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Matthew 1:21

One_In_Christ

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My understanding of the Doctrine of Election, is that we do not know whom the "chosen ones" are, specifically, that are being saved, and will be saved, and have been saved. We as individuals can only have (or not have) the assurance that our own salvation is sealed.

Just because Israel are the "chosen people" does not mean that every Jew who ever lived will have eternal life. Among other meanings, they were "chosen" to be an example to the rest of mankind by the historical events in their relationship to Yahweh.
 
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christian1488

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My understanding of the Doctrine of Election, is that we do not know whom the "chosen ones" are, specifically, that are being saved, and will be saved, and have been saved. We as individuals can only have (or not have) the assurance that our own salvation is sealed.

Just because Israel are the "chosen people" does not mean that every Jew who ever lived will have eternal life. Among other meanings, they were "chosen" to be an example to the rest of mankind by the historical events in their relationship to Yahweh.

Jews are not chosen,Israel is chosen.
Where does it state ''the Jews are the chosen people''?
Israel was not a state until the late 1940's and the Jews do not fulfill any of the marks of Israel.

i.e Israel to be great and mighty nation. Gen. 12:2; 18:18; Deut. 4:7,8. The Jews are only a state

Israel to become a company of nations. Gen. 17:4-6, 15,16; 35:11; 48:19; Eph. 2:12. The Jews have been kicked out of European countries and are only a state,not a company of nations

Why isn't anybody on this forum able to refute that;expect blindly stating the Jews are chosen while ignoring facts!

When Israel was taken into Assyrian captivity,unlike Judah who returned from Babylon,Israel never returned from their captivity to their home,so what happened,did they vanish off the face of the earth?
Read Jeremiah 24

Hosea 4:6:My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
 
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One_In_Christ

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Aces High: Read my statement on Predestination once more. I stated two reasons for God choosing a special people.

The first, God chose them to be His own people. The second, He loved them. These reasons were the basis for The Chosen People (Israel). I never implied that God does things for no reason. The operative word is "but" and ff.
 
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One_In_Christ

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Which is also rejected by many. Whatever God does has reason associated with it, whether it's evident to us or not. So I think it's rather sketchy to claim that God does things for no reason.

If the Doctrine of Predestination is rejected by many, do you mean, as I stated it? ----- or do you mean the whole doctrine is rejected by many?

Paul uses the terminology "predestined" in Romans 8:29,30.
Tell me now, if Christians are rejecting the doctrine of predestination. This is certainly news to me.

As a matter of fact, these are the ones whom I believe, in answer to christian1488, are "Israel" --- but I am still exploring the basis of this conviction, so I cannot elaborate on it more.
 
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christian1488

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Christian 1488: Perhaps you could enlighten me, then, as to all the various definitions of exactly who The Chosen People are, and who "Israel" is, and how "Israel" fits into the plan of salvation? I doubt if this will be a quick answer.....

Chosen people is Israel,Not the Jewish Israel.
The Jews are Edomites,it states it in their Jewish Encylopedia
The JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA, edition of 1925, Vol. 5, page 41, states "Edom is in modern Jewry."
They are from the Khazars,a Turkish Mongol group who converted to Judaism.
*Khazars adopt Judaism as their religion in A.D. 740.
*Jews more closely related to Hun, Uigur, and Magyrs than to the seed of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
*Interchangeable names --Khazar, Zhid (or Yid), and Jew
*Israeli's right to exist...not based on...the mythological covenant of Abraham with God; it is based on international law -- i.e., on the United Nations' decision of 1947. . .

*
The 1905 JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA, Vol. 21, page 249 reads: "If the Ten Tribes have disappeared, they must exist UNDER A DIFFERENT NAME." Again, they must be a people NOT called "Jews."

*
THE JEWISH CHRONICLE, May 2, 1879: "There has always been, however, an unwillingness to admit that a fate which has befallen so many nations has overtaken the Ten Tribes. Why should they have been less tenacious of life than their brethren of Judah? Nay, the Scriptures speak of a future restoration of Israel, which is clearly to include both Judah and Ephraim. THE TEN TRIBES ARE CERTAINLY IN EXISTENCE, ALL THAT HAS TO BE DONE IS TO DISCOVER WHICH PEOPLE REPRESENT THEM." (emphasis added .)

*
In MATTHEW 15:24 Jesus said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Was His entire mission a farce? Your teaching seems to make it so.
(if the Jews are Israel,since they consider themselves the messiah)
*
The Messiah [is] without metaphor the Jewish people" Kethuboth 111a.

