Maths?

[Blessed-one]

i was listening to a tape when the speaker brought up a point, in biology, it "proves" that living organisms evolved from simple cells, but biology, doesn't explain how mathematic principles are evolved. Humans only discover these principles.

Isn't universe a great mystery? wouldn't there be someone behind, that designs it all? whoever heard of the changing law of nature, um, unless we're talking about the changing speed of light, but that also was just a discovery on our errors.

 

[Susan]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Ah, that was a good post. I just feel sleepy all of a sudden LOL

 

[Lacmeh]

Mathrmatic principles don´t evolve. They are the same since the beginning of human thought.
There are five mathematical axioms, based on that, the operations were construed.
Mathematic does not change, it just grows as people discover new ways to solve things. For mathematic to change, you have to change one of the five beginning axioms.

 

[A Sheep]

And the five "axioms" started how?

 

[Satoshi]

Axioms are taken to be true and cannot be proven. By denying one axiom or another, one can explore some extremely interesting geometries!

 

[Lacmeh]

They started through common sense.

Axiom of Addition, Multiplikation and the ones concerning the "real numbers."

You can change mathematics only, if you overturn the rules for addition and multiplikation.

 

[A Sheep]

And these rules started how, and whom initiated said rules?

 

[Lacmeh]

This is the rules we all agree upon, I don´t know when they were formalized.

Either you deny, that a+b equals b+a or you accept it. Aceept it and you can´t change addition.
Same goes for multiplikation.
The rules concerning the "real numbers" are the same. "Real numbers" have no misses, between every two numbers there exists a number.

Accepting this and you get the mathematics nowadays.

 

[A Sheep]

And these rules and numbers exist, and work, why?

 

[Lacmeh]

Well why does addition work the way it does?
Why does multiplikation work the way it does? Because we all agreed upon this.
Furthermore you will have to prove, that a+b=b+a is not true.
Why do numbers exist? Perhaps to count something?
This gets really ridiculous you know.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

Numbers do not really exist. Numbers are abstractions that, at the most basic level, are used to count. Mathematics is the myriad of ways in which these abstractions called numbers interact. Mathematics would be theoretically possible even in the absence of any God or universe -just that there would be nobody there to do the math, or for there to be anything to even count. Think about it, numbers don't really exist, but mathematics are very real - and would be possible even without God. And mathematics are what we use to describe the physical reality in which we dwell.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

We have science deniers. THose who claim the Big Bang , evolution , even relativity are frauds, but have little to counter them with except for misquotations, misrepresentations and misunderstandings.

Why are there no Math Deniers? Why does not some nut case with charisma and a bunch of followers claim "We have definitive proof that the Number Seven does not exist! Also, we have proof that a previously unknown number called Bleen exists between four and five! All math is a fruad. We have been lied to by mathematical athiests who claim that God is not necessary for math to exist. Gimme your money!"

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by A Sheep
And these rules and numbers exist, and work, why?

There are various answers to this, but the main answer is "we have no idea, and no way to form any meaningful theories about such things". It's like asking where God came from; it's not even clear that the question is meaningful.

 

[Morat]

  Another way of looking at it is: Math is language. A special one, built entirely to be a useful descriptor of relationships.

  It started simply, with the notion of counting, so as to easily and quickly represent an amount. Once you had amounts, you needed to manipulate them (add, subtract).

   The basic axioms of mathematics were chosen by mathematicians. They are the "rules" of mathematics, similiar to the rules of grammer.

   It's a little more complex than that, but the gist of it is this: No one discovered math. People invented it.