MATHEMATICS IN NATURE PROVES INTELLIGENT DESIGN

[Speedwell]

Same tune different chords.

You do realize, I hope, that Mathematical Realism is

1. Unfalsifiable

2. Not essential to belief in God or any Christian doctrine.

 

[AvgJoe]

That's one opinion. Yet another is that math is (are?) man made languages that are useful for communicating certain types of information. On the plus side for the second claim is the fact we actually see actual people inventing new mathematical concepts. On the minus side for the first one is the complete lack of evidence of god(s) doing much of anything.

Nah, we see man discovering what God created long ago.

 

[HitchSlap]

As I initially explained, I don't find the mindless chemical geniuses explanation acceptable.

Right. Argument from incredulity.

 

[HitchSlap]

Nah, we see man discovering what God created long ago.

And purple Tuesday farting pixies even longer than that.

 

[AvgJoe]

And purple Tuesday farting pixies even longer than that.

Oh, the best one I've heard all day. Got any more?

 

[Speedwell]

Oh, the best one I've heard all day. Got any more?

So why are you defending Mathematical Realism?

 

[HitchSlap]

Oh, the best one I've heard all day. Got any more?

My sentiments exactly.

 

[AvgJoe]

So why are you defending Mathematical Realism?

Not even sure what that is, having never looked into it. I was affirming that God is the Creator of all.

 

[Radrook]

You do realize, I hope, that Mathematical Realism is

1. Unfalsifiable

2. Not essential to belief in God or any Christian doctrine.

You can use semantics and misrepresent what is being said all you wish but it will never manage to nullify the obvious.

 

[Radrook]

Not even sure what that is, having never looked into it. I was affirming that God is the Creator of all.

Amen!

 

[Speedwell]

You can use semantics and misrepresent what is being said all you wish but it will never manage to nullify the obvious.

I always use semantics when I write--grammar and spelling, too.

I have misrepresented nothing. Mathematical Realism is unfalsifiable and not essential to any Christian doctrine.

 

[Speedwell]

Not even sure what that is, having never looked into it. I was affirming that God is the Creator of all.

Mathematical Realism is the philosophical doctrine that mathematics is objectively real and thus was discovered by man rather than invented by him.

 

[HitchSlap]

I was affirming that God is the Creator of all.

And I'm simply affirming that your claim has yet to be established.

 

[Radrook]

Actually, the aversion isn't really against any intelligent designer. Some physicists have suggested extraterrestrial and even extra-dimensional possibilities' in that area. The aversion is if a heaven is mentioned or a God is inferred or if that inference is strongly suspected. Then the claims of inability to see kick in.

BTW
Some physicist's even entertain the possibility of universes where Mickey Mouse and Donald the Duck are a real creatures. However, mention God and the whole discussion suddenly shuts down. They accept the duckish quack and the mousy squeak but not the "Let there be light!""

 

[Archie the Preacher]

One thing we must realize is that mathematics is a human invention.

I have to disagree with this (and this only). The concept of "2 + 2 = 4" is found in nature. No civilization on Earth, nor any civilization in the far reaches of the Universe will ever determine that two items in their understanding with another two items in their understanding will ever find the total number of items so arranged are anything but four in their understanding.

The ratio of the diameter of a circle to the circumference of the same circle - on a two dimensional surface will always be pi, no matter what it is called.

The sides of a right triangle - again in place geometry - will follow the rules of Pythagorus, even if they haven't heard of him.

Mathematics is the human codification of natural laws, perhaps. But none of the precepts therein were 'invented' by humans.

 

[AvgJoe]

Mathematical Realism is the philosophical doctrine that mathematics is objectively real and thus was discovered by man rather than invented by him.

Thanks for the info. I guess affirming that God is the Creator of all, is indirectly supporting that idea, as well.

 

[AvgJoe]

And I'm simply affirming that your claim has yet to be established.

You have proof that it's not?

 

[Speedwell]

I have to disagree with this (and this only). The concept of "2 + 2 = 4" is found in nature. No civilization on Earth, nor any civilization in the far reaches of the Universe will ever determine that two items in their understanding with another two items in their understanding will ever find the total number of items so arranged are anything but four in their understanding.

Which items are these? How do you count them? You say that "number" exists in nature? Where is it?

The ratio of the diameter of a circle to the circumference of the same circle - on a two dimensional surface will always be pi, no matter what it is called.

Show me a perfectly flat surface and a perfectly round circle in nature.

The sides of a right triangle - again in place geometry - will follow the rules of Pythagorus, even if they haven't heard of him.

The theorem of Pythagorus applies exactly only to highly idealized abstract triangles. For real triangular entities it is only ever approximately true.

Mathematics is the human codification of natural laws, perhaps. But none of the precepts therein were 'invented' by humans.

Mathematics, like the other axiomatic formal systems to which it is related, models the order of nature--it does not cause it.

 

[HitchSlap]

You have proof that it's not?

Correct, I have no proof that you've demonstrated god/s exist.

 

[JackRT]

Mathematics is the human codification of natural laws, perhaps. But none of the precepts therein were 'invented' by humans.

When it comes to Euclidian Geometry and Arithmetic I would agree. However many mathematical systems were invented totally without reference to natural laws at all. In some cases these systems have eventually been found to have applications in the natural world. I am not stating anything speculative or philosophical here --- just giving you a small perspective on mathematics, nature and history.