Masturbation (right or wrong?)

[Glorianna]

well you will be So you are going to definately need to find a resolution to this issue one way or another if it affects you greatly. You needa have a talk about that It won't resolve itself no matter how much you wish it away, and trust me I know because I like to try and wish these things away too

You don;t want something like this creeping up later in your marriage and causing issues because you burried your feelings about it I tend to burry my thoughts/feelings on things that really affect me too, or I have in the past, its been nothing but trouble for me. It will fester until it comes out one day and causes a big ol argument ><

Oh honey, you don't need to worry. My fiance and I have talked about this for a while now. Thanks for the advice though. We're always open and honest with each other about things because it's important to us to have good communication.

If he does it now, he is not just going to stop once you two are married Just because you are "satisfying him" doesn't mean he won't....it is much more psychological than that. It is something a man has to overcome, and let the Lord fight the battle.

Pre-marital counsleing about this would be very helpful.

Thanks; we're definitely going to go through premarital counseling. We've talked about it since we got engaged in July. I really hope and pray he's able to stop!

 

[FaithfulServant]

Thanks; we're definitely going to go through premarital counseling. We've talked about it since we got engaged in July. I really hope and pray he's able to stop!

I'm glad y'all are seeking counseling. I just wanted to add that he has to WANT to stop, if he only wants to stop to make you happy, he's probably gonna fail. He needs to be overcoming this to give glory to God and God alone. Just make sure he's not doing it to just calm your fears.

Take care

Steffani

 

[Mr.Cheese]

With the gift of hindsight I believe that the issue is entirely overrated. I don't think it's a big deal. I expended entirely too much energy worrying about it when I was younger.

Now...messing around...that's tricky. I will offer my default answer of "proceed with caution."
Knowing someone in that manner tends to create emotional bonds and knots that can become very confusing. Once you light that fire there is no putting it out.
I believe these emotional connections belong within the committment of marriage.
By saying so I do not mean to imply that I am a puritan regarding this subject. I'll end with just what I have written here.

 

[Mr.Cheese]

Now in a marriage, I believe that servicing yourself is not ok. I forgot hwich scripture it is but it's something like, "For the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does, likewise the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does."
You don't belong to yourself anymore. As I said in another thread, it's time to break up with the hand. You've got someone to take care of that for you now. Also it is quite enjoyable to *ahem* service the other person.

 

[Glorianna]

I'm glad y'all are seeking counseling. I just wanted to add that he has to WANT to stop, if he only wants to stop to make you happy, he's probably gonna fail. He needs to be overcoming this to give glory to God and God alone. Just make sure he's not doing it to just calm your fears.

Oh trust me, I know! I don't think he'll ever truly want to change because he doesn't believe it's wrong.

Thanks for your input Mr. Cheese.

 

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

Because I would think that if masturbation is wrong then it is wrong across the board. But, that is just my humble opinion.

Hum Im going to have to dissagree with what you said there. Look at sex- you cant just say sex is wrong- all across the board. Because its not. There is a time and a place to have sex, the marriage bed. Between a man and a woman who are married.
Masturbation is one of those gray area's in the bible- it dosent really say a whole lot about it- or any really for that matter. The bible is very clear about keeping away from evil, and our minds and hearts pure. When it comes right down to it, sex was created for man and woman, for eachother, a deep, strong bond- pleasure and to create life. Masturbation is a selfish act. And Im not sure about you, but I dont know how one could be aroused, and touch at the thoughts of anything that isnt impure (think about it- can you be aroused, and touch while you are concentrating on your math homework? Doubt it) Even before you are married, having impure thoughts about your s/o is still considered a sin. YOU ARE NOT MARRIED TO THAT PERSON. And until you are married to taht person, any lustful or impure thought about that peson, whether you like it or not, is a sin.

Now do I think masturbation within marriage is wrong? Yes and no. Let me explain. If you are substituting masurbation for sex, meaning, if you are masturbating instead of having sex with your husband/wife, then yes its a sin, and it is depriving your husband/wife of the intimacy that God intends through Sex. So then what about when your wife is on her period? Or pregnate, or just not feeling well.... I still think you should restrain yourself from masturbation- I think its important for people to practice self control even when they are married.

Now- with your husband/wife... is it wrong? I dont think so. I dont see anything wrong with manually stimulating your husband/wife within the marrige bed together. But that would be a decision made between the couple. What goes for one couple, may not be the same for another couple. As far as I am concerned, anything respectable goes between a husband or wife (excluding bringing in another person, or watching porn etc) as long as they both agree, and no one is getting hurt.

Now to adress something in the OP- It sounded like you said something about manually masturbating someone, but not having sex. I think its very important that you understand that all sexyal activity is considered a sin outside of marriage. If you are awakening desires that should not be awaken before you are married, Im sorry to say but that would be considered lustin... which is a sin.

Im sorry this kinda sounds like a everything you do is sinful type of post, but its the truth. But it dosent mean that we (including myself) dont struggle with these things. Its just a matter of self control, and not allowing yourself to be in that sort of situation.

