MATT 24 LUKE 17 "ONE TAKEN AND ONE LEFT" DISCUSSION

LittleLambofJesus · Dec 14, 2018

I just added a poll to the thread and it will allow voters to change their vote if they want to.

What does Jesus mean by "one taken, one left". Are the ones left "the bodies" and the other taken "captives"?

I have a post on these verses on my harmonizing of the Jerusalem/Temple discourse

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
POST #53

Matthew 24
1 And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

28 for wherever the carcass/body may be, there shall the eagles<105> be gathered together.
40 Then two will be in the field: one is taken, and one is left.
41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one is taken, and one is left.
42 Therefore keep watch, for you do not know on what day your Lord comes.

Luke 17
34 ‘I say to you, In that night,
there shall be two men on one couch, the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left;
35 two women shall be grinding at the same place together, the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left;
36 two men shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other left.’
37 And they answering say to him, ‘Where, sir?’ and he said to them,
‘Where the body<4983> [is], there will the eagles<105> be gathered together.’

Luke 21:
5 and of some saying concerning the Temple,

21 “Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains,

The commentary site below is the 1st that came up doing a google search of that event:

the one taken the other left gospels - Google Search

https://www.jasonstaples.com/bible/...will-be-left-misinterpreted-bible-passages-8/

Popular Misinterpretation
In the fanciful world of Pre-Trib dispensationalist theology, this verse as been interpreted as a reference to the “Rapture of the Church” in which Jesus comes from heaven to “catch up” his church in the air and take them back to heaven with him, leaving the unbelievers behind to suffer the wrath of God, poured out in all its gory goodness for a short but hellish period of time known as the “Great Tribulation” (this framework rests on a host of other misinterpreted passages—most notably Daniel 9:24–27—but we’ll just stick to this one for the time being). According to this interpretation, the fulfillment of Jesus’ words will look something like this:.....................

This translation is a bit clearer: it’s better to be in the latter group than the former, better to be “let go” or “released” than “taken” or “seized.” This runs completely counter to the picture in modern imagination, which relies upon the idea that the righteous will be taken and the wicked “left behind” to suffer in the Tribulation. What’s remarkable to me is how ingrained this interpretation has gotten within the Evangelical world, despite it being a relatively new theological perspective with less than 200 years of history and despite the fact that it reads this “proof text” passage to mean the opposite of what it means in context.

Conclusion
Once again, we have found that a passage dealing with eschatology is interpreted to mean the opposite of what it actually says. In this case, we have a passage talking about the destruction of the wicked at the Parousia (Second Coming) that has been creatively transformed into a story about people disappearing and leaving the wicked on earth. Why is this important? Well, for one, a proper reading of these passages is a safeguard against predictions by the likes of Harold Camping and Hal Lindsay, since these predictions consistently rest on misinterpretations of this and other passages. If the foundation is bad, the building is worse. It also should be understood that these passages are a promise of divine protection, not a promise that God will remove his people from times of trouble—something that quite simply has never been the case. Instead, Jesus promises that God will look after his people through tribulation rather than removing them from troubled times. This is a critical point, as it applies to every generation and not only to that one generation lucky enough to miss out on all the tough stuff (such a theology only works in the prosperous West to begin with). So next time someone asks you if you’ll be “left behind,” answer, “I certainly hope so!”

.

Ken Rank · Dec 14, 2018

When Noach went into the boat, when all was said and done, who was taken and who was left? If we're honest with it, Noach and his family were left, the rest of the world was taken. Same with Lot... when the smoke cleared, he was left, Sodom and it's inhabitants were gone. So will it be in the day of the son of man. The ones "taken" are not the group we want to be part of. An additional witness to that comes in the parable of the wheat and tares. Who is taken first? The tares... and they are burned. The wheat is left behind, and then gathered unto the master of the field (messiah).

ewq1938 · Dec 14, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said:
This translation is a bit clearer: it’s better to be in the latter group than the former, better to be “let go” or “released” than “taken” or “seized.”