*The BIBLICA ENCYCLOPEDIA, Vol. 2, Col. 1187, says that the Edomites are part of Jewry. The scientist and historian Dr. David Davidson wrote: "Indeed the Edomites later became completely absorbed in Jewry and under their aggressive intrusion the Jews became racially the medium of expression for the Edomite ideal for which Herod the Great had first given political formation. The Edomite intrusion into Judaism AT EVERY HISTORICAL POINT OF CONTACT is fully discussed in the volumes of the Camb ridge Ancient History. The History of the latest phase of the intrusion (absorption or inter-marriage) is in the summary of the Encyclopedia Biblica, Volume 2, Col 1187 (he then quotes that). Even the fact that the Edomites have at length BECOME JE WS was soon completely forgotten by the exponents of Jewish tradition." (It is this "tradition" which Christian ministers have been tricked into preaching instead of the truth.)

The Marks of Israel

Israel to have a Davidic King (a perpetual monarchy within Israel). 2nd Sam. 7:13,19; 1st Chron. 22:10; 2nd Chron. 13:5; Psa. 89:20, 37; Eze. 37:24; Jer. 33:17, 21, 26. - Since when does the Jewish state have a Davidic King? Queen Elizabeth 2 can trace her ancestry back to King David!

Israel to be the first among the nations. Gen. 27:29; 28:13; Jer. 31:7. - Israel is only kept alive by the USA,so how is Israel first among the nations?

Israel to have a new name. Isa. 62:2; 65:15; Hos. 2:17. - If Israel has a new name then why do the Jews always defend they are the chosen people of the Bible when the chosen are suppsoed to have a new name?

Israel to have a new religion (New Covenant.) Heb. 8:10-13; 9:17; Matt. 10:5-7; Luke 1:77; 2:32; 22:20; John 11:49-52; Gal. 3:13. - Since when does the new covenant apply to the Jews since they only use the torah and the talmud!Israel to lose all trace of her lineage. Isa. 42:16-19; Hos. 1:9, 10; 2:6; Rom. 11:25. - Since when have the Jews lost trace of their lineage?

Israel to be called the sons of God (i.e., accept Christianity). Hos. 1:10-11. - Since when did the Jews ever accept Christianity?

Israel to carry the Gospel to all the world. Gen. 28:14; Isa. 43:10-12 (witnesses), 21; Micah 5:7. - Since when do the Jews do that? From what I gathered only Christian Europeans do that!

Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."



The Israelites did not return to their home after been taken to Assyria,they migrated,I gather that is hard to believe!




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christian1488

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Heirs of the promise

[FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica] An Interview with
E. Raymond Capt


[/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica]Emry: As a minister, I know there is an abundance of prophesy concerning the destiny of Israel. But there is no Bible history of this portion of Israel referred to in 2 Kings 17:6- In the ninth year of Hoshea, the king of Assyria took Samaria and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah, and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes. So Bible history of this major part of Israel ends here. And yet the prophets and the New Testament promise an increase in numbers, great blessings, and an eventual restoration.
With the passing of 2,500 years since this Assyrian captivity, one might think that all' hope of tracing these Israelites is lost. Ray, can archeology answer this question?
Capt: Yes, Pastor Emry, it has. During the last hundred years a number of archeological teams have been working in the Middle East. They have unearthed and published the original contemporary accounts of the Assyrians, who took the Israelites captive. It is from these records that vital clues have come to light. In fact, these records are found in the form of cuneiform tablets. These tablets were found at Nineveh in 1900 and published in 1930. However, their relevance to Israel was overlooked then, because they were found in complete disorder and amongst about 1,400 other texts.