 

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

I have never had the desire to touch. My fiance and a lot of other people are amazed by that but I've just never really cared. It's never been a big deal to me.

You are not alone here, I am the same way- dont get me wrong, been there done that, but it did nothing for me. I guess for me its going to be about the strong bond with my husband... because yeah, I never really cared either

 

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

Now in a marriage, I believe that servicing yourself is not ok. I forgot hwich scripture it is but it's something like, "For the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does, likewise the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does."
You don't belong to yourself anymore. As I said in another thread, it's time to break up with the hand. You've got someone to take care of that for you now. Also it is quite enjoyable to *ahem* service the other person.

Great post Cheese!!!

 

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

If you want to read more on it check this website out:
http://themarriagebed.com/whatisokay.shtml

There is a section on Masturbation.

 

[Glorianna]

You are not alone here, I am the same way- dont get me wrong, been there done that, but it did nothing for me. I guess for me its going to be about the strong bond with my husband... because yeah, I never really cared either

I'm so glad I'm not alone.

I just had a thought. God said that it is not good for man to be alone. Does this have any implications here?

 

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

I'm so glad I'm not alone.

I just had a thought. God said that it is not good for man to be alone. Does this have any implications here?

I definetly think so- God created Eve because it was not good for Adam to be alone. He needed someone to have fellowship and commune with. At the same time, they were created for eachother to satisfy their human desires (ahem sex )
Paul also talkes... somewheres, one of the epistles maybe... uh I donno, anyways about how its better to be married if you cannot control your fleshly desires-

 

[bliz]

I definetly think so- God created Eve because it was not good for Adam to be alone. He needed someone to have fellowship and commune with. At the same time, they were created for eachother to satisfy their human desires (ahem sex )
Paul also talkes... somewheres, one of the epistles maybe... uh I donno, anyways about how its better to be married if you cannot control your fleshly desires-

I must disagree with why Eve was created. The Bible says that God observed that it was not good for man to be alone. Not good for whom? You are assuming Adam... as most people do. But for whom did God create the world in the first place? For Himself. The universe was not created for Adams benefit. God's standard of what is good or not good is based on what is good or not good for God, not man. Adam alone was not sufficent to reflect the image of God. Eve was created for the same reason Adam was - to be an image of God and to reflect Him and praise Him.

When we think that woman was created to serve man, we end up with a very distorted idea of what the relationships between men and women and God and women should be.

 

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

I must disagree with why Eve was created. The Bible says that God observed that it was not good for man to be alone. Not good for whom? You are assuming Adam... as most people do. But for whom did God create the world in the first place? For Himself. The universe was not created for Adams benefit. God's standard of what is good or not good is based on what is good or not good for God, not man. Adam alone was not sufficent to reflect the image of God. Eve was created for the same reason Adam was - to be an image of God and to reflect Him and praise Him.

When we think that woman was created to serve man, we end up with a very distorted idea of what the relationships between men and women and God and women should be.

I agree with you, and I think my post came out wrong, but I am pretty sure the Bible says that God created Eve because it was not good for man to be alone. (Gen 2:18-it says.. make a helper suitable for him)
I realize that its not about Adam and His benefit... but you cannot deny that Eve was also made as a helper for Adam. Im not saying to be Adams slave or worker girl, but for communion and help. Just as we help men today, and men help us.
I never once in my post said anything about Eve serving Man.

 

[Glorianna]

I agree with you, and I think my post came out wrong, but I am pretty sure the Bible says that God created Eve because it was not good for man to be alone. (Gen 2:18-it says.. make a helper suitable for him)
I realize that its not about Adam and His benefit... but you cannot deny that Eve was also made as a helper for Adam. Im not saying to be Adams slave or worker girl, but for communion and help. Just as we help men today, and men help us.
I never once in my post said anything about Eve serving Man.

I agree with you SOTF. It was both for God's glory and for man that woman was created.

 

[Mr.Cheese]

it was not good for man to be alone. Not good for whom?

Curious. The questions seems kind of redundant given the previous statement. The statement itself answers the question rather unambiguously. Every translation I have includes the definite article "the" before man, indicating that it was specifically "not good for the man to be alone." There is only one man in the narrative. The whole passage indicates that woman was created to be a companion, a helpmeet for man.
In fact, in the previous creation account, Gen. 1:27, it says "Male and female he created them."
The second account is focused on the creation of humankind specifically. The second part of 2:18 says, "I will make a helper suitable for him." Nowhere is there any mention of the necesssity of God's image needing any kind of completion in creation by means of woman. The animals didn't prove to be a "helper suitable for man." Woman is entirely God's grace. Not created to be man's servant, but a counterpart, a companion. Granted on the practical side of things woman had to be introduced into the narrative in order to get the story moving. It's hard to be fruitful and multiply when there are no females around. But Genesis two is not interested in presenting woman as such an object. Woman is a gift from God simply because God wanted man, specifically Adam, to have a suitable companion. 2:20 "But for Adam no suitable helper was found."

