Mat 24:22 "Unless those days had been cut short

[Partaker of Christ]

Mat 24:21 "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Mat 24:22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
Mat 24:23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.
[FONT=&quot]Mat 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

[/FONT] Jesus said that there would be great tribulation, and that those days would be cut short for the sake of the elect.
He then goes on to say "THEN"...."Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ', or 'There He is,' do not believe him."

If Christ had already come before the great tribulation (per trib), then why would He warn about false Christ's appearing after the great tribulation?

 

[Interplanner]

Because it is not about the future. It is about the events of 66+. He did provide an escape--it was to have people in Jerusalem get out safely during a delay in the siege.

--Inter

 

[Partaker of Christ]

Because it is not about the future. It is about the events of 66+. He did provide an escape--it was to have people in Jerusalem get out safely during a delay in the siege.

--Inter

Mat 24:29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Mat 24:30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

 

[Interplanner]

I understand your question Partaker (though not expressed as a question). I have offered the explanation many times. The end of the world was expected 'immediately after' the destruction of Jerusalem. (Mt 24:29+). But there was always the allowance that only the Father knew that part of the deal. we all know what happened.

The things after 29 are more cosmic (not confined to Judea) and there are no Judaic particulars in them.

(I am not alone in thinking that he returned to the nearby and immediate for 32-51 and stressed the attention to what was happening to them.)

--Inter

 

[Ebed]

Yeshua said He was going away for a Long Time

After a long time the Adonai of those servants comes, and reckons with them. Mat 25:19

YAHUWAH told us beforehand through the prophet Hosea that He would Return to His Place for Two Days for the offenses of the House of Judah and the House of Israel. Hosea 5:15-6:2

He left His Place when He took upon flesh and dwelt among us, laying down His Life, a Servant unto death upon the cross/tree

Peter says do not be Ignorant Mishpocah, without knowledge, stuck on stupid - that one day with YHWH as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day

How long is the Day of YHWH- One thousand years, the day starts at sunset, then the darkest hour -Midnight - The Great Tribulation, on eagles wings going towards Tzion

If these two days are not shortened, No flesh would survive, man would destroy himself, before the two thousand years that Yeshua said He would go away had come to an end.

The Two Houses of Yisrael will acknowledge their offences

In their Affliction/Great Tribulation...They will seek Him - Real Quick

youtube.com/watch?v=w6n77BCBGiE

 

[Choose Wisely]

Mat 24:21 "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Mat 24:22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
Mat 24:23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.
[FONT=&quot]Mat 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

[/FONT]Jesus said that there would be great tribulation, and that those days would be cut short for the sake of the elect.
He then goes on to say "THEN"...."Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ', or 'There He is,' do not believe him."

If Christ had already come before the great tribulation (per trib), then why would He warn about false Christ's appearing after the great tribulation?

Simple there are two raptures. Pre trib like the days of Noah and Pre wrath like the days of Lot.

The elect are the Chosen people, not the church. That's why he gives them specific instructions to those in Judea to flee to the mountains.

In an hour which you think not the son of man cometh.

 

[rdclmn72]

Days being cut short appears in Daniel where they are being round up for execution.
Zechariah tells us that Jerusalem is taken and before they can be massacred, they are saved through the appearance of the Lord whereupon the enemies die upon the mountains of Israel.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Days being cut short appears in Daniel where they are being round up for execution.
Zechariah tells us that Jerusalem is taken and before they can be massacred, they are saved through the appearance of the Lord whereupon the enemies die upon the mountains of Israel.

Gee.......that shoots another hole in post trib but is just more proof of two raptures. God is dealing with his ELECT at the time of tribulation.

 

[Biblewriter]

Mat 24:21 "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Mat 24:22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
Mat 24:23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.
[FONT=&quot]Mat 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

[/FONT] Jesus said that there would be great tribulation, and that those days would be cut short for the sake of the elect.
He then goes on to say "THEN"...."Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ', or 'There He is,' do not believe him."

If Christ had already come before the great tribulation (per trib), then why would He warn about false Christ's appearing after the great tribulation?

It was a warning to unbelievers. Jesus himself said, "“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” (John 10:1-5))

And when challenged, he answered, "you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, qv://steplinkto1 0000034594as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand." (John 10:26-29)

The true believers, (Jesus' sheep) can not be deceived by false Messiahs. But He was warning others to not be deceived.

But as to the question of whether or not this was speaking of the last days, when I was young (and that was a long time ago) I pondered long over this passage, saying over and over to myself, :I just can't conceive of a war that would literally kill everybody-- and everything! But today, it is common knowledge that an all out nuclear exchange would leave no survivors on this planet, human or animal. When that became common knowledge, I finally understood that this was a specific reference to the nuclear threat. Jesus himself referred to it, and said that if he did not step in, it would most certainly happen. But then He also said that He would step in before it went that far. Why? for the sake of His elect.

 

[Interplanner]

Partaker,
another note about this which I have seen often is that there double-backs by Christ as he is speaking in Mt 24 & //s. We in the west desparately want absolutely tight chronology but there is none such in many passages.

