Masturbation

[porcupine]

I did not write anyone was "saying" that.
I wrote people were acting like this topic is the worst of sins when there is no categorized list of sins making one worse over the other. Therefore "sin is sin" - and I will leave out the Blasphemy of the Holy spirit in this regard.
Before you misread me again - people means people in general, not just people on the CF. People in general.

Actually God does categorize sin in several ways. While it may be true that, without forgiveness, having even one sin would be enough to make us miss going to Heaven, that does not mean all sins are the same -- even to God. He describes some as abominations, and others He does not. He gave some the death penalty, others He gave much lesser penalties. The kinds of sins listed in 1 Corintians 6 for which a person who is a brother but unrepentant is disfellowshipped, are much different than a lot of lesser sins.

I realize it is a common saying that isn is sin, but you would not feel the same about someone who was just a little impateient withy you and someone who molested your 2-year-old daughter. Nor would you expect God to treat them the same at judgment. (There are, after all, different "glories" in Heaven AND different levels of Hell.)

 

[Lucubratus]

Actually God does categorize sin in several ways. While it may be true that, without forgiveness, having even one sin would be enough to make us miss going to Heaven, that does not mean all sins are the same -- even to God. He describes some as abominations, and others He does not. He gave some the death penalty, others He gave much lesser penalties. The kinds of sins listed in 1 Corintians 6 for which a person who is a brother but unrepentant is disfellowshipped, are much different than a lot of lesser sins.

I realize it is a common saying that isn is sin, but you would not feel the same about someone who was just a little impateient withy you and someone who molested your 2-year-old daughter. Nor would you expect God to treat them the same at judgment. (There are, after all, different "glories" in Heaven AND different levels of Hell.)

you know I think you're one of the first people I've read on this forum who mentions various "degrees" of sin and points it out logically in the bible. Thanks for that Since as it pertains to this OP and some other places where a similar topic is discussed; people viewed it as "really really really bad" by comparison to other things that to me; are just flat out worse and inflict more harm on another person instead of the 'self-harm' masturbation does.

 

[Lucubratus]

p.s.

Happy Birthday

 

[porcupine]

you know I think you're one of the first people I've read on this forum who mentions various "degrees" of sin and points it out logically in the bible. Thanks for that Since as it pertains to this OP and some other places where a similar topic is discussed; people viewed it as "really really really bad" by comparison to other things that to me; are just flat out worse and inflict more harm on another person instead of the 'self-harm' masturbation does.

The Bible lists sexual sins as being particularly high on the list. I think the reason is that sex is a very strong drive that has only one good outlet and many bad outlets. Several times in the NT we are warned to "FLEE fornication." I don't see "flee theft" or "flee laziness." Masturbation is one form of fornication. It does make it easier to slip into other forms if you start there. You become accustomed to (and sometimes start thinkig you have a RIGHT to) sexcual gratification or release. Major scientific studies show that people involved in things like inappropriate content not only habituate, but escalate the behavior. That doesn't mean that every inappropriate content user becomes a rapist, but they do begin to think some of what they see in inappropriate content as normal -- even when it is way beyond the experience of most people. The same principles apply to masturbation. It becomes habitual and part of the norm. I believe it also reduces the special thing that can happen on a wedding night when both people are TOTAL virgins. There is nothing like the freedom in sex that comes with people who have never been involved in what they know in their hearts is illicit, suddenly having all that in a way that they know is TOTALLY GOOD in the sight of both God and man. What could be more free and uninhibited than that. Those of us who spoiled that by skulking around having various kinds of sex we knew deep down was wrong will never know that joy. I wish I had been wiser in my youth not to waste myself on myself or some passing woman.

Mastubation does harm you, but it also harms you future spouse. In marriage your body (Scripture says) BELONGS TO YOUR SPOUSE. You owe ALL your sexuality to her (or him). Save it for your spouse. Love them even before you know to whom God will bring you. Before marriage, you are bought with a price and your body belongs to the Lord. Scripture plainly says that the body is made for the Lord NOT FOR FORNICATION. If you have already messed up, STOP and recommit your BODY (as well as soul and spirit) to Jesus Christ AND to the spouse He will give you.

Thanks for the b-day greeting.

 

[CM]

How does masturbating hurt you any more then (Sorry I cant remember the proper name for this.) Wet dreams?

Hint: It doesn't.

 

[porcupine]

How does masturbating hurt you any more then (Sorry I cant remember the proper name for this.) Wet dreams?

Hint: It doesn't.

It does. One is deliberate, the other is accidental.

