Masturbation

[david_x]

How can something be false and real, but called only real and have no fictional elements?

IDK what you're talking about, or trying to say.

I'll say this, I wouldn't want someone masturbating to a caricature of me either.

 

[katautumn]

I always wandered if lust is only just a simple sexual thought or getting aroused from seeing something or someone that looks sexy.

Lust is the intense and unbridled desire for that which you cannot have. Let's say my husband and I went back in time and we were dating again. Let's say I gave him a nice, big hug and it aroused him. That doesn't mean he would be lusting after me. It just means me being close to him is exciting. Lust would be if he was constantly locking himself in the bathroom for hours at a time having sexual and emotional thoughts about his brother's wife and spending hours scheming and plotting ways to obtain her.

The problem with the church, since the beginning of history, is how they perceive God and our relationship with Him. In Christ we are supposed to have more freedom than anyone else. This doesn't mean we can go out and rape, steal, lie, gossip, slander, abuse people, etc. Obviously someone walking with Christ would be convicted against doing these things. With that said, when the priests controlled all religious worship, there was heavy emphasis on how anything that makes a person happy or pleasured was sinful. You were to deny yourself all joys in life or you were sinning. Worship was very somber. Just look at the Opus Dei, which incorporates self-mortification as a means to atone for sins.

It is no wonder masturbation is such a hot-button issue among Christians, and it's an issue that is not even discussed in the Bible. One would think if this was such a grievous sin and an issue that can affect one's salvation it would be clearly written in the word. Sure, there are passages that can be twisted and stretched to support the claim that masturbation is "evil", but the same could be said for anything from listening to secular music, drinking a beer every now and then or women wearing pants.

Obviously God wants us to be freed from the shackles of addiction, so if masturbation becomes compulsive or is accompanied by viewing pornography or it interferes with a person's walk with Christ or daily life then it should be addressed and the person should strive to set things right; however, I feel that God is not the author of confusion. He never planned for us to wander through life second-guessing what's right and what's wrong when it's so clearly spelled out. If masturbation was really a big deal it would be laid out clearly in the Scriptures.

 

[Zebra1552]

IDK what you're talking about, or trying to say.

I'll say this, I wouldn't want someone masturbating to a caricature of me either.

I'm saying it's not really you they're focusing on.

 

[david_x]

I'm saying it's not really you they're focusing on.

It's an image of me, that's enough.

 

[Zebra1552]

It's an image of me, that's enough.

Next you'll be arguing that you have a problem with anyone thinking about having sex with someone that looks like you. You can't apply your argument consistently.

 

[david_x]

Next you'll be arguing that you have a problem with anyone thinking about having sex with someone that looks like you. You can't apply your argument consistently.

Only if it is me, or my body.

 

[Zebra1552]

My point still applies. Your argument is inconsistent.

 

[david_x]

My point still applies. Your argument is inconsistent.

Your point can't change how anyone feels.

 

[RMDY]

Right, that's why the Pharisees got ticked when Jesus exposed their hypocrisy. The whole ripping on the hypocrites thing had nothing to do with it, whatsoever. Come on, you've been around the block enough to know better.

Um, I can't help but notice that almost every post of this discussion you bring up the topic of legalists, hypocrites, and pharasees.

The Pharasee's were part of the God's plan for Jesus' death, just as Judas and the apostles had been as well. It was all part of prophecy to pave the way for the death of the messiah, but, you need to understand that was not the reason why he died.

Jesus didn't die just because some pharasee's wanted him dead, Jesus died because he willingly went to his death for the forgiveness of sins. Jesus himself said that he could have had many angels deliver him from the pharasees if he wanted to.(Matthew 26:53) He died because he was doing the will of the Father.

 

[RMDY]

C'mon guys. Jesus was crucified because it was God's plan. If the Jewish leaders and Romans hadn't done it He would have found someone else to carry out His plan.

God's plan = forgiveness of sins through Jesus

 

[Zebra1552]

Your point can't change how anyone feels.

Your point being? Feelings are not always logical. Why trust them?

 

[Zebra1552]

Um, I can't help but notice that almost every post of this discussion you bring up the topic of legalists, hypocrites, and pharasees.

I would really like to see you back this claim. Go on... give me a list of every one of my posts in this thread that do this.