It helps enormously to realize that he is on the topic of the destruction of Jerusalem (v2) until v 29. Then the end of the world, with some return to the immediate calamity, though.

Or think of the various features as a list. He's not going on (in time) but "down" his list.

Vs. 23's at that time maybe helps: read "at the same time as the things listed above".

You can see that he sort of "ended" at the end of 14, but 15 goes back to further description of the calamity. So it is not that 15 is later, but there are more features to articulate.

Now when you get to 29 you really do have a case of running into the "next" thing, which would be the end of the world. I would say this ends at 31 and many others have, and then 32 is "another feature" or at least another advisory of immediate value. That's why "this generation" will see this calamity (v 34), though they might not see the end of the world, which is the very next subject (the delay) in v36.

V 48 hints that the end of the world would be a long time; but is the end of the world the only reference of the paragraph? Why not the immediate calamity in Jerusalem again?

Or again, as far as that goes, why not refer to the confusion and indecision of the 7th decade in terms of the days of Noah? It fits. It was very confusing, and "one taken, one left" is a way of saying people were 50/50 about whether to stay and fight Rome or leave.

The marker the Christians were to watch for was the surrounding of Jerusalem and then the guy who takes over the temple. There are very significant details about the Jewish War that this refers to. But those were the signals to leave (Lk 21; Mt 24:15).

--Inter

 

[Codger]

I understand your question Partaker (though not expressed as a question). I have offered the explanation many times. The end of the world was expected 'immediately after' the destruction of Jerusalem. (Mt 24:29+). But there was always the allowance that only the Father knew that part of the deal. we all know what happened.

--Inter

You are right on - I don't understand why this simple concept is so hard to understand. You need to carry it just one step more and you eliminate the doctrines of Futurism altogether. Jesus taught all of his followers about his imminent return after the destruction of Jerusalem. The obvious point of logic here is ""what if He had come again the second time on schedule just as he said he would." How could all of these post 70AD prophesies of Futurism be fulfilled? They can't because everything Jesus said about the events preceding the Second Coming had been fulfilled at that point in time.

Furthermore, you cannot blend the eschatology of John in Revelation with the eschatology of Jesus because the slate was wiped clean in 70AD. John's book of Revelation starts a new era of prophesy.

 

[Manasseh_]

The elect are the Chosen people, not the church. That's why he gives them specific instructions to those in Judea to flee to the mountains.

more hogwash from the pretrib doctrine..............the elect in Christ's Olivet prophecy are the church..........elect in the greek is eklektos which means chosen, the same greek word used elsewhere in the NT is referring to God's chosen through Christ ,1Pe_1:2; Rom_1:7; Eph_1:4; 1Th_1:4......................I haven't found ONE VERSE where this word is used to infer the nation (Tribes ) of Israel.............


the same word is used in the same chapter.................
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

"shall gather together his ELECT"..............greek eklektos...........same word which means chosen..............Christ doesn't gather the nation of Israel in this gathering, this elect are his saints , his body, his bride, his CHURCH

Christ was giving his prophecy to his servants ONLY, not to anyone else
Mat_13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.................in addition anyone can read the end of he previous chapter (Matt 23) before Christ gave this Olivet prophecy, just before he left the temple he told those unbelievers they would not hear him again until they would finally say blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord (Christ's second coming) when the nation of Israel would finally be redeemed...........which would finally fulfill Jeremiah's prophecy...................

Jer_30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's (Israel's) trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.


it's obvious why pretribbers attempt to say the elect are not Christ's ............because he also said he doesn't come until AFTER TRIBULATION to gather these elect and that they do go through the great tribulation in this same chapter, this obviously poses a big problem for pretribbers so they have to change the elect here to be the nation of Israel instead of what the scripture teaches here............just one of many of this doctrines lies and deceits............

 

[Ronald]

He then goes on to say "THEN"...."Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ', or 'There He is,' do not believe him."

If Christ had already come before the great tribulation (per trib), then why would He warn about false Christ's appearing after the great tribulation?[/

Good point, I missed that one. Clearly the message is to Christians and if we were gone (like the pre-tribbers think), then how could we hear or believe in a false announcement, Here He is ... There He is ...?

 

[Interplanner]

Christ doesn't have two sets of people. These things are taking place in that generation, in the 7th decade. The letter of Ephesians has been widely circulated! (ie, there is one people who have recieved the promises of Israel). The warning of Mt 24 & //s about leaving are to any Christians still in the country when the decimation of Jerusalem resumes (there was an interruption because Rome nearly fell apart itself!). They were told to leave when they see it surrounded and when they see an evil guy in the temple where he wasn't (Levitically) supposed to be--one of the Zealot leaders killed the standing high priest.

The materials are not as tight chronologically as we would like. There are things to list, things to repeat, things to cover double. Vs 23 is doubling up on vs 5, etc.

None of this has to do with tribs or rapts or mills or crips or bloods!

Vs 29 is certainly a demarkation going on to the end of the world and cosmic signs as expected, through at least vs 31. But 32 to maybe the end of ch 25 are again about very immediate things: this generation will see all these things happen; near, near, near, right at the door!