 

[invisible trousers]

I'm a little confused by your dishonesty, since it's very clear that masturbation cannot be a type of fornication.

In my eyes it seems that every single argument against masturbation hinges on twisting definitions, ignoring context, and things like that. I find it hard to see that these views can be Godly and correct when so much dishonesty is used to create them.

 

[Impossible]

It does. One is deliberate, the other is accidental.

Hardly. Are you trying to tell me that you have no clue whats going to happen when you do not touch for a long period of time?

Besides, normal masturbation greatly reduces the chances of having testicular cancer. Im not going to take my chances.

 

[porcupine]

I'm a little confused by your dishonesty, since it's very clear that masturbation cannot be a type of fornication.

In my eyes it seems that every single argument against masturbation hinges on twisting definitions, ignoring context, and things like that. I find it hard to see that these views can be Godly and correct when so much dishonesty is used to create them.

I recall you said that fornication requires two, but you gave no proof that this is true. However, the term used in Scripture is a general term for illicit sexual activity. Historically since the early Christian writings, this has been the understanding of that word, as well. While they don't have ultimate authority like the Scripture, we get a glimpse of how those who first heard Paul's admonition, "Flee fornication," understood it. There is nothing in the word that requires two people, nor have you denonstrated that it dos. You have simply made a bald assertion. As I noted before, Jesus tells us that even the very specific sin of adultery can be committed alone. So I'm not being dishonest, here.

 

[porcupine]

Hardly. Are you trying to tell me that you have no clue whats going to happen when you do not touch for a long period of time?

I have gone long periods without sex because I was travelling and my wife was not able to come with me. I did not have "nocturnal emissions" then, but that is hardly the point. The wet dream is not something you do voluntarily. Nor will masturbation always stop them. (I still remember my teen years.)

Besides, normal masturbation greatly reduces the chances of having testicular cancer. Im not going to take my chances.

That is pure bull. Prove that statement with scientific studies. Back in the old days, when the tide was against mastubation, people used to make up phony "health facts" about the problems you would have if you DID touch. Now the lies are going the other way. Shizzle tried to make that claim earlier in the thread -- though he was less specific about the disease -- and he backed down. Deliver the proof or retract.

 

[Lucubratus]

That is pure bull. Prove that statement with scientific studies. Back in the old days, when the tide was against mastubation, people used to make up phony "health facts" about the problems you would have if you DID touch. Now the lies are going the other way. Shizzle tried to make that claim earlier in the thread -- though he was less specific about the disease -- and he backed down. Deliver the proof or retract.

I agree there. Actually in regards to that it only says *may reduce* - does not say it WILL.

The same kind of analysis in regards to this topic also says Garlic *may reduce* do the same thing.

 

[armyman_83]

That is pure bull. Prove that statement with scientific studies. Back in the old days, when the tide was against mastubation, people used to make up phony "health facts" about the problems you would have if you DID touch. Now the lies are going the other way. Shizzle tried to make that claim earlier in the thread -- though he was less specific about the disease -- and he backed down. Deliver the proof or retract.

For real, Christians need to face it, mansterbation is a sin. Besides if you can manstubate with out lusting, wow what kind of a freak are u? Why even mansterbate if you don't lust while you do it?
Face it, mansterbation+ human brain=sin

 

[invisible trousers]

I recall you said that fornication requires two, but you gave no proof that this is true.

I am absolutely shocked and amazed you would claim I said something which I didn't. Absolutely shocked I tell you.

There is nothing in the word that requires two people, nor have you denonstrated that it dos. You have simply made a bald assertion. As I noted before, Jesus tells us that even the very specific sin of adultery can be committed alone. So I'm not being dishonest, here.

Once again I am shocked.

Talk about dishonesty, eh?

I wasn't aware "bald assertions" can come from things like "dictionary definitions" so I'll show you where I kind of got my thinking...

for·ni·ca·tion (fôr'nĭ-kā'shən)
n.

Sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to each other.

...

The noun fornication has 2 meanings:

Meaning #1: voluntary sexual intercourse between persons not married to each other

Meaning #2: extramarital sex that willfully and maliciously interferes with marriage relations
Synonyms: adultery, criminal conversation

You know, things like that.

If fornication is possible by masturbating, why doesn't the Bible have any examples of fornication involving a single person and nothing else? Or are we back to twisting around definitions again?

For real, Christians need to face it, mansterbation is a sin. Besides if you can manstubate with out lusting, wow what kind of a freak are u? Why even mansterbate if you don't lust while you do it?
Face it, mansterbation+ human brain=sin

You as well as nobody else has shown this to be true. I don't think it's smart to claim something is a sin when you have no evidence to show that it is.