Those definitions are severely lacking.

taken
3880

3880 paralambano {par-al-am-ban'-o}

from 3844 and 2983; TDNT - 4:11,495; v

AV - take 30, receive 15, take unto 2, take up 2, take away 1; 50

1) to take to, to take with one's self, to join to one's self
1a) an associate, a companion
1b) metaph.
1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be
1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience
2) to receive something transmitted
2a) an office to be discharged
2b) to receive with the mind
2b1) by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the
tradition proceeds
2b2) by the narrating to others, by instruction of teachers
(used of disciples)

"to take with one's self"
"to join to one's self"
"an associate"
"a companion"
"not to reject"

left
863

863 aphiemi {af-ee'-ay-mee}

from 575 and hiemi (to send, an intens. form of eimi, to go);
TDNT - 1:509,88; v

AV - leave 52, forgive 47, suffer 14, let 8, forsake 6, let alone 6,
misc 13; 146

1) to send away
1a) to bid going away or depart
1a1) of a husband divorcing his wife
1b) to send forth, yield up, to expire
1c) to let go, let alone, let be
1c1) to disregard
1c2) to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic)
1c21) of teachers, writers and speakers
1c3) to omit, neglect
1d) to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit
1e) to give up, keep no longer
2) to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person
3) to leave, go way from one
3a) in order to go to another place
3b) to depart from any one
3c) to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all
mutual claims are abandoned
3d) to desert wrongfully
3e) to go away leaving something behind
3f) to leave one by not taking him as a companion
3g) to leave on dying, leave behind one
3h) to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining
3i) abandon, leave destitute

"to send away"
"of a husband divorcing his wife"
"to expire"
"to disregard"
"neglect"
"keep no longer"
"to leave on dying"
"leave behind one"
"abandon, leave destitute"

That's the complete opposite as being "taken" and is very negative. Do you
want to be rejected at the return of Christ or do you want to be accepted?
Christ takes the first one from the field and the rest is "left" by him, and
are "kept no longer".

Who was TAKEN into the Ark?
Who was LEFT outside the Ark?
Who was TAKEN to a safe place to live?
Who was LEFT to die in an unsafe place?

Who was TAKEN out of Sodom?
Who was LEFT in Sodom?
Who was TAKEN to a safe place to live?
Who was LEFT to die in an unsafe place?

Why does TAKEN/paralambano¯ mean to accept as a companion and does NOT mean to reject and leave to die?
Why does LEFT/aphie¯mi means to reject and leave someone to die and does NOT mean to accept as a companion?

Why does TAKEN/paralambano¯ mean you survive?
Why does LEFT/aphie¯mi mean you do not survive?

LittleLambofJesus · Dec 14, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
This translation is a bit clearer: it’s better to be in the latter group than the former, better to be “let go” or “released” than “taken” or “seized.”

ewq1938 said:
Your definitions are severely lacking.

taken
3880

3880 paralambano {par-al-am-ban'-o}

from 3844 and 2983; TDNT - 4:11,495; v

AV - take 30, receive 15, take unto 2, take up 2, take away 1; 50

1) to take to, to take with one's self, to join to one's self
1a) an associate, a companion
1b) metaph.
1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be
1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience
2) to receive something transmitted
2a) an office to be discharged
2b) to receive with the mind
2b1) by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the
tradition proceeds
2b2) by the narrating to others, by instruction of teachers
(used of disciples)

"to take with one's self"
"to join to one's self"
"an associate"
"a companion"
"not to reject"

left
863

863 aphiemi {af-ee'-ay-mee}

from 575 and hiemi (to send, an intens. form of eimi, to go);
TDNT - 1:509,88; v

AV - leave 52, forgive 47, suffer 14, let 8, forsake 6, let alone 6,
misc 13; 146

1) to send away
1a) to bid going away or depart
1a1) of a husband divorcing his wife
1b) to send forth, yield up, to expire
1c) to let go, let alone, let be
1c1) to disregard
1c2) to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic)
1c21) of teachers, writers and speakers
1c3) to omit, neglect
1d) to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit
1e) to give up, keep no longer
2) to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person
3) to leave, go way from one
3a) in order to go to another place
3b) to depart from any one
3c) to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all
mutual claims are abandoned
3d) to desert wrongfully
3e) to go away leaving something behind
3f) to leave one by not taking him as a companion
3g) to leave on dying, leave behind one
3h) to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining
3i) abandon, leave destitute

"to send away"
"of a husband divorcing his wife"
"to expire"
"to disregard"
"neglect"
"keep no longer"
"to leave on dying"
"leave behind one"
"abandon, leave destitute"

That's the complete opposite as being "taken" and is very negative. Do you
want to be rejected at the return of Christ or do you want to be accepted?
Christ takes the first one from the field and the rest is "left" by him, and
are "kept no longer".

