Masturbation

[Gukkor]

You should re-read my post. I think you misunderstood
me.

Vossler,

No, I don't think about those things. But I am with her. I am commiting the marital act in it's proper place.
I do not mean to say that you don't love your wife in the best way possible. It sounds like you do, and I am happy for you. It is only one possible problem.

If i am completely over taken by the material of her body, I will focus my thoughts back on her AND her body, in unity.

But all that is beside the point, as we are dealing with MastUrbation, not Sex.

You say that it is "Normal". By whose standards? To use the "Ray Comfort Method" If you mean by human standards, those of the world, then yeah, I guess it is normal. But then again, so is swearing, getting drunk, sleeping around, divorce, abortion, lying, cheating, stealing, lazyness, veiwing inappropriate contentography, smoking, etc. But to God, the ultimate normal, these things are disordered and WRONG.

One more question. Could you, in all honesty and truth, see Jesus, the Christ, the Son of the Living God, masturbating? If you can, maybe you think he was also married and had kids and died an old man in his bed.

Now profanity's wrong too? When'd that happen? Last time I checked, the certain words deemed profanity by society were only frowned upon by certain people, not by God.

In any case, I'm afraid the "what would Jesus do" strawman won't work here. One could just as easily make the same statement you did, except replace "masturbating" with "eating and drinking," and it would be just as (in)valid. The fact that Jesus may or may not have engaged in a decidedly human activity has nothing to do with whether or not said activity is actually sinful (and if He did, it in fact only proves the sinlessness of the activity), nor does it say anything about Christ's divinity or one's belief in it.

 

[cm24]

Now profanity's wrong too? When'd that happen? Last time I checked, the certain words deemed profanity by society were only frowned upon by certain people, not by God.

In any case, I'm afraid the "what would Jesus do" strawman won't work here. One could just as easily make the same statement you did, except replace "masturbating" with "eating and drinking," and it would be just as (in)valid. The fact that Jesus may or may not have engaged in a decidedly human activity has nothing to do with whether or not said activity is actually sinful (and if He did, it in fact only proves the sinlessness of the activity), nor does it say anything about Christ's divinity or one's belief in it.

Can you see your self letting go a "#!#%& *(@@#! %%!$@# @@!!!!??:!"@ ""?>$$#%@ !!!!!" in Church? If so, I would seek help.

And, yes, the "strawman" does work here, because eating and drinking are not, in themselves, morally objectionable. MastUrbation is.

A more accurate parallel would be- can you see Jesus eating forty-two big macs, then going to the bathroom and sticking his finger down his throat? Of course not, because he would have denied himself for the sake of others in the first place, and in the second, he wouldn't have wasted that which the Lord had provided him.

The analogy is equal to mastUrbation, because in both instances something was taken that was objectivly good- namely eating and sex within the context of Marriage- and turned into something that was objectivley wrong- namely MastUrbation, gluttony and anorexia.

Notice I used the word "objectively" not "subjectivley".
Someone who is addicted to mastUrbation or feels immense pressure from both the stomach and their freinds, is more than likley not totally culpable for their sin.

Your last sentence makes it sound like you wrote "The Divinci Code" Are you really Dan Brown in Disguise?

 

[Theophorus]

......

 

[vossler]

No, I don't think about those things. But I am with her. I am commiting the marital act in it's proper place.

Good, we agree here.

You say that it is "Normal". By whose standards? To use the "Ray Comfort Method" If you mean by human standards, those of the world, then yeah, I guess it is normal. But then again, so is swearing, getting drunk, sleeping around, divorce, abortion, lying, cheating, stealing, lazyness, veiwing inappropriate contentography, smoking, etc. But to God, the ultimate normal, these things are disordered and WRONG.

I'm all for God's standard, the thing is though you've got to show me where it is, you can't just tell me. Given that all the other things you've mentioned can be all clearly identified as sinful behaviors, I don't think it is proper to put masturbation into that group since it isn't in any way shape or form clearly identified as a sin.

One more question. Could you, in all honesty and truth, see Jesus, the Christ, the Son of the Living God, mastUrbating?

No I couldn't, but Jesus being sexual in any capacity isn't something I could ever envision either.

If you can, maybe you think he was also married and had kids and died an old man in his bed.

Please don't patronize me, if this is the dialog or path you're choosing to entertain I have nothing left to say to you.

