is to visit my website and read the blurb before the translation begins.


Steve

p.s. I was just about to give a quote from Jesus the Jewish Theologian, but I have just looked above my monitor and my most used books and remembered I have loaned it out. When I get it back (maybe another month or so) I will return back to this thread

 

[wildboar]

if you treat yourself to some texts by Brad Young or even a book like 'understanding the difficult words of jesus' all will become clear... particularly pertinent are pages 61-65 which discusses at length the idiomatic usage of the phrase 'kingdom of heaven'. This also draws a parable with the phrase kingdom of God/Heaven in the parable of the 10 virgins where it is clear the phrase refers to the people of God rather than either the rule/dominion or the age to come.

I understand that the kingdom/reign of God is a present reality. I was just wondering how you got from what the Greek seems to say pretty clearly "theirs is the kingdom of heaven" to "the kingdom of heaven is made up from people like those." Your translation seems to suggest that the kingdom does not belong to the "poor in spirit" but is made up of people who are like the poor in spirit and makes a distinction between the two that is not found in the Greek.

As to why I chose a couple of words rather than one is simply to allow the text to amplify itself... many words have shades of meaning... just look at the amplified version.

I guess I'm not thrilled about translations such as the Amplified version because they can be misleading. Just because a Greek word can have a certain nuance in a particular context doesn't mean that it always has that meaning. Meaning is determined by context and not by arriving at the "original meaning" of a word. Just think if you took the English word "set" and tried to incorporate every nuance of the word when you translated it into another language. Or the Greek word luw. It means release, destroy, or atone for but doesn't mean all these things in any given context.

And I also think it can be confusing. Just as an example in verse 4, you have "Blessed are those who lament and mourn." It seems that someone could come the conclusion that if they are only lamenting and not mourning it does not apply to them or if they are only mourning and not lamenting it does not apply to them. I'm having a hard time seeing what is gained by the additional word. What nuance do you see in lamenting that is important to the given context that would not be understood with a simple "Blessed are the ones mourning"?

 

[cyberlizard]

I answered your question....

We have the gospels recorded in greek... however, the hearers of Jesus' words would have primarily spoken hebrew/aramaic and so I think it better to step back from the greek and translate it as it would be had it been written in the language of the hearers... then the translation would be somewhat more akin to what I have provided.

I really do recommend 'understanding the difficult words of jesus' it is not an expensive book.

that said though, the purpose of my translation is not to provide a literal word for word translation there are plenty of those around already. My translation principles are outlined on my webpage, however the text of my translation is currently being edited (slightly).


Steve

 

[wildboar]

cyberlizard:

So what Aramaic and/or Hebrew words do you believe would have been present that would have been translated as we find them here in the Greek?

 

[cyberlizard]

treat yourself to the book I mentioned.... even in this current economic climate I am sure you could afford it... here's a link - it can be purchased for $8.


Steve

 

[wildboar]

cyberlizard:

I've got a rather lengthy stack of books that I would like to read and am always a little skeptical about someone who claims to have special insight and can tell me how everyone got it wrong. I'm especially skeptical of those who try to take Jewish writings written hundreds and hundreds of years after the life of Jesus (and after all the very significant changes in Judaism that happened after the destruction of the temple) and then read use those to interpret the New Testament Scriptures. I was more interested in your particular translation. I assumed that since you had translated the verses in a particular way that you believed that the Greek itself had been translated from the Hebrew and that you had some belief about what the Hebrew reading was. I was just curious what you believed the Hebrew said there. Are you saying that you aren't really going through that process but just copying from this other book or what? If somebody asks me why I translate a given passage a certain way I don't go tell them to buy a book. I explain the thought process and so forth.

 

[cyberlizard]

the greek is perfectly adequate, and a literal translation would be exactly as you gave it, but this verse in question (as well as exactly the same greek construct a few verses later)... but a literal translation is not always best.

the truth is though mine is a semantic difference, the actual outcome of the verse essentially remains the same....

If you find this verse difficult, you'll struggle even more with chapter 6.


Steve