--Inter

 

[zeke37]

I understand your question Partaker (though not expressed as a question). I have offered the explanation many times. The end of the world was expected 'immediately after' the destruction of Jerusalem. (Mt 24:29+). But there was always the allowance that only the Father knew that part of the deal. we all know what happened.

The things after 29 are more cosmic (not confined to Judea) and there are no Judaic particulars in them.

(I am not alone in thinking that he returned to the nearby and immediate for 32-51 and stressed the attention to what was happening to them.)

--Inter

so, you think He already come back a Second time, per Heb9??

 

[rdclmn72]

Its actually Hebrews that are told to flee to the mountains, Judah and Israel are interchangeable as of the intertestamental period.
Judah itself is a mountain range, so, it can't be them.

 

[Interplanner]

re Heb 9 and 2nd coming:
I don't get the sense that the end of 9 is as tethered to the 7th decade as is 6:7+ or 12:18+. But I can see why the original reader would. They would because Mt 24 & //s are about it up to a point. The end of the world was expected to be 'immediately after' the trauma of the destruction of Jerusalem. they also would because the 2nd coming, says Heb 9, won't be "to bear sin." So then what will it be for? The renewal of heaven and earth, yes, eventually. Or just to see the conflict between the Jewish rebels and Rome over and done? That would be a relief, hanging over the land since 6 AD when Judas the Galilean first tried. That would after all be a form of salvation viewed by Zeharias in Luke 1, and hoped for in Luke 2.

--Inter

 

[Choose Wisely]

More hogwash from the pretrib doctrine..............

[/COLOR]
Know anything about pearls.

the elect in Christ's Olivet prophecy are the church..........elect in the greek is eklektos which means chosen,

Yeah.....chosen....as in Chosen People.

the same greek word used elsewhere in the NT is referring to God's chosen through Christ ,1Pe_1:2; Rom_1:7; Eph_1:4; 1Th_1:4......................I haven't found ONE VERSE where this word is used to infer the nation (Tribes ) of Israel.............

Only the man that seeks, finds..........and yet........

Isaiah 45
3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

the same word is used in the same chapter.................
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

There is a reason that the church is not mentioned after Rev 3. Need any clues?

"shall gather together his ELECT"..............greek eklektos...........same word which means chosen..............Christ doesn't gather the nation of Israel in this gathering, this elect are his saints , his body, his bride, his CHURCH

The ark door is shut long before this happens..........7 days.

it's obvious why pretribbers attempt to say the elect are not Christ's ............because he also said he doesn't come until AFTER TRIBULATION to gather these elect and that they do go through the great tribulation in this same chapter, this obviously poses a big problem for pretribbers so they have to change the elect here to be the nation of Israel instead of what the scripture teaches here............just one of many of this doctrines lies and deceits............

There is no problem for the pre tribbers. They will escape the hour of testing. The problem is finding the church after Rev 3. The church is not Jacob nor Israel.

In an hour which you think not........the son of man cometh.

 

[Manasseh_]

Only the man that seeks, finds..........and yet........

and only the man who reads carefully understands what's being said................

if you had read my quote carefully you would have noticed I said "THIS WORD"..............the greek word eklektos , the language that God chose for the NT to be written in................the word in question in Matt 24, Christ's Olivet prophecy................not the hebrew word in the OT in Isaiah 45...................did you really think I didn't know these verses in Isaiah.....................

the context of the elect in the Olivet prophecy is that Christ is speaking ONLY to his apostles and the information from Mark's account he is only speaking to 4 of them................

Mar 13:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,

Christ was not giving his message to or for the nation of Israel...........Israel was split and scattered hundreds of years before the house of Israel and the house of Judah...............just as they are to this very day among the nations

those of the house of Judah would not believe Christ..........this was a PRIVATE MESSAGE for his servants only (ELECT,) men who were part of the very foundation that he would build his CHURCH on

Eph_2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Mat_13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

the message in the Olivet prophecy was a private message for God's servants only , it's a message of warnings, what to be watchful for and it's a message of promise made directly by Christ and his message says he will come AFTER tribulation to gather his (ELECT) church, bride...................

Christ wasn't addressing Israel and his message wasn't given to Israel as your false doctrine tries to teach.........and all your scripture twisting with your false doctrine of pretrib will never change this truth

 

[Choose Wisely]

did you really think I didn't know these verses in Isaiah.....................

Well, you don't understand that Luke 21 is not in line with Matt 24 and Mark 13.......... so even if you know about about the verses, it does not mean you understand.
See Pre trib rapture.

AFTER tribulation to gather his (ELECT) church, bride...................

The church will be in heaven.......he will be coming for his ELECT, CHOSEN.........REGRAFTED..................Israel.

Christ wasn't addressing Israel and his message wasn't given to Israel as your false doctrine tries to teach.........and all your scripture twisting with your false doctrine of pretrib will never change this truth

There is no proof that the church is on earth after Rev 3. Why after 3 chapters of CHURCH......CHURCH.....CHURCH can it not be found.

Hint..........pre trib.............