 

[cm24]

I'm sorry if I came across as patronizing, but I was just trying to head you off at the pass. Actually not really you, because from the tone of your posts, I can see that your not like that, but other people who might read this.

Good point about Jesus and sex. Not sure how to answer that one. Give me a minute.

 

[cm24]

I'm sorry if I came across as patronizing, but I was just trying to head you off at the pass. Actually not really you, because from the tone of your posts, I can see that your not like that, but other people who might read this.

Good point about Jesus and sex. Not sure how to answer that one. Give me a minute.

My goodness! Is that the time!? Aren't we a bunch of insomniacs!!

Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. (1 Corinthians 6:18)

Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, (etc. Colossians 3:5).

This is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God; that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified. For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit. (1 Thessalonians 4:3-8)

These quotes were taken from this website-
http://www.atruechurch.info/masturbation.html
I would suggest visiting it if you have an open mind about this.

When we come right down to it, I have no answer to your comment of our Lord's celebicy.

But, and you knew there would be a but, masturbation is not about giving yourself to another, it is about doing something only for ourselves. Who derives pleasure from it? No one else but yourself. Who do you do it for? Yourself. The point I was trying to make was that Jesus would not be so selfish as to do something only for himself. This is the deeper root of the sin of masturbation.

I would ask that you at least consider the possibility. What are the consequences for you if I am wrong, and you are right? Minimal. What if I am right, and you are wrong? Catastophic. This is Paschal's wager. Is it not better to err on the side of caution, and do something that will make your life and marriage better anyway, and quit masturbating?

Forgive me for harsh remarks in the heat of an argument. Remind me to love if you come across such a post of mine again. This goes for Gukkor to. Forgive me.

-cm24

 

[rusmeister]

Edited by me at staff request.

Rusmeister

 

[jamie4418]

On Sunday, August 6, 2006, I threw out all of my inappropriate content. It was a tough decision, but I knew I had to do it.
I don't say this to boast. I am only a servant of the Lord Jesus. I do it for Him, and to Him be the glory.
I have not been right with God for the last 7 years. I fell away from God because I felt my life wasn't getting better, and I began to lose faith. I really wondered if there was a hell. I believed that maybe we all go to heaven. But I believe this to be absolutely untrue. We don't all go to heaven. Only those who are in the Lord Jesus Christ, either when we die, or when the Lord returns will be with Him in eternity. Those who do not know him, will spend eternity in hell. I thank the Lord that He has brought me back to the truth. Seriously, I could have died during those 7 years, but I thank the Lord for his mercy.
The things that I threw away were: magazines, video cassettes, DVDs, inappropriate content saved on CDs, and inappropriate content saved on my HD. Unfortunately, it's hard because I still have the internet which can be a source for so much inappropriate contentography. Internet inappropriate contentography is probably the thing that makes us men fall the most because it is so readily available.
I think one thing that we have to remember as we battle inappropriate contentography is that we are serving the Lord. If we go let's say 3 months without masturbating or looking at inappropriate content, that is not to our credit. We can't boast about that. We are giving that effort and accomplishment to the Lord. It's not about commending ourselves. I think this is something we christians forget. When we fail, we are failing the Lord. The Lord is forgiving and loving to us, and that's why we serve him. But I believe he hates inappropriate contentography. He did say it would be better for us to cut off our body parts than it would be to go to hell. I don't believe he was being allegorical. I believe he was serious when he said that. If we can't cut off our body parts, then we must be absolutely serious in our obedience to him.
So far, in my life back with the Lord, I have been faithful to him and not looked at any inappropriate contentography. If I do fall, it will be because of online inappropriate contentography because like I said, it is the most readily available. What has helped me is this. I have two computers. One upstairs, and one downstairs. I have absolutely determined that I will not look at inappropriate content on the upstairs computer. Remember, there are serious online security concerns with certain inappropriate contentsites too. If I do fall, I have determined to do it on the downstairs computer. However, another thing that will help is software on xxxchurch.com called x3watch. http://x3watch.com/ It's free, but there's also a better version for $15 (I think it's worth it). This program is not a filter. It will simply email to 2 accountability partners what sites we have been surfing. This is a real breakthrough I think. I am using it right now, and it is really helping.
While this program is very good, I do have some problems with the ministry of xxxchurch.com. I think people should be cautious about it. I have a problem with it calling itself xxxchurch, the #1 christian inappropriate content site. I'm not comfortable with that. Is that a joke? Are they trying to joke, or shock? Also, in their ministry, they give bibles and shirts that say "jesus loves inappropriate content stars". I really am uncomfortable with that. Are they trying to joke again? It could be considered blasphemous. People of the world could mistake that for a nonchristian just trying to be shocking.
May the Lord be with you my brothers as you serve him, and overcome inappropriate contentography.