Who was TAKEN into the Ark?
Who was LEFT outside the Ark?
Who was TAKEN to a safe place to live?
Who was LEFT to die in an unsafe place?

Who was TAKEN out of Sodom?
Who was LEFT in Sodom?
Who was TAKEN to a safe place to live?
Who was LEFT to die in an unsafe place?

Why does TAKEN/paralambano¯ mean to accept as a companion and does NOT mean to reject and leave to die?
Why does LEFT/aphie¯mi means to reject and leave someone to die and does NOT mean to accept as a companion?

Why does TAKEN/paralambano¯ mean you survive?
Why does LEFT/aphie¯mi mean you do not survive?

Thank you for the Greek lesson and your post.
You posted a comment from the site, not from me.......

.

ewq1938 · Dec 14, 2018

Ken Rank said:
When Noach went into the boat, when all was said and done, who was taken and who was left? If we're honest with it, Noach and his family were left, the rest of the world was taken. Same with Lot... when the smoke cleared, he was left, Sodom and it's inhabitants were gone.

Not true.

Those TAKEN into the Ark were protected. The rest were LEFT or rejected and died.
Lot was TAKEN out of Sodom to safety. The rest LEFT in Sodom died.

Not only is this chronologically correct but it matches the meanings of the Greek words. You have it chronologically backwards showing left first and taken last which is not the order given by Christ.

The ones "taken" are not the group we want to be part of.

It is if you want Christ to be the one taking you. Who wants to be left/rejected by Christ?

An additional witness to that comes in the parable of the wheat and tares. Who is taken first? The tares... and they are burned. The wheat is left behind, and then gathered unto the master of the field (messiah).

That's out of context. The one taken and left is the second coming. The wheat and tares is what happens on the GWTJ.

Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The day of the second coming. People will be saved first, then the others are destroyed. That is taken and left in chronological order.

Even the parable of the ten virgins teaches the same chronological order of the first group taken to safety with Christ, the rest rejected and left to their deserved fate.

Long Beard · Dec 14, 2018

Notice Jesus' reply to where are they taken in the Luke parallel passage... 'the body' if you examine the Strong's number you cited G4983 gives you good insight as it is a corpse... so it is a dead body... the 'eagle' would be better translated to a carrion type bird like a vulture...

So as you discovered it would appear that 'being taken' is not what we should desire.

ewq1938 · Dec 14, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said:
Thank you for the Greek lesson and your post.
You posted a comment from the site, not from me.......

.

Ah, well the site doesn't understand the issue of who the one taken and left actually are. To be LEFT means to be rejected and divorced and abandoned similar to how the foolish virgins were rejected and were not taken by the bridegroom.

ewq1938 · Dec 14, 2018

Long Beard said:
Notice Jesus' reply to where are they taken in the Luke parallel passage... 'the body' if you examine the Strong's number you cited G4983 gives you good insight as it is a corpse... so it is a dead body... the 'eagle' would be better translated to a carrion type bird like a vulture...

So as you discovered it would appear that 'being taken' is not what we should desire.

The taken ones are taken to witness Jesus defeat the army of the beast and see the birds eat the dead. The army of the beast traveled there willingly. They weren't "taken" there. Besides, it is the word left that means to be left to die not the word for taken. Taken in the Greek never means to be rejected or left to die.

taken
3880

3880 paralambano {par-al-am-ban'-o}

from 3844 and 2983; TDNT - 4:11,495; v

AV - take 30, receive 15, take unto 2, take up 2, take away 1; 50

1) to take to, to take with one's self, to join to one's self
1a) an associate, a companion
1b) metaph.
1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be
1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience
2) to receive something transmitted
2a) an office to be discharged
2b) to receive with the mind
2b1) by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the
tradition proceeds
2b2) by the narrating to others, by instruction of teachers
(used of disciples)

"to take with one's self"
"to join to one's self"
"an associate"
"a companion"
"not to reject"

left
863

863 aphiemi {af-ee'-ay-mee}

from 575 and hiemi (to send, an intens. form of eimi, to go);
TDNT - 1:509,88; v

AV - leave 52, forgive 47, suffer 14, let 8, forsake 6, let alone 6,
misc 13; 146

