Matthew 5:3 - Understanding Suffering

[KaieraAi]

This week I am focusing on the first BeAttitude from the sermon on the mount, but I can't seem to understand this part just yet. "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven."

A devotional that is going along with this reading makes a point to say that we must mourn to be happy, we suffer to feel God's comfort. But why is that? If God never wanted us to feel pain or suffering, He never wanted us to see sin, how could that be a key point to knowing Him?

I'm just not sure I understand exactly how our God of unending mercy could possibly want us to suffer. Or how He would use terrible experiences as leverage to make us love Him. That doesn't seem right, and I don't think that's what this really means, I just can't figure out what it's really about.

 

[razzelflabben]

This week I am focusing on the first BeAttitude from the sermon on the mount, but I can't seem to understand this part just yet. "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven."

A devotional that is going along with this reading makes a point to say that we must mourn to be happy, we suffer to feel God's comfort. But why is that? If God never wanted us to feel pain or suffering, He never wanted us to see sin, how could that be a key point to knowing Him?

I'm just not sure I understand exactly how our God of unending mercy could possibly want us to suffer. Or how He would use terrible experiences as leverage to make us love Him. That doesn't seem right, and I don't think that's what this really means, I just can't figure out what it's really about.

First, just because some people don't understand this...suffering entered the world because of sin and that suffering affects every single one of us and well as our contributing to that suffering every single time we sin.

But more directly to your question. Suffering does a few things for us. 1. it teaches us especially to humble ourselves, 2. it reminds us that sin is not our friend but an enemy of sorts. In fact, notice the punishments in Gen. they are there to remind us not to sin. 3. suffering reminds us of Christ's sacrifice for us and thus shows the depths of our Love for God. and 4. suffering helps us to be able to relate to others without judgment.

Those are the first ones that come to mind if I think of another I will post it, it's been a little while since I did an in depth study on suffering.

 

[1watchman]

True, Razzel, and one can see a Godly example of suffering with the Lord at the Testimonies section of CF with the site: Mike's Blessings. That is remarkable.

 

[KaieraAi]

I understand what it does but not why it's necessary. There is a difference between something being useful and necessary, you know? Like we see these things when we suffer, but are we supposed to? Because it seems like we can't experience these important things without suffering, but we were never supposed to suffer in the first place, so why are these pulls to faith only accessible through suffering?

 

[razzelflabben]

I understand what it does but not why it's necessary. There is a difference between something being useful and necessary, you know? Like we see these things when we suffer, but are we supposed to? Because it seems like we can't experience these important things without suffering, but we were never supposed to suffer in the first place, so why are these pulls to faith only accessible through suffering?

because we sinned...we meaning all of mankind. We ruined God's perfect plan by inviting sin into our world over remaining in fellowship with God.

If that doesn't answer the question I'm not sure I understand the question. We love sin more than we love God. Thus suffering is a necessary part of our world because of what suffering accomplishes in us or should anyway.

 

[KaieraAi]

because we sinned...we meaning all of mankind. We ruined God's perfect plan by inviting sin into our world over remaining in fellowship with God.

If that doesn't answer the question I'm not sure I understand the question. We love sin more than we love God. Thus suffering is a necessary part of our world because of what suffering accomplishes in us or should anyway.

Jesus died on the cross. He took all the sin and suffering in the world, and defeated it.

We will experience suffering. Just like how we will feel rain, the sun will rise and set, ect. It is inescapable, because we do sin. Yes, I understand that. But we are not supposed to. It is not mandatory. If a person, by some miracle, was to live their life without suffering, would they be damned? That seems wrong. The world is full of sin but if we are supposed to suffer for it that just nullifies the price Jesus paid on the cross! It would mean we compare how close we can be to God by how painful our lives are. It's all wrong.

There is a difference between knowing we will be blessed when we do suffer, and thinking we can only be blessed by suffering. You see? The second idea makes no sense.

 

[razzelflabben]

Jesus died on the cross. He took all the sin and suffering in the world, and defeated it.