 

[kamikat]

Mod Hat On
This thread is moving from GT to Struggles with Sexuality.
kamikat, theology team moderator
Mod Hat Off

 

[Akathist]

Mod Hat On​

Struggles with Sexuality is NOT a debate forum. This thread was in General Theology and was moved to Recovery as the Original Poster was asking for support about a problem. He specifically did not want a debate.​

The debate that occured prior to the move may still show. But no further debate will be allowed. Recovery is a place were we offer advice and support for positive change and not a place to discuss if something is moral or immoral.​

Posts in Struggles with Sexuality must be approved. When you post here you will not immediately see the post. Staff individually approve posts before members can see them. If a post is any continuation of the debate about the morality of touching yourself they will NOT be approved and will not show up in the thread.

If you have questions about this please pm me rather than posting them.​

 

[dennis777]

If it isn't a sin, then why do so many people feel guilty and ashamed when they do it? Is it not a sin to disobey your conscience? Nobody feels guilty for helping an Elderly lady cross the street, do they? Do you touch? How many times a day?

I feel guilty when I fail to :

Sell all that I have and give the money to the poor.
and
Love my neighbor , and enemies, as myself.
and
Love God ALL that I should,
and
Believe with PERFECT faith,
and
Love with PERFECT love,
and
Obey all the Scriptures with PERFECT obedience.

*******
My point is: I don't worry too much about "little" things like masturbation. I worry about the verses that I think are HUGE.

dennis777

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

I know many would argue this topic, but i know it is wrong. My problem is, i've been single for a long time and have my concerns when it comes to dating, but i've been struggling with masturbation for a long time. For awhile i'd do it 3-5 times a day, i've cut down to a point where i only come across doing it once a week. I can't stand the feeling i get, the guilt after i do this act. inappropriate contentagraphy has been a problem for me in the beginning, but i quit that a long time ago, that just ruins the image of women. When it comes to masturbation, it's like my body craves for it. Living in the world today doesn't help either, when sex is everywhere.. and i mean everywhere. i've prayed for the holy spirit to give me strength, many times have i gone to prayer and everytime i give in, i feel terrible.. it's like torture. I would really appriciate it if any of you brothers and sisters could give me some advise.. this a sensitive topic.. and feel ashamed to ask my parents or others.

Have you spoken with your confessor? What does he advise?

God Bless.

 

[TheWakeUpCaller]

I feel guilty when I fail to :

Sell all that I have and give the money to the poor.
and
Love my neighbor , and enemies, as myself.
and
Love God ALL that I should,
and
Believe with PERFECT faith,
and
Love with PERFECT love,
and
Obey all the Scriptures with PERFECT obedience.

*******
My point is: I don't worry too much about "little" things like masturbation. I worry about the verses that I think are HUGE.

dennis777

It is the little things that count in a relationship, try not doing them and you will have no relationship. What logic is this? If it is a little sin, well that is ok, as long as I do not do a BIG sin.

 

[Johnnz]

I feel guilty when I fail to :

Sell all that I have and give the money to the poor.
and
Love my neighbor , and enemies, as myself.
and
Love God ALL that I should,
and
Believe with PERFECT faith,
and
Love with PERFECT love,
and
Obey all the Scriptures with PERFECT obedience.

*******
My point is: I don't worry too much about "little" things like masturbation. I worry about the verses that I think are HUGE.

dennis777

Dennis,

You are way to far idealistic. That will crucify you. All those things you listed are goals to set out to attain for the rest of your life, they are not something that we have attained to completely right now. Relax a bit more and enjot God rather than seeing yourself as a constant failure. Should a sex year old child beat up on themselves because they aren't like a mature adult? Then niether should you, a spiritual child who is still growing spiritually.