 

[LukeBritt]

Masturbation = the stroking of genitals for sexual pleasure, usually to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]
This is the dictionary's definition. Just by this definition we can see that masturbation is sex, by yourself. If you do not touch for a given time, you will have what's called 'nocturnal [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]'. This is possible to occur without sexual fantasies.
As to the wife concept (I'm married), masturbation, in my opinion should not be used because of the imagery of sexual relations between husband and wife and the unity of believers in Christ. Our intimacy is not fulfilled by ourselves, but fulfilled in our Groom. Therefore, masturbation is a slap in the face of God and your spouse.

Luke

P.S. Responses welcome.

 

[armyman_83]

Hear, hear!!

 

[invisible trousers]

not all sex results in [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], and not all [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] comes from sex.

 

[LukeBritt]

Not sure what your point is. Kind of sounds like a Chinese proverb or something.

 

[invisible trousers]

you said that masturbation results in [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] which means it's sex. this is not true.

 

[LukeBritt]

I quoted Webster's Dictionary. I assume the dictionary is more trustworthy than what you think.
The definition includes that it is for sexual pleasure, i.e. sex. Intercourse = sexual pleasure. Oral Sex = sexual pleasure. Masturbation = sexual pleasure.

 

[Lucubratus]

Masturbation = the stroking of genitals for sexual pleasure, usually to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]
This is the dictionary's definition. Just by this definition we can see that masturbation is sex, by yourself. If you do not touch for a given time, you will have what's called 'nocturnal [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]'. This is possible to occur without sexual fantasies.
As to the wife concept (I'm married), masturbation, in my opinion should not be used because of the imagery of sexual relations between husband and wife and the unity of believers in Christ. Our intimacy is not fulfilled by ourselves, but fulfilled in our Groom. Therefore, masturbation is a slap in the face of God and your spouse.

Luke

P.S. Responses welcome.

Not all of what I'm writing is addressed soley to you, Luke - but for people on the over all thread, k?

Note: The use of "You" is nobody in particular.


*begins confession*
I'm not going to beat around the bush. I'm honest in my sins at least and I don't want to add being a hyprocrite to the list. I think it is having sex with yourself, lustful thoughts to begin it or end it, regardless. I have had [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] without entertaining lustful thoughts at times, it's a little easier for women in that regard; but there are other times where the sin of thought was there. But then I've had sins of thought while riding the bus and thinking of something totally irrevelant from sex and never physically 'completed the act', so where does that leave me?
I still sinned.
What a weird thread this is.
Vicious circles abound.


I don't rightly recall having nocturnal emissions - I'm a girl. I rarely even have dreams like that to begin with, but it builds up. It builds up hormonally and sometimes emotionally - liken to PMS and sometimes praying doesn't work. Please don't say "if only you did this or that" - it's moot, because I'm imperfect and I err.

Sometimes I don't feel guilty and sometimes I do. Sometimes I cave. My libido isn't high to begin with so I try not to torture myself when I do cave. Nobody should torture themselves on anything.
People can quote as much scriptures or rationales as they want to but it doesn't change the fact that people deal with it as best they can and in accordance to their maturity as a Christian and other people should realize that and be a bit more understanding that it's not always something that is perpetually clouding a person's mind!

That is just the gut honest truth from my viewpoint. If someone was really and truly having a problem with this (in his or her own mind) then they will get the help if they want it. So don't urge or pray for somebody to abstain when you know they're not ready to, it's rather condescending and I'm certain there are elements of sin involved in that- some are still drinking the milk and not prepared for the meat. Christ knows that better than any of you. (and me)


I'm not yet prepared to head down that road of total abstinence. Frankly, I have other issues that are worse for me spiritually and mentally on earth that I have to deal with- but I also take some comfort in knowing I'm doing other things for Christ's sake that have more important bearings on my thoughts on a daily and hourly basis than masturbation.

*end confession*


can People - agree to disagree or agree en masse for those of similar minds and move on..? I haven't seen anything come out of it that someone can benefit from and put forth to their daily life.
Has it even helped the OP in any way?
Has anyone gotten something out of it in a positive light? Has it pushed somebody away from Christ, or brought them closer since the topic's been posted? Going by some of the general tones in here, it looks more like people are getting pushed away to me, no offense.
It's all been arguing for argument's sake and my bad for partaking in it.
I'm not posting on this topic anymore so if anybody has anything they are just dying to say in reply to me they can PM it.

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