We will experience suffering. Just like how we will feel rain, the sun will rise and set, ect. It is inescapable, because we do sin. Yes, I understand that. But we are not supposed to. It is not mandatory. If a person, by some miracle, was to live their life without suffering, would they be damned? That seems wrong. The world is full of sin but if we are supposed to suffer for it that just nullifies the price Jesus paid on the cross! It would mean we compare how close we can be to God by how painful our lives are. It's all wrong.

There is a difference between knowing we will be blessed when we do suffer, and thinking we can only be blessed by suffering. You see? The second idea makes no sense.

Okay, I think I am slowly getting clarity, thank you for clarifying and please be patient if I am not getting it yet.

When Jesus died, He died to do away with sin and death, not suffering. Suffering cannot go away until we all decided to stop inviting sin into our world which isn't about to happen any time soon. Instead every sin committed invites both sin and suffering into our world.

That being said, Christ did die to put an end to sin and death but that is an individual matter in which we share in His suffering so that others can see the beauty of the Christ revealed in the world. In fact, I am not even sure where you get the idea that Christ died to put an end to suffering. He died to break the bond that sin has over us which I have experienced and seen experienced many times over. Not only did He give us the power over sins in our own life but He gave us power to not be held hostage to the sins of others. It is sins that bring suffering but we don't have to serve sin either our own or the sins of others.

Does that answer it?

Maybe it will help if I know where you are getting the idea that Christ died to end suffering?

 

[KaieraAi]

Let me add on, I'm wrestling with this.

There are three types of suffering:

1. Suffering from our own sin
2. Mourning for the sin of the world
3. Suffering because of personal losses

When we suffer from our own sin, it's just common sense. We have done evil, or hurt others, we have done things that don't align with God, and those lead us down a destructive path. We mourn and we suffer, and we feel the comfort of God. That makes sense. We are suffering because we sinned, but God is there in that time and He reminds us what the true path is, what true love is, that He is there and He wants us closer to Him, closer and more important than the evil we loved.

When we mourn for the sin of the world, we are loving with the Heart of the Father. We see God's children, our brothers and sisters, destroying one another, and it hurts us and brings us sorrow. It also reminds us just how evil sin is and how much we should avoid it, how closely we must cling to God, and how it is our duty to go into the world and spread the gospel.

But what about freak accidents? Natural disasters? Family and friend's deaths that are sudden and jarring? Perhaps this is because I am still working through grief and loss of this kind, but this seems unfair and wrong. These things happen not because of our sin, but because there is sin in the world and it has made us all flawed and imperfect. It has made bad things happen even to the undeserving. But we should not have to feel these types of suffering in order to be blessed, right? We aren't supposed to be crushed by unfair grief and loss. That feels like bullying, if God wants that to happen. That's what I'm struggling with.

 

[razzelflabben]

But what about freak accidents? Natural disasters? Family and friend's deaths that are sudden and jarring? Perhaps this is because I am still working through grief and loss of this kind, but this seems unfair and wrong. These things happen not because of our sin, but because there is sin in the world and it has made us all flawed and imperfect. It has made bad things happen even to the undeserving. But we should not have to feel these types of suffering in order to be blessed, right? We aren't supposed to be crushed by unfair grief and loss. That feels like bullying, if God wants that to happen. That's what I'm struggling with.

ah...more clarity...thanks! First let me say I am sorry for your loss. We lost our son suddenly about 7 years ago and our children never did deal with it so not some of them are pulling away. Point being, I am crying with you.

Now natural disasters and such sufferings. God is sovereign this is true but He also limits His sovereignty. For example, we have free will is a limit God puts on His sovereignty. Likewise, setting things in motion is also one of the limits God puts on His sovereignty. Things happen because He set the world in motion and in that allows it to rain on the just and the unjust equally. It's a limit God put on His creation because of their defiance. Why? Why do loved ones die? Why do we have to be in the middle of a hurricane? Why do earthquakes take our lives? These are individual questions for God to answer in His time.