John
NZ

 

[jamie4418]

The Bible says if you walk in the spirit, you won't fulfil the lusts of the flesh. I think what it means here (someone correct me if I'm wrong) is that we need to keep practicing the fruits of the spirit - love, joy, peace, patiece, gentleness, goodness, faith, humility, self-control. But the most important one is love.

I urge you to keep coming on this website, see how other christians are struggling and PRAY FOR OTHERS. Also, keep submitting your body to God. It is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Avoid TV. This is a path to so much lust. Avoid movies. Avoid worldy music. It's always talking about sex.

Take it step by step. For now, just try DECREASING your masturbation as opposed to just eradicating it. That's not realistic. Also, keep asking the Lord for wisdom and guidance.

May the Lord be with you my brother.

 

[sweetstrawberry_801]

first of all dont feel guilty about this because jesus died for ur sins on the cross and rose again and he doesnt want u to feel guiltly about this. as long as u ask for fogivness and repent if u mess up and keep on trying trust in the lord he will help u and set u free from this. and know that u have victory in jesus because jesus had victory on the cross for us.
here are some sugesstions to help u stop.

1.Spend more time away from your computer. The 1 trigger for this kind of addiction cycles? Loneliness. The 1 solution to loneliness? Face-to-face interaction with other human beings. That means no computer. get out of ur room more and do some activities of interest such as a sport u like or are interested in.



2.get an accountability partner. That's a mature male in whom you can confide your problem. It should be someone you can contact on a moment's notice when you are weakening against temptation. Using something like x3watch will help keep you honest with your accountability partner.

3.Continue your walk with God and praying, worshiping and keep reading Scripture. also if u do not already go to church start going to chuch and speak to ur pastor or minster. if the church has a youth group for ur age group you could go to the youth group and speak to ur confide in ur youth leader, preferably a male leader.

I suggest u go to this site http://settingcaptivesfree.com/home/ and do this. its helps people with this kind of addiction. so many people on here have said it has helped them with there addictions. heres an example of how its helped someone.
http://www.christianforums.com/t3296...turbation.html

 

[J10ery]

I know many would argue this topic, but i know it is wrong. My problem is, i've been single for a long time and have my concerns when it comes to dating, but i've been struggling with masturbation for a long time. For awhile i'd do it 3-5 times a day, i've cut down to a point where i only come across doing it once a week. I can't stand the feeling i get, the guilt after i do this act. inappropriate contentagraphy has been a problem for me in the beginning, but i quit that a long time ago, that just ruins the image of women. When it comes to masturbation, it's like my body craves for it. Living in the world today doesn't help either, when sex is everywhere.. and i mean everywhere. i've prayed for the holy spirit to give me strength, many times have i gone to prayer and everytime i give in, i feel terrible.. it's like torture. I would really appriciate it if any of you brothers and sisters could give me some advise.. this a sensitive topic.. and feel ashamed to ask my parents or others.