The Pharasee's were part of the God's plan for Jesus' death, just as Judas and the apostles had been as well. It was all part of prophecy to pave the way for the death of the messiah, but, you need to understand that was not the reason why he died.

Humanly speaking it most certainly was. It's all over the Gospels.

Jesus didn't die just because some pharasee's wanted him dead, Jesus died because he willingly went to his death for the forgiveness of sins. Jesus himself said that he could have had many angels deliver him from the pharasees if he wanted to.(Matthew 26:53) He died because he was doing the will of the Father.

Are you unable to separate the spiritual from the physical reasons of Jesus' death? You are also speaking with hindsight bias.

 

[RMDY]

I would really like to see you back this claim. Go on... give me a list of every one of my posts in this thread that do this.

I was speaking from my perspective. I dunno, I just read that you mention them a lot. I wasn't accusing you or any wrong doing, just I thought I recalled in a lot of our discussions that you kept asserting that prohibiting touching yourself was a form of legalism.

Humanly speaking it most certainly was. It's all over the Gospels.

"This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge" (Acts 2:23). Wicked men only helped put the plan in motion, they were not the primary reason that Jesus was put to death.

Are you unable to separate the spiritual from the physical reasons of Jesus' death? You are also speaking with hindsight bias.

Peter himself said that Jesus 'was handed over to you by God's set purpose'. Wicked men were only a part of it, not the primary reason.

What is this accusation your making against me? Why do you accuse me of being unable to separate the spiritual from the physical? Is it because I disagree with your narrow view that the reason that Jesus did not die was for the redemption of mankind and because pharasees put him to death? I reject what you say because we must take a spiritual view on these things and not look at it from just a human perspective.

 

[Zebra1552]

I was speaking from my perspective. I dunno, I just read that you mention them a lot. I wasn't accusing you or any wrong doing, just I thought I recalled in a lot of our discussions that you kept asserting that prohibiting touching yourself was a form of legalism.

While I agree because masturbation is not in the Bible, I am usually not that persistent on one particular point.

"This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge" (Acts 2:23). Wicked men only helped put the plan in motion, they were not the primary reason that Jesus was put to death.

We're not talking about the primary reason.

Peter himself said that Jesus 'was handed over to you by God's set purpose'. Wicked men were only a part of it, not the primary reason.

We're not talking about the primary reason there either.

What is this accusation your making against me? Why do you accuse me of being unable to separate the spiritual from the physical?

Because this is the third time you have tried to tell me I/we are wrong in saying that Jesus died because of his beliefs about the Pharisees being hypocritical while providing no reasoning for our assertion being false save to ignore the human reasons and focus on the spiritual reasons.

Is it because I disagree with your narrow view that the reason that Jesus did not die was for the redemption of mankind and because pharasees put him to death? I reject what you say because we must take a spiritual view on these things and not look at it from just a human perspective.

You have told us, by implication, that we are wrong, that Christ's condemnation of the Pharisee's hypocrisy was not a factor in His death, and that is not the truth. By any stretch of the imagination. That is why I accuse you of being unable to separate the physical from the spiritual. I have a Christian icon, same as you. Perhaps you could use your critical thinking to analyze how your statements are interpreted rather than jumping down my throat.

 

[david_x]

Your point being? Feelings are not always logical. Why trust them?

Why? Romans 14:15 and Matthew 22:39

 

[Zebra1552]

Your verses do not give me a reason for why I should be trusting feelings over reason in a situation of ethics. It is a red herring.

 

[david_x]

Your verses do not give me a reason for why I should be trusting feelings over reason in a situation of ethics. It is a red herring.

...really? That doesn't make sense.

 

[Zebra1552]

Yes, really, and it makes perfect sense. I stated:

Feelings are not always logical. Why trust them?

Then you give me two verses on loving others? That has nothing to do with the above statement and question.

 

[david_x]

Yes, really, and it makes perfect sense. I stated:



Then you give me two verses on loving others? That has nothing to do with the above statement and question.

If someone feels violated when you look at pictures of them naked, why would you continue to do so. That is what the verses addressed, the original point.

 

[Zebra1552]

If someone feels violated when you look at pictures of them naked, why would you continue to do so. That is what the verses addressed, the original point.

How would they know? And how would you know how they feel?