Mathematician/Bioethicist challenges concept of whether DNA is naturalistic

[River Jordan]

You mean like "trinity" or "rapture"?

The concept of those things can be found in scripture, just not those specific labels. The concepts you've been trying to claim aren't in the Bible at all.

 

[AV1611VET]

But that's not a distinction you can make in good faith or honesty.

Really?

Ever heard of the "gift of knowledge"?

Not everyone is given it.

Some are called by God into the pulpit.

Some are called by God into the mission field.

Some are called by God into the laboratory.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Really?

Ever heard of the "gift of knowledge"?

Not everyone is given it.

Some are called by God into the pulpit.

Some are called by God into the mission field.

Some are called by God into the laboratory.

But it's still not a distinction you can make in good faith or honesty.

You don't know everyone nor their hearts and minds. Only God can do that. You're just a man. A man with a massive chip on his shoulder.

 

[River Jordan]

That's because science is myopic.

(They just don't know it.)

We've been over this before too. If you have a better way to do science, then do it! Show everyone how your way gets better results and the world will beat a path to your door.

 

[AV1611VET]

Pairing that data with the number of Christians in those countries shows that most Christians don't share your "science can take a hike" views.

And what are those views?

Can you name all six of them?

And aren't you the one who wants me to add a seventh?

You say "most Christians don't share my views."

I say "most Christians don't KNOW my views."

Let alone share them.

Plus, large denominations like Catholics and Orthodox Christians have publicly stated that there's no conflict between the two.

Let's put it this way:

There SHOULDN'T be any conflict between them.

 

[River Jordan]

But that's not a distinction you can make in good faith or honesty.

It's more of what he and I talked about yesterday (everyone who disagrees with him has to be wrong).

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

It's more of what he and I talked about yesterday (everyone who disagrees with him has to be wrong).

Yeah, 100%. His view and only his view is correct. Nothing else matters.

 

[AV1611VET]

The concept of those things can be found in scripture, just not those specific labels.

-- Oh, boy.

The concepts you've been trying to claim aren't in the Bible at all.

Not by name.

(Unless you want to employ your double standard.)

If you're going to critique me for "evolution" not being in the Bible, then don't tell me the trinity is in the Bible either.

 

[River Jordan]

And what are those views?

Can you name all six of them?

And aren't you the one who wants me to add a seventh?

You say "most Christians don't share my views."

I say "most Christians don't KNOW my views."

Let alone share them.



Let's put it this way:

There SHOULDN'T be any conflict between them.

I think you may have missed the point. Most Christians, including two of the largest Christian denominations, don't share your "science can take a hike" belief and have no problem reconciling the findings of science with Christianity.

 

[River Jordan]

Not by name.

Not in concept or in any way whatsoever.

If you're going to critique me for "evolution" not being in the Bible, then don't tell me the trinity is in the Bible either.

There's nothing in scripture that even hints at what you tried to claim. There is lots in scripture that describes the Trinity even though that specific term isn't used.

 

[AV1611VET]

But it's still not a distinction you can make in good faith or honesty.

And you can?

You don't know everyone nor their hearts and minds.

I can know them by their fruits, can't I?

Only God can do that.

Their speech bewrayeth them.

You're just a man.

Am I an animal as well?

Like Adam was?

A mutant copy error, made in the image and likeness of God?

A man with a massive chip on his shoulder.

You'd like to think that, wouldn't you?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

And you can?

I don't claim to.

I can know them by their fruits, can't I?

Considering how much you falsely attribute to science regardless of what you're told, I hold that in doubt.

Their speech bewrayeth them.

Betrayeth. And again: Considering how much you falsely attribute to science regardless of what you're told, I hold that in doubt.

Am I an animal as well?

Like Adam was?

A mutant copy error, made in the image and likeness of God?

Aye, a man.

You'd like to think that, wouldn't you?

Speaking of 'their speech betrayeth them'...

 

[AV1611VET]

We've been over this before too. If you have a better way to do science, then do it! Show everyone how your way gets better results and the world will beat a path to your door.

I don't know a better way.

Science is myopic because God has placed a veil over our eyes.

But Satan uses his infrastructure (the Muses) to outright blind them to the ability to be able to meld what little facts they do have with the Truth.