[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica]The tablets were Assyrian frontier post reports, dated about 707 B.C.. They describe the activities of the people called "Gamira," who lived in the land of "Gamir." The descriptions of Gamir described the area in which the Israelites had been placed just a few years earlier.
One tablet stated that when the king of Urartu came into the land of Gamir, his army was routed, as the Gamira counter-attacked, entered the land of Urartu, and killed their commanders.
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
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In the ninth year of Hoshea, the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes. (2 Kings 17:6)​
[FONT=arial, helvetica]The first archaeological evidence to establish a chronological link in the contacts between Assyria and Israel are found on inscriptions on the side of a limestone stele found at Nimrud, known as the "Black Obelisk." The stone was inscribed with the records of Shalmaneser the third and an illustration of the Israelite king Jehu bringing tribute to the Assyrian king. An inscription above the illustration says: [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica]Omri in Hebrew begins with the consonant, "Agin," formerly called "Gayin" which was pronounced with a guttural "H," that is "Gh" or "Kh." The Israelites would have naturally pronounced Omri as "Ghomri" which became "Khumri" in Assyrian. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]As this inscription was executed nearly a century before the captivity of Israel, we know now the reason secular historians found no mention of the exiled Israelites in ancient records. It was simply because the Assyrians who took the Israelites captive did not call them by that name. Historians are now aware of the fact that the Gamira were the same people, who, about 30 years later, during the reign of Esarhaddon, king of Assyria, again were called Gimira. (Notice the slight changes in spelling). [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]We find in another and later Assyrian tablet that in the second year of the reign of this same king, which would be about 679 B.C., the Gimira, under a leader named "Teuspa," sought freedom by moving north; but the Assyrain army pursued and defeated them in the upper Euphrates district. Nevertheless, they reported a large number of the lsraelites escaped to the shores of the Black Sea. The Greeks also recorded the same activity including an invasion of Sardis, the capital of Lydia, in 645 B.C. In their records they refer to the Gamira as "Kimmerioi," which we translate into English as "Cimmerian." [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]About 600 B.C. the Lydians drove the Gamira, or Cimmerians, out of Asia Minor, where they settled in the Carpathian regions west of the Black Sea. We find them called in the second book of Esdras, the people of Ar-Sareth (2 Esdras 13:40-44).
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[FONT=arial, helvetica]This treaty allowed the Israelites to establish colonies in Sacasene in the north and Bactria in the east. With absolutely no help from the Israelites, Assyria fell in 612 B.C. Soon the Israelites themselves came under attack by the Medes. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]Now those that had settled in Sacasene moved north through the Dariel Pass into the steppe regions of south Russia. There they became known by the Greek name, "Scythians." [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]The Israelites that had settled in Bactria were forced north and east, and in the records of the Persians they were called Massagetae and Sakka. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]Archeology has solved two of the greatest archeological problems: First, what happened to the hundreds of thousands of Israelites who disappeared south of the Caucasus; and second, what was the origin of the Cimmerians and the mysterious nomadic tribes, known as Scythians, who suddenly appeared north of the Caucasus - both at the same time in history. They were one and the same people. They were Israelites. Now may I point out what the Bible has to say concerning these same people: [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica]"For lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth" (Amos 9:9).[/FONT]​
[FONT=arial, helvetica][FONT=arial, helvetica]Our history books pick up the story at this point, recording the westward migrations of the Scythians, as they came into collision with the Cimmerians, who had earlier settled west of the Black Sea. Their kinship lost over the centuries, the ensuing battles forced the Cimmerians west and north to become the Celts, Gauls, and Cimbri. By the end of the fourth century B.C., the Scythians had established themselves as the great and prosperous kingdom of Scythia. Later, the Sarmatians, these were a mixed, non- Israelitish people of Iranian origin. They in turn drove the Scythians northwest to the shores of the Baltic Sea. At this time in history, we find the Romans introduced the name "Germans" in place of the name Scythians, in order not to confuse the Scythians with the Sarmatians, who now occupied Scythia. Germanus, being the Latin name for "genuine," indicates the Germans were the genuine Scythians.
During this time the Celts were expanding in all directions from central Europe. Some of the Celts invaded Italy and sacked Rome in 390 B.C. Another group moved back into Asia Minor, in 280 B.C., and the Greeks called them "Galatians," as they did another group of Celts that had settled in Gaul, or modern France. This also indicates that Paul's letters to the Galatians were written to his kinsmen Israelites, or at least descendants of the earlier Galatians.
Some of the Celts moved into Spain and became known as Iberes, the Gaelic name for "Hebrews." Others poured into Britain to form the bedrock of the British race. Later, the Iberes moved into Ireland as Scots, and later into Northern Britain to establish the nation of Scotland.
Your history books also record the Germanic tribes breaking up into many divisions - the Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Danes, and Vikings, to name just a few. Other Germanic tribes later poured into the lands vacated by the Celts and established the Gothic nations of the Vandals, Lombards, Franks, Burgundians, and others.
The so-called "lost tribes of Israel" really, were never lost. They only lost their identity as they migrated westward over the centuries from the land of their captivity.
(End of interview with Capt) [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
 
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One_In_Christ

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I should think this theory is not very well known, am I right? Or do archaeologists agree that N.T. references to "the lost sheep" are in fact, the diaspora you described? I appreciate very much this disclosure, and wonder if there is a citation where this is found? Does this account for all continents --- i.e., any that are not accounted for? Again, this is an amazing explanation.

I'm trying to remeber the verse of Scripture where Jesus said, "And I have other flocks......" that always mystified me. My thanks to you!
 
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christian1488

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I should think this theory is not very well known, am I right? Or do archaeologists agree that N.T. references to "the lost sheep" are in fact, the diaspora you described? I appreciate very much this disclosure, and wonder if there is a citation where this is found? Does this account for all continents --- i.e., any that are not accounted for? Again, this is an amazing explanation.

I'm trying to remeber the verse of Scripture where Jesus said, "And I have other flocks......" that always mystified me. My thanks to you!