1) to send away
1a) to bid going away or depart
1a1) of a husband divorcing his wife
1b) to send forth, yield up, to expire
1c) to let go, let alone, let be
1c1) to disregard
1c2) to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic)
1c21) of teachers, writers and speakers
1c3) to omit, neglect
1d) to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit
1e) to give up, keep no longer
2) to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person
3) to leave, go way from one
3a) in order to go to another place
3b) to depart from any one
3c) to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all
mutual claims are abandoned
3d) to desert wrongfully
3e) to go away leaving something behind
3f) to leave one by not taking him as a companion
3g) to leave on dying, leave behind one
3h) to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining
3i) abandon, leave destitute

"to send away"
"of a husband divorcing his wife"
"to expire"
"to disregard"
"neglect"
"keep no longer"
"to leave on dying"
"leave behind one"
"abandon, leave destitute"

LittleLambofJesus · Dec 14, 2018

ewq1938 said:
Not true...........

That's out of context. The one taken and left is the second coming. The wheat and tares is what happens on the GWTJ.
.

The Harvest occurs in Revelation 14 at the time of the "rapture" of the 2 witnesses....

Matthew 13
30 ‘Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”
39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is a full end of the age, and the reapers are messengers. [Revelation 14:15]

Luke 21:27
‘And then they shall see the Son of Man, coming in a cloud, with power and much glory;

Revelation 14:14
And I looked and behold! a white cloud
and upon the cloud like-as a Son of Man sitting having a golden crown upon His head and in His hand, a sharp sickle

The rapture of the wheat/sheep?

Revelation 11:12
And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!
And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud and their enemies behold them.

Revelation 14
15 And another Messenger came out of the Sanctuary, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Thy sickle! and reap!
for the time has come for Thee to reap, for the harvest of the land is ripe.”
16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.

Joel 3:13
Send ye forth a sickle, For ripened hath harvest,
Come in, come down, for filled hath been the press, Overflowed hath wine-presses, For great is their wickedness.

.

ewq1938 · Dec 14, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said:
The Harvest occurs in Revelation 14 at the time of the "rapture" of the 2 witnesses....

No, the tares are burned at the end of Rev 20 in the LOF. So, the wicked are cast into the LOF first, then the righteous enter the NHNE and New Jerusalem. But at the second coming the righteous are taken/gathered/raptured by Christ, and the unsaved are left for punishment (the wrath of God).

Long Beard · Dec 14, 2018

Isaiah 57:13 When thou criest, let thy companies deliver thee; but the wind shall carry them all away; vanity shall take them: but he that putteth his trust in me shall possess the land, and shall inherit my holy mountain;

Isaiah 40:24 Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Ezekiel 30:4 And the sword shall come upon Egypt, and great pain shall be in Ethiopia, when the slain shall fall in Egypt, and they shall take away her multitude, and her foundations shall be broken down.

Hosea 1:6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.

Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

... and many more as "take away" is a Hebrew idiom for destroying something or someone...

LittleLambofJesus · Dec 14, 2018

ewq1938 said:
No, the tares are burned at the end of Rev 20 in the LOF. So, the wicked are cast into the LOF first, then the righteous enter the NHNE and New Jerusalem. But at the second coming the righteous are taken/gathered/raptured by Christ, and the unsaved are left for punishment (the wrath of God).

I have no earthly idea where you get that from. I will let you figure out the 1000yr period and what happens after it.

The Harvest happens at the parousia/2nd coming BEFORE the 1000yr period and so I dwell on the period before the 1000yr period.........

Harvest at "full end of the age" [We need to make a separate thread on this]

Matthew 13:
39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is a full end<4930> of the age, and the reapers are Messengers. [Revelation 14:15]

The Parousia and the full end of the age 70ad:

Matthew 24:3 Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling! to us, when? shall these be, and what? the sign
of the Thy parousia and together-finish<4931> of the age.

Same parousia as Matthew:

Luke 21:
27 ‘And then they shall see the Son of Man, coming in a cloud, with power and much glory;

The parousia and harvest:

Revelation 14:
14 And I looked and behold! a white cloud
and upon the cloud like-as a Son of Man sitting having a golden crown upon His head and in His hand, a sharp sickle

The rapture of the wheat/sheep:

Revelation 11:12
And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!
And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud and their enemies behold them.