Let me share a story. Leap day of 1980 I was hit by a train. The train hit where the door and the front fender meet and threw my car off the tracks. When the car stopped I miraculously got out of the car. In fact, I had two cuts and some bruises but the only thing that could be salvaged from the car was one tire. I should have been dead. Which might sound like the miracle but well meaning brothers and sisters told me that I would draw closer to God through that suffering. I didn't. For years I struggled with the reason for that suffering. Eventually I asked God to reveal the reason. Well, He gave me Romans 8:28 as a promise and so one afternoon a co worker and I talked and I told her that I had to rely on God's promise no matter. She asked me to work for her and that evening she borrowed a car from a friend and drove to a railroad crossing and sat on the tracks. She told that she saw the train coming and in that moment thought about what I said and drove off the tracks. Today that woman is alive because I endured suffering on her behalf and God honored that.

I don't know all the good God has planned for our suffering but He promises that it will not be in vain. Even Joseph said, "man intended it for evil but God intended it for good." Each situation is different but we can be sure that God will bring good from it if we allow Him to work within the broken world we have created. Did that help?

 

[razzelflabben]

Let me add this...suffering is a demonstration of how great our Love is. Just like Christ's suffering demonstrated the depths of His love, our suffering demonstrates the depth of our love .

 

[KaieraAi]

It does a little. I understand that there is beauty we can find in pain. I know that our pain isn't in vain but is it mandatory? Does God expect it from us? Does he set us up to feel unjust losses? Why?

Two summers ago I lost a friend in a car accident, and this August I lost another friend in a car accident. Why would God let my friends die, just to help me grow? That seems wrong. That doesn't seem like God's love and I don't believe He does it like that. But all the comforting scripture, all the promises make it sound like that was supposed to happen. It's not okay that it happened, you know? Even if I find comfort in God, even if he blesses me for my pain. Even if I know my loved ones are in Heaven, that wasn't supposed to happen. That was because there is flaw in the world and it hurts us all. I even get that. But how do I deal with that pain? How do I accept that without feeling like I was supposed to hurt like this? Am I? How is that right?

People die because this world has been flawed. But Jesus overcame sin. So even the evils of this world, their aftermath, the things we can't see, they shouldn't be able to hurt us. We can be sad about them, but we should be able to find comfort. I can't seem to find the comfort. The words don't really work. They make it sound like it's just but it isn't. God is a Just and True God, he wouldn't make us hurt so we can experience him. That'd be like breaking someone's arm and hoping they love you because you bandage it up afterwards, you know? I love God and I believe He is Good, but I cannot see his blessings in this time. The blessings make it sound like I should suffer. Like I can't have Him without siffering like this. That seems wrong. That makes it sound like you have to get hazed before you can know God. There is some painful initiation into God's love and it means losing people you love for no reason.

 

[razzelflabben]

It does a little. I understand that there is beauty we can find in pain. I know that our pain isn't in vain but is it mandatory? Does God expect it from us? Does he set us up to feel unjust losses? Why?

I had to make a quick run and so I was praying for you and about your question. Yes it is expected. We are commanded over and over again in scripture to share in the sufferings of Christ. If it wasn't expected it wouldn't be commanded.

In addition, look at the suffering of Job. What He learned is that God is God and that is sufficient of an answer. That doesn't seem to be a satisfactory answer when we are grieving but it is an answer that asks us to trust God with everything we are, have, and hope to have.

Two summers ago I lost a friend in a car accident, and this August I lost another friend in a car accident. Why would God let my friends die, just to help me grow? That seems wrong. That doesn't seem like God's love and I don't believe He does it like that. But all the comforting scripture, all the promises make it sound like that was supposed to happen. It's not okay that it happened, you know? Even if I find comfort in God, even if he blesses me for my pain. Even if I know my loved ones are in Heaven, that wasn't supposed to happen. That was because there is flaw in the world and it hurts us all. I even get that. But how do I deal with that pain? How do I accept that without feeling like I was supposed to hurt like this? Am I? How is that right?

Again, I am so sorry for your loss. Nothing at all, not a single answer given will make it "seem" alright. You are hurting and that shows the great Love you had for your friends. Don't loss that. But like the story I told you about the train, it wasn't for me that I suffered but for someone else and in time God willing He will reveal to you why, what He willed from this. I know that is little comfort, I dont' think there is a great comfort when we are suffering such great pain but we can learn to lean into God and trust Him which is all I had, all my husband had, all Job had.