My name is Jeff, I am 39 years old, from the time I got saved around the age of 21 and before, I struggled with shyness that was so severe that I could never get myself to go out with a women. As a teen until I was about 30 I had moderate to pretty severe acne, and the about age 22, I went bald. I struggled with masturbation starting from about 14, and continued back and forth, until 37, when I was attacked by something unseen. I struggled and cried out to God to help me for about 3 weeks, then suddenly God came and rescued me. Whatever is was scared me so bad that I made up my mine quick to get to church no matter what, because my fear of rejection, was over powered by the need for help. I started going to church, and I was so upset with myself for allowing shyness to keep me from going, because it was so wonderful and everyone was so nice, and God love was so awesome. I thought I was free from whatever happen to me, but after a month. something started attacking me again, even though I hadn't gone back to masturbation, but I did have a sexual desire, which I thought was normal. I was getting ready to go to church, and I had a strong sexual feeling, for no apparent reason, and it caused me to have a strong sexual desire, and while I was on my way to church I was attacked again by something even worse, and when I got to church I didn't know what to do, and I was afraid so I left. I went home and I struggled to control the sexual desire and feelings. I prayed and prayed and prayed for God to have mercy on me, and he started helping me again, and again I thought I was going to be OK and I went home, but then it happen again, and I cried out to God for help again. I was so tormented that I took some Zoloft from a friend and everything got worse and thought I was going to die, but by God's mercy I didn't. I kept praying and crying out for God to help and many people were praying for me also, then one day I had a seizure so severe that it broke about 10 bones in my body and I almost died again, but again by God's mercy, I didn't. I was bed fast for about 3 months with the most severe pain and torment you can imagine, but I kept crying out to God for mercy, and again he delivered me, and I felt I needed to get to church as fast as possible, and this lady suddenly came into my life and started praying for me, and trying to get me to church, but also old friends that were so called Christians started coming and wanted to hang out, but that distracted me from getting to church, and again I didn't get free and it happen again, it was just really hard to control every thought that came into my mind and believe there were many, but I kept seeking God, but I thought he wasn't there, so I started taking some different drugs from the doctor to deal with thoughts, stress and pain, but at the same time I think the drugs were giving me a since of well being and I was putting my guard down in my mind. Anyway, another old friend showed up and brought crack into my room, and because I was looking for relief I tried it and it seemed to make me feel better, but at the same time I was still crying out to God to help me, then after about 3 months I stopped crack and started going to christian counseling for about 6 months and I started having hope and faith, and some joy and I think God was helping me, because every time the counselor would pray I would feel the power of God hit me. I was just about to start going to church, when another old friend showed up. He told me he was straight and wanted to go to counseling and church, but the next day he comes to my door and bribed me to take him to get crack, and for some reason I agreed. I don't understand why I did, but I did. after he got it, I went over to his place and I tried it again, I kept reasoning that it wasn't much different than what I was getting from the doctor, but I was wrong, and something bad happen again and my body was poisoned. Then I realized from the Internet, it was witchcraft, or idolatry. It really frustrated me, because I was feeling better and didn't need anything. After that I was determined to get all people that were not close to God out of my life, because I finally realized the devil was using them against me to cause me to stumble. My friends that I had, I met by them coming to me, so I ended up taking what I could get, because of shyness I wouldn't never get out of my comfort zone to make good friends. I couldn't make wise choices in my life, with all that I was going through, over shyness, physical problems, and what happen to me, because of masturbation, but now I take Gods word so serious that I won't even eat lunch with people that call themselves Christian and don't obey God, now I am so determined to obey God I am watching out for anything that would cause me to give place to the devil, and I don't feel that shy anymore, because I am more concerned about obeying God. I realized that God is still wanting to help me, when I went to christian counseling and I am fighting with all the Integrity, prayers and faith I can muster up, but I know now it is in God's timing, not mine, and I can't let my feelings deceive me. Please pray for Gods mercy on me. Please pray that I will get free again, and heal my body. Please warn others of the dangers of masturbation! Thank you Lord Jesus for your mercy, I know when I get free that I will be able to call you Lord, because I am not going to go astray or fall for lies anymore. Father, in Jesus name I pray you will have mercy on me and deliver me from the fire, according to the book of Jude. Amen! I found that little book of Jude, after this happen to me. I can't believe I never saw that book, because I believe I would have realized what I was doing. I kept thinking I had an excuse, and God would understand, because of my problems with shyness and physical problems. Looking back I can see were God was trying to tell me what was going on, but I never caught on, or I would forget things. I knew it wasn't the perfect thing to be doing, but I didn't think it was as bad as it was, because I wasn't looking at inappropriate contento, calling prostitutes, or taking advantage of women. I kept feeling guilty, but I heard one time that we weren't suppose to feel guilt, because Jesus died for our sins, and I use to think lust was looking at women and having lust in your heart, which I didn't think I was doing, but looking back I realize when went to a store I kept looking at women thinking they were beautiful, so I guess I was. I don't really remember thinking about sex when I looked at them, I just thought they were beautiful and it was normal for a man to desire a women, or I would think I wasn't perfect, and that's why Jesus died for me. I kept struggling if it was real bad or what, since I had the problem I did. I was deceived by shyness and physical problems and fell into false doctrine. Sometimes it seemed like I knew it was bad, and I was just rebelling,, but again I thought we didn't half to be perfect. God only knows what my heart was doing. The bible says who can know the heart of man. I wish I would have studied more about it. Please warn people about the book of Jude, and that should clear up weather masturbation without lust is wrong. Please pray that by this warning that God will have mercy on me, and cover a multitude of my sins, and the sins of others, in Jesus name. Amen!
James 5:19-20 (Phi) My brothers, if any of you should wander away from the truth and another should turn him back on to the right path, then the latter may be sure that in turning a man back from his wandering course he has rescued a soul from death, and in so doing will "cover a multitude of sins."