The wicked thrown into the winepress of the wrath of God

Revelation 14
15 And another Messenger came out of the Sanctuary, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Thy sickle! and reap!
for the time has come for Thee to reap, for the harvest of the land is ripe.”
16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.
19 and the messenger did put forth his sickle to the earth, and did gather the vine of the earth, and did cast it to the great wine-press of the wrath of God;
20 and trodden was the wine-press outside of the City, and blood did come forth out of the wine-press -- unto the bridles of the horses, a thousand, six hundred furlongs.

The Parousia on a white horse instead of cloud:

Rev 19:15
Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[fn] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron.
He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

I forgot I had a thread on this back in 2008 LOL

The Harvest of Matt 13/Reve 14.

LittleLambofJesus · Dec 14, 2018

Long Beard said:
Isaiah 57:13 When thou criest, let thy companies deliver thee; but the wind shall carry them all away; vanity shall take them: but he that putteth his trust in me shall possess the land, and shall inherit my holy mountain;

Isaiah 40:24 Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Ezekiel 30:4 And the sword shall come upon Egypt, and great pain shall be in Ethiopia, when the slain shall fall in Egypt, and they shall take away her multitude, and her foundations shall be broken down.

Hosea 1:6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.

Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

... and many more as "take away" is a Hebrew idiom for destroying something or someone...

Very interesting and thanks for bringing up some Hebrew scriptures on that
That gives me a lot more for me to digest..........

LLoJ turns in for the night. G'nite
Blessings
.

ewq1938 · Dec 14, 2018

Long Beard said:
Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

That's not even the same word nor is it the right timeframe. I don't even need to comment on the out of context different language Hebrew verses.

Bobber · Dec 15, 2018

Jesus revealed two things about his coming....the manner....

For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.as lightning flashes from the east unto the west so shall Matt 24:27

He also revealed the location...the place the righteous would be gathered to and that'd be to Jerusalem at the rapture and then they'd ascend to heaven before the wrath of God.

For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Matt 24:27

I believe in what's been called Pre-Wrath which has the rapture taking place at the end of Rev 6 or Rev 7:

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Rev 7:9-14

The prosecution against Israel can be found in Rev 6, where one can read the same elements of Matt 24

BABerean2 · Dec 15, 2018

ewq1938 said:
Not true.

What does the text say?

Who are "them" who were "took" in verse 39 below?

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

.

LittleLambofJesus · Dec 15, 2018

Long Beard said:
"take away" is a Hebrew idiom for destroying something or someone...

Isaiah 57:13 When thou criest, let thy companies deliver thee; but the wind shall carry them all away; vanity shall take them: but he that putteth his trust in me shall possess the land, and shall inherit my holy mountain;
Isaiah 40:24 Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.
Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Ezekiel 30:4 And the sword shall come upon Egypt, and great pain shall be in Ethiopia, when the slain shall fall in Egypt, and they shall take away her multitude, and her foundations shall be broken down.
Hosea 1:6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

"take away" is a Hebrew idiom for destroying something or someone...

Again, thanks very a nice informative post.

I found this to be of interest.

Luke's 70ad Jerusalem discourse actually mentions the Greek word for "destroy/ruin" concerning that event:

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

G622 (NKJV)

622. apollumi from 575 and the base of 3639;
to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively:--destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
3639. olethros ol'-eth-ros from a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruin, i.e. death, punishment:--destruction.
G622 ἀπόλλυμι (apollymi), occurs 100 times in 86 verses

Luke 17:
26 “Just as it was in the days of Noah,† so it will be in the days of the Son of Man:
27 People went on eating, drinking, marrying and giving in marriage† until the day Noah boarded the ark,†
and the flood came and destroyed<622 apollumi> them all.

A form of #622 is used for the "Destroyer" in Revelation 9:11. Pretty fascinating:

Revelaton 9:11
and they are having of them a king the Messenger of the Abyss, name to him to Hebrew abaddwn <3>, and in the Greecian name is having Destroyer<623 apolluwn>

The LXX uses a form of G622 concerning the Passover Destroyer in Exodus:

Exodus 12:23
And Yahweh passes to strike the Egyptians and He sees the blood on the lintel and on two of the jambs and Yahweh passes-over the portal
and not He shall allow the ruiner/destroyer/<1842 oleqreuonta> to come to houses of ye to strike.