People die because this world has been flawed. But Jesus overcame sin. So even the evils of this world, their aftermath, the things we can't see, they shouldn't be able to hurt us. We can be sad about them, but we should be able to find comfort. I can't seem to find the comfort. The words don't really work. They make it sound like it's just but it isn't. God is a Just and True God, he wouldn't make us hurt so we can experience him. That'd be like breaking someone's arm and hoping they love you because you bandage it up afterwards, you know? I love God and I believe He is Good, but I cannot see his blessings in this time. The blessings make it sound like I should suffer. Like I can't have Him without siffering like this. That seems wrong. That makes it sound like you have to get hazed before you can know God. There is some painful initiation into God's love and it means losing people you love for no reason.

The best I can offer here is why did Christ suffer for you? He was without sin and yet He still suffered greatly...why? Because sacrifice and offerings are part of being a priest, an intercessor. I truly wish I could take your pain away. I truly wish I could suffer in your place but I can't. Christ can and He weeps with you but even that doesn't heal a broken heart. You need to grieve and cry and then rest that God is God and in time He will reveal all that you need to know and understand.

If you want to talk in PM feel free, I do understand pain. I have been compared to Job on many occasions. But know that no words will heal, only God can heal the wounds and that is in His time and your willingness to simply trust.

May you find peace as you lean on Him and grace to endure and courage to accept that God is God and in that discover that that is enough.

 

[1watchman]

One needs to understand that "the god of this world" is Satan (as God tells us), and he always seeks to defeat us and draw us away from the Lord Jesus ---who he hates. Satan is an eternal creature (fallen angel) and he works on our old sinful nature from the malady of sin in the beginning (Genesis 2). God wants his people to learn to trust Him (not challenge Him), and learn to be in submission and faithful. Are we learning? Are we valuing God's Word, or just reasoning after our limited ideas? Life is about surrender of our will and reasoning and yielding to God; and He did not set about to give man paradise here.

The faithful saints who wait upon God will be eternally blessed. Satan will be cast away into eternal suffering when the time of testing is over, with all who will not bow to God in reverence. Look up always, be patient and trust God and His eternal Word!

 

[paul1149]

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven."
I'm just not sure I understand exactly how our God of unending mercy could possibly want us to suffer. Or how He would use terrible experiences as leverage to make us love Him.

I think you have to see this as one of the paradoxes of the Kingdom. God is the giver of all good things. He is pure light and there is no shadow in Him. Pain and suffering are not of Him, yet He uses them in this fallen world for His purposes. There is a huge difference between the two clauses of that last sentence.

As Lam 3 states, He does not afflict willingly. But because sin has entered the world, we often need disruption in order to see our spiritual need, otherwise we would happily live the remainder of our lives in the flesh, never caring about God. So whatever pain God allows, it is because of our flesh that it is here.

Because we are now Christ's representatives, we now take His place as the lightning rod of the world's hatred toward Him. So some of the suffering is on that account. This is why 1 Peter refers to this kind of suffering as being according to the will of God. There are other sources of suffering, and they are not according to God's will. We should be doing all we can to eliminate suffering, but until the Lord returns there will be an irreducible amount. Still, God's promise, in Rom 8.28 and here in Mt 5, triumphs over any affliction we may encounter.

 

[JIMINZ]

This week I am focusing on the first BeAttitude from the sermon on the mount, but I can't seem to understand this part just yet. "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven."

A devotional that is going along with this reading makes a point to say that we must mourn to be happy, we suffer to feel God's comfort. But why is that? If God never wanted us to feel pain or suffering, He never wanted us to see sin, how could that be a key point to knowing Him?

I'm just not sure I understand exactly how our God of unending mercy could possibly want us to suffer. Or how He would use terrible experiences as leverage to make us love Him. That doesn't seem right, and I don't think that's what this really means, I just can't figure out what it's really about.

.
You begin with a Scripture you have had trouble understanding,

Mat. 5:3
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
First of all, you need to understand WHO are the Poor Jesus is speaking of.

The verse below tells us, not only Who the Poor are, but why they are Blessed.

Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

The verses below as well as the on above are speaking of Salvation.

Luke 4:19
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
2 Co. 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

The verse you have been questioning in Matthew is NOT speaking about suffering, it is speaking about the alleviation of suffering by Jesus' Sacrifice for our sins, culminating in the Salvation of, those He calls Poor in Spirit. as expressed in Luke 4.

As a matter of fact, the whole of the Beatitudes is all on the same subject, SALVATION.

 

[W2L]

Suffering has value to the spiritual person. THe apostle paul knew that well. He learned to live by Gods grace in all his weaknesses and distresses. The apostle Peter compares our faith to Gold, perhaps this might mean that our faith is purified and matured in hardships. Its easy to praise God when all things are going well, but when things are tough will we still rejoice? This is a humbling experience, in my opinion.


Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

Romans 5 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have[a] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

2 Corinthians 12:9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

1 Peter 1:6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,

 

[faroukfarouk]

Jesus died on the cross. He took all the sin and suffering in the world, and defeated it.

We will experience suffering. Just like how we will feel rain, the sun will rise and set, ect. It is inescapable, because we do sin. Yes, I understand that. But we are not supposed to. It is not mandatory. If a person, by some miracle, was to live their life without suffering, would they be damned? That seems wrong. The world is full of sin but if we are supposed to suffer for it that just nullifies the price Jesus paid on the cross! It would mean we compare how close we can be to God by how painful our lives are. It's all wrong.

There is a difference between knowing we will be blessed when we do suffer, and thinking we can only be blessed by suffering. You see? The second idea makes no sense.

Hi; here are some good passages:

Isaiah 53.3-6; Philippians 2.5-11.

In these passages we see how the Lord Jesus willingly suffered at the Cross; for the believer, His willingness to endure the Cross is a wonderful source of hope.

Hebrews 7.25 shows that He now 'ever lives to make intercession' for all who by faith love Him and trust Him.

 

[KaieraAi]

Because we are now Christ's representatives, we now take His place as the lightning rod of the world's hatred toward Him. So some of the suffering is on that account. This is why 1 Peter refers to this kind of suffering as being according to the will of God.

I think this explains the issue I was having the best, so I wanted to say thank you for that. I know this forum is super old now, but in the time I've been away, I found peace through prayer and council from other Christians around me as well. I think I understand this much better now. The idea being that suffering exists in the world, and it may target us because we are the representatives of Christ. It isn't God putting us through hardship as some mean initiation, it's simply us defending the world from evil by taking it on ourselves joyfully, in the same way that Jesus willingly died for our sins so that we would eb saved. Thank you very much. <3

Still, God's promise, in Rom 8.28 and here in Mt 5, triumphs over any affliction we may encounter.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It isn't God putting us through hardship as some mean initiation, it's simply us defending the world from evil by taking it on ourselves joyfully, in the same way that Jesus willingly died for our sins so that we would eb saved.

No, not at all.
Jesus did not and does not defend the world from evil.

Neither do any Christians, neither do any follows of Jesus, defend the world from any evil.

Suffering is required, yes. It is mandatory. (according to all Scripture)

Yahuweh (God) uses suffering / pain/ discomfort
to train us,
according to all Scripture. (see Hebrews especially, perhaps).

It is to "wean us away" from thinking sinfully, from thinking our way,

to teach us to think His Way. And to live His Way.

 

[KaieraAi]

No, not at all.
Jesus did not and does not defend the world from evil.

Neither do any Christians, neither do any follows of Jesus, defend the world from any evil.

Suffering is required, yes. It is mandatory. (according to all Scripture)

Yahuweh (God) uses suffering / pain/ discomfort
to train us,
according to all Scripture. (see Hebrews especially, perhaps).

It is to "wean us away" from thinking sinfully, from thinking our way,

to teach us to think His Way. And to live His Way.

God has triumphed over evil and we serve out of rest. But there is still evil in the world, although by declaring Jesus Christ our savior, we have secured ourselves as sinless children of God. We are supposed to fight evil, we are supposed to defend each other. We are supposed to be waging a war on the powers of sin and suffering, but God has already won and in that we find strength.