 

[AV1611VET]

I think you may have missed the point. Most Christians, including two of the largest Christian denominations, don't share your "science can take a hike" belief and have no problem reconciling the findings of science with Christianity.

And those two largest denominations (whichever you had in mind) are shipwrecked, aren't they?

Are you familiar with the term: psychoheresy?

 

[AV1611VET]

Not in concept or in any way whatsoever.

Well here they are again, for your edification:

1. Bible says x, Science says x = go with x
2. Bible says x, Science says y = go with x
3. Bible says x, Science says ø = go with x
4. Bible says ø, Science says x = go with x
5. Bible says ø, Science says ø = free to speculate on your own

Prime Directive: Under no circumstances whatsoever is the Bible to be contradicted.

There's nothing in scripture that even hints at what you tried to claim.

Too hard to see?

Is something getting in the way?

There is lots in scripture that describes the Trinity even though that specific term isn't used.

Bingo.

Now apply that mindset to macroevolution.

 

[River Jordan]

I don't know a better way.

Then your criticisms are hollow.

Science is myopic because God has placed a veil over our eyes.

But Satan uses his infrastructure (the Muses) to outright blind them to the ability to be able to meld what little facts they do have with the Truth.

Those are your unique beliefs, yes. Not all Christians agree.

And those two largest denominations (whichever you had in mind) are shipwrecked, aren't they?

Because they dare disagree with you?

Are you familiar with the term: psychoheresy?

No.

 

[River Jordan]

Well here they are again, for your edification:

1. Bible says x, Science says x = go with x
2. Bible says x, Science says y = go with x
3. Bible says x, Science says ø = go with x
4. Bible says ø, Science says x = go with x
5. Bible says ø, Science says ø = free to speculate on your own

Prime Directive: Under no circumstances whatsoever is the Bible to be contradicted.

We've come full circle now, and you're still mixing up "the Bible" with "my interpretations".

Too hard to see?

Is something getting in the way?

The fact that it's just not there.

Bingo.

Now apply that mindset to macroevolution.

Not even close to the same thing.

 

[AV1611VET]

And those two largest denominations (whichever you had in mind) are shipwrecked, aren't they?

Because they dare disagree with you?

Don't blame that on me.

 

[Bradskii]

Is that what you yourself believe? Do you believe in a Creator God?

I'm an atheist.

I'm a bit confused because you will address the development of knowledge in man, but still avoid addressing the fact that it all pre-existed prior to man's perception of it. Who set all that, including the whole creation and the laws governing it, into motion and ready and waiting for man to discover?

Wrong interrogative pronoun. It should be 'what'.

Gravity pre-existed Newton's perception of it, no?

Everything existed before anyone's perception of it.

Don't wait on me. Ask Him yourself! He's eagerly waiting for us all to seek wisdom from Him out of gratitude for what He has done for us.

I don't usually talk to people I don't think exist. I leave that to others.

How do I know?

Faith.

Give Him another shot. The amassing of head knowledge doesn't quite fulfill all of our desires, does it?

Apparently not in your case. Let me know if you need that reading list. I feel I have an unfair advantage.

 

[Joseph G]

Is that how you read my post?

God warns us not to take His creation the wrong way, or it will end up with the person denying Him.

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Embracing evolution to the point that we are all Homo sapiens (wise men) can end up a person saying in his heart, "There is no God."

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Academia can spoil you, if you buy into her:

1. philosophers
2. empty arguments
3. men's traditions
4. the periodic table of the elements (reducing everything down to chemical reactions)

1 Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Giving heed to endless genealogies (macroevolution):

1. generates questions after questions after questions (ever learning, but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth)
2. prevents God from being edified through faith

Ecclesiastes 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

Here, the wisest secular man on earth, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, points out that evolution is an "invention."

That is, not a "discovery," like academia teaches.

Here's another one, AV...

Romans 1:25 NIV

"They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen."

I don't know about you, but this and all of your verses (and more) applied to me half of my life - until Jesus set me free. It's why I know whereof I speak. Let's keep praying all will search out and embrace His Good News. It's why He came here, right? God bless!

Luke 4:14-21 NIV

"Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside. He was teaching in their synagogues, and everyone praised him.

He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:

"The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”