John 10:16:And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


John 10:27:My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

This seems to be the only explanation,I mean,what happened to the Assyrian Captives that did not return to their home,did they simply disappear off the face of the earth? -- No,they simply lost their identity i.e name and migrated..

The Jewish Encyclopedia stated Edom is in Modern Jewry i.e Modern Jews are from Esau, and the Jews cannot be from Jacob/Israel AND Esau/Edom
What is the problem is what we are been taught due to the wrong connection i.e modern Israel with old Israel.

John 8:33:They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

I think I have stated it quite a few times,but no Jew could say they ''were never in bondage to any man''

Here are a few verses on Israel:

Amos 9:9:For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

Amos 3:2:You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

Jeremiah 31:1:At the same time, saith the LORD, will I be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people.

Deuteronomy 7:6:For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Numbers 6:27:And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel, and I will bless them.

Matthew 15:24:But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Why would Jesus state in Matthew 13:11:He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

I think you have to keep in mind,Jesus WAS sent to Israel.....

Luke 19:9-10:9And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.


Do you not believe that only Israelites can become “lost” and “lost sheep”


I think this should be kept in mind,for it is very important,

The 1905 JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA, Vol. 21, page 249 reads: "If the Ten Tribes have disappeared, they must exist UNDER A DIFFERENT NAME." Again, they must be a people NOT called "Jews."

"If the Ten Tribes have disappeared, they must exist UNDER A DIFFERENT NAME."

I think it's time to do some Biblical study,that IS NOT mainstream,people should read the Bible themselves and not Just rely on people to tell them what it says,using extra-Biblical resources also,i.e The Apocrypha,Christian books as well as Jewish books!

I think it would be false and wrong to know this knowledge but choose to ignore it because it is not popular!
 
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One_In_Christ

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John 10:16:And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
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"If the Ten Tribes have disappeared, they must exist UNDER A DIFFERENT NAME."

I think it's time to do some Biblical study,that IS NOT mainstream,people should read the Bible themselves and not Just rely on people to tell them what it says,using extra-Biblical resources also,i.e The Apocrypha,Christian books as well as Jewish books!

I think it would be false and wrong to know this knowledge but choose to ignore it because it is not popular!

You would be misrepresenting me to think that I don't agree with you, wholeheartedly, Christian. I'm fairly sure that today's seminaries are glossing over these facts, if not omitting them completely. Maybe I missed this in Bible class, or I was absent that day. I don't doubt any of your statements !!

I'm just amazed I had not heard this explanation ---- EVER !
It is, afterall, quite important for purposes of explanation.
 
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christian1488

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1 Chronicles 5:26:And the God of Israel stirred up the spirit of Pul king of Assyria, and the spirit of Tilgathpilneser king of Assyria, and he carried them away, even the Reubenites, and the Gadites, and the half tribe of Manasseh, and brought them unto Halah, and Habor, and Hara, and to the river Gozan, unto this day.

2 Kings 15:29:In the days of Pekah king of Israel came Tiglathpileser king of Assyria, and took Ijon, and Abelbethmaachah, and Janoah, and Kedesh, and Hazor, and Gilead, and Galilee, all the land of Naphtali, and carried them captive to Assyria.

2 Kings 17:3-6:3Against him came up Shalmaneser king of Assyria; and Hoshea became his servant, and gave him presents. 4And the king of Assyria found conspiracy in Hoshea: for he had sent messengers to So king of Egypt, and brought no present to the king of Assyria, as he had done year by year: therefore the king of Assyria shut him up, and bound him in prison.
5Then the king of Assyria came up throughout all the land, and went up to Samaria, and besieged it three years.
6In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.

2 Kings 18:13:Now in the fourteenth year of king Hezekiah did Sennacherib king of Assyria come up against all the fenced cities of Judah, and took them.

Isaiah 36:1:Now it came to pass in the fourteenth year of king Hezekiah, that Sennacherib king of Assyria came up against all the defenced cities of Judah, and took them.

Historic Proof - Historic proof of Israel's migrations

Fingerprints - Israel's fingerprints

http://www.israelect.com/reference/SheldonEmry/studies/Heirs of the Promise.pdf - Heirs of the promise

http://www.israelect.com/reference/SheldonEmry/studies/Who Are Israelites.pdf - Who are the Israelites?

http://www.israelect.com/reference/SheldonEmry/studies/Paul and Joseph of Arimathea.pdf - Paul and Joseph of Arimathea (Learn how the Gospel got to the British Isles; How the first church of Rome was in Briton; How the "lost" tribes of Israel spread over Europe; How "ministers" hide the truth from you.)

http://www.israelect.com/reference/SheldonEmry/studies/Jesus Christ the Galilean.pdf - Jesus Christ the Galilean

http://www.israelect.com/reference/... Chosen Servant Race to 'Save the World'~.pdf - Is Israel the chosen race to save the world?
 
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