 

[Glorianna]

Nowhere is there any mention of the necesssity of God's image needing any kind of completion in creation by means of woman.

I laughed out loud when I read this. God does NOT need completing! He has always been complete!

Woman is entirely God's grace.

Wow, I really like thinking of it like that. And I also like the fact that you call woman a gift from God.

 

[Sign Of The Fish Burger]

Curious. The questions seems kind of redundant given the previous statement. The statement itself answers the question rather unambiguously. Every translation I have includes the definite article "the" before man, indicating that it was specifically "not good for the man to be alone." There is only one man in the narrative. The whole passage indicates that woman was created to be a companion, a helpmeet for man.
In fact, in the previous creation account, Gen. 1:27, it says "Male and female he created them."
The second account is focused on the creation of humankind specifically. The second part of 2:18 says, "I will make a helper suitable for him." Nowhere is there any mention of the necesssity of God's image needing any kind of completion in creation by means of woman. The animals didn't prove to be a "helper suitable for man." Woman is entirely God's grace. Not created to be man's servant, but a counterpart, a companion. Granted on the practical side of things woman had to be introduced into the narrative in order to get the story moving. It's hard to be fruitful and multiply when there are no females around. But Genesis two is not interested in presenting woman as such an object. Woman is a gift from God simply because God wanted man, specifically Adam, to have a suitable companion. 2:20 "But for Adam no suitable helper was found."

I have to spread the love before repping you again.
But thanks! Great post

 

[Glorianna]

I definitely agree with you there SOTF! Good post Mr. Cheese!

 

[bliz]

Curious. The questions seems kind of redundant given the previous statement. The statement itself answers the question rather unambiguously. Every translation I have includes the definite article "the" before man, indicating that it was specifically "not good for the man to be alone." There is only one man in the narrative. The whole passage indicates that woman was created to be a companion, a helpmeet for man.
In fact, in the previous creation account, Gen. 1:27, it says "Male and female he created them."

Most translations say "the man" but not all do, but it does not change the meaning. The statement "It is not good for the man to be alone." does not indicate for whom it is not good. You assume that it is not good for the man. But there's a pattern here in the creation story:

Genesis 1: 9 "And God saw that it was good."
Genesis 1:18 "And God saw that it was good."
Genesis 1:24 "And God saw that it was good."
Genesis 1:31 "God saw all that He had made, and it was very good."

Clearly in the first 3 examples God is not saying "It is good for the man." or "It is good for the land." or "It is good for the birds." So, for whom was it good? Obviously, God. God made the universe for Himself. After the creation of Eve, God says that it was all "very good". Therefore, when, in the second account God looks at man alone and says "It is not good for the man to be alone." it falls perfectly in the pattern. It was not good for God that man would be alone.

The second account is focused on the creation of humankind specifically. The second part of 2:18 says, "I will make a helper suitable for him." Nowhere is there any mention of the necesssity of God's image needing any kind of completion in creation by means of woman. The animals didn't prove to be a "helper suitable for man." Woman is entirely God's grace. Not created to be man's servant, but a counterpart, a companion. Granted on the practical side of things woman had to be introduced into the narrative in order to get the story moving. It's hard to be fruitful and multiply when there are no females around. But Genesis two is not interested in presenting woman as such an object. Woman is a gift from God simply because God wanted man, specifically Adam, to have a suitable companion. 2:20 "But for Adam no suitable helper was found."

First, the command to be fruitful and multiply was not given until Eve was created so Adam was not required to multiply until after Eve came along.

Second, a similiar question to my first one arises here. Is Adam in need of a helper to accomplish his goals, or is Adam in need of a helper to accomplish God's goals? You assume that woman is created to accomplish Adam's goals. I disagree. Woman was created to accomplish God's goals.

Further, the word for "helper" is ezor in the Hebrew. The word is most frequently used in scripture in Psalms where the Psalmist(s?) say(s) in 33:20: "We wait in hope for the Lord: He is out help and our shield." Is God a counterpart or companion? I find those terms inappropriate when used to describe God.

You made a statement that I think explains your perspective well. You said:

It's hard to be fruitful and multiply when there are no females around.

That's not true. I can be very fruitful and multiply with no females around. Your statement is true for you, but it is not true for over half of the human population. You have looked at the passage as a male and understood the passage as a male. Your understanding of the creation story makes man central to the creation story. That is simply wrong.

The universe was created by God, for God and the only measure of what is and isn't good is God and what is good or not good for God.

 

[Glorianna]

Umm... how can you multiply when there are no women around? Isn't that impossible?

Something I've been thinking about. God probably created Eve both for Himself and for Adam. But I have a hard time thinking that Adam didn't have sexual thoughts before Eve came along. God created us to be sexual beings. He didn't CHANGE Adam into a sexual being. Could Adam have been masturbating and since God didn't want him to, He created Eve? Just a thought.