Coincidentally, Titus started the siege of 70ad Jerusalem on the feast of the Passover!

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

At this critical and alarming conjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman army was approaching the City.
The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:-- all was wild disorder and perplexity nothing to be expected from the Romans but signal and exemplary vengeance......

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ;

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
POST #53 DAYS OF NOAH

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Ken Rank · Dec 15, 2018

ewq1938 said:
Not true.

Those TAKEN into the Ark were protected. The rest were LEFT or rejected and died.
Lot was TAKEN out of Sodom to safety. The rest LEFT in Sodom died.

Not only is this chronologically correct but it matches the meanings of the Greek words. You have it chronologically backwards showing left first and taken last which is not the order given by Christ.

It is if you want Christ to be the one taking you. Who wants to be left/rejected by Christ?

That's out of context. The one taken and left is the second coming. The wheat and tares is what happens on the GWTJ.

Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The day of the second coming. People will be saved first, then the others are destroyed. That is taken and left in chronological order.

Even the parable of the ten virgins teaches the same chronological order of the first group taken to safety with Christ, the rest rejected and left to their deserved fate.

You have a belief that requires this position. I don't, it is what it us. When the water subsided Noah was left.

LittleLambofJesus · Dec 15, 2018

Ken Rank said: ↑
When Noach went into the boat, when all was said and done, who was taken and who was left? If we're honest with it, Noach and his family were left, the rest of the world was taken. Same with Lot... when the smoke cleared, he was left, Sodom and it's inhabitants were gone.

ewq1938 said:
Not true.

Those TAKEN into the Ark were protected. The rest were LEFT or rejected and died.
Lot was TAKEN out of Sodom to safety. The rest LEFT in Sodom died.

Not only is this chronologically correct but it matches the meanings of the Greek words. You have it chronologically backwards showing left first and taken last which is not the order given by Christ.
It is if you want Christ to be the one taking you. Who wants to be left/rejected by Christ?
That's out of context. The one taken and left is the second coming. The wheat and tares is what happens on the GWTJ.
Luke 17:
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed<622> them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed

The day of the second coming. People will be saved first, then the others are destroyed. That is taken and left in chronological order.
Even the parable of the ten virgins teaches the same chronological order of the first group taken to safety with Christ, the rest rejected and left to their deserved fate..

Lot is only mentioned in 3 verses of the entire NT, Luke 17 and 2 Peter 2.

Luke 17
28 “Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;
29 “but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed<622 apollumi> all.

Sodom is mentioned in Revelation 11:8 as being compared to 1st century Jerusalem...

Mat 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
Luk 13:34 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
Romans 9:29
And as Isaiah said before:
“Unless the LORD of Sabaoth[fn] had left us a seed,
We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”[fn]

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great City which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our[fn] Lord was crucified.

Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?
Post #62 Fire and Brimstone

"Fire brimstone" occur together in 11 verses

Genesis 19:24 [Luke 17:29]
Then Yahweh rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah,
from Yahweh from the heavens.

7 verses in NT. Only 1 verse outside of Revelation

Luke 17:29 [Genesis 19:24]“but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.

6 verses Revelation [3 of those concerning the LoF]

Revelation 9:
17...... and out of their mouths came fire<4442>, smoke, and sulfur/brimstone.<2303>
18 By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed—by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths.

Revelation 14
10 “he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation.
He shall be tormented with fire<4442> and brimstone<2303> in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 “And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever;

Some facts about sulfur/brimstone:

Fire and brimstone - Wikipedia
Fire and brimstone (or, alternatively, brimstone and fire)
is an idiomatic expression of referring to God's wrath in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) and the New Testament..................

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ewq1938 · Dec 15, 2018

Ken Rank said:
You have a belief that requires this position.

I don't have a belief. I have what the scriptures present that counters beliefs. Noah was the one taken/accepted not the one left/rejected. All the examples Christ gave about what happens when he returns shows the first ones to be taken and saved, and the last or rejected ones to be left for judgment.

MATT 24 LUKE 17 "ONE TAKEN AND ONE LEFT" DISCUSSION

One taken and one left

The one taken is saved and the one left is the body/corpse

The one taken is the body/corpse and the one left is saved

I don't know but am willing to learn

It doesn't matter

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