mastabating

JCMJ friend · Jul 9, 2011

But what if mastabating wasnt a sin because when you doing it,your thinking of someone that you truely love,that was not married they are either single divorced or widow so have no marital ties,but you cant be with them because they are either dead or other circumstances you cant be with them?and you do so because you miss them and want to be close tothem.For example maybe a boyfriend of the past that died or someone else you cant be with or someone you heard of that you really love,just an example,im just saying is it always black or white,or does it have grey areas too?

Jim2011 · Jul 9, 2011

There are times I really wish I knew the answer to that, and then thare are times I really DONT want to know the answer.
I remember sometime back someone posted a question, "Is everything a sin" <Sigh> the topic makes me wonder.
If I daydream about what it could be like to live with someone I really love, and who really loves me back, is that a sin?
If I am daydreaming about two people who love each other, is it a sin?
Perhaps I a afraid to listen to God's answer, for fear of his response.

spiritman1 · Jul 9, 2011

iambren said:
Spiritman1, you said:

"you are not a real disciple, and this path will eventually lead you to destruction, watch out for those who practice lawlessness and every lewd behavior is accepted as normal. The bible mention's these folks quite frequently, they will tell you what your itching ears want to hear, but check what they say against sound biblical teaching"

To demean AND question my being a disciple is over the top. You have been reported.

OH NO! Sir you are blind guide, and the truth is not in you, you can report that too! ha ha ha I'm not the least bit worried about any judgement received here, but you should be very worried about the judgement that your headed for. your an unbiblical Christian, you follow your own wisdom and not the word of God, if I believed in luck I'd wish you some, return to your senses and follow Jesus who said "be holy because I am holy" you can't tell people commiting solo sexual acts are not sinful its just really poor spiritual discernment between good and evil

Blueforest · Jul 9, 2011

spiritman1 said:
OH NO! Sir you are blind guide, and the truth is not in you, you can report that too! ha ha ha I'm not the least bit worried about any judgement received here, but you should be very worried about the judgement that your headed for. your an unbiblical Christian, you follow your own wisdom and not the word of God, if I believed in luck I'd wish you some, return to your senses and follow Jesus who said "be holy because I am holy" you can't tell people commiting solo sexual acts are not sinful its just really poor spiritual discernment between good and evil

I swear, if all Christians were like this, I would surely not be one.

spiritman1 · Jul 9, 2011

Blueforest said:
I swear, if all Christians were like this, I would surely not be one.

Mathew 5:36-37 "Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. "But let your yes be yes and your no be no; anything beyond this comes from the evil one"...................honestly the term Christian is so broad and wide these days a homosexual buddist monk, who practices black magic when he's not reading tarrot cards, convicted of being a serial axe murdering psychopath, declares Jesus is his friend (void any repentance)and WALAA! we have another christian in the ranks

SoldierOfSoul · Jul 9, 2011

Well, this thread seems to be going good...

Blueforest · Jul 10, 2011

spiritman1 said:
Mathew 5:36-37 "Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. "But let your yes be yes and your no be no; anything beyond this comes from the evil one"...................honestly the term Christian is so broad and wide these days a homosexual buddist monk, who practices black magic when he's not reading tarrot cards, convicted of being a serial axe murdering psychopath, declares Jesus is his friend (void any repentance)and WALAA! we have another christian in the ranks

Mmm-hmm, and this has to do with me how, dear friend?

Are you accusing me of being gay, a buddhist monk, who practices black magick, using Tarot cards and having been convicted of serial killing with an axe, and being a psychopath?

Or, are you saying God cannot (or will not) forgive someone who has done those things? Is that not, then, a gospel of works and self-righteousness? You are no better than they are. Not. One. Bit.

Jim2011 · Jul 10, 2011

I;m sorry,
Could we take this back to the origional question please?

What I belive JCMJ was asking is, If you can not be with the one you love, can you dream that you are?

If people touch for stress relief with no daydreams about sex, is that less of a sin?

The sex drive seems to be such a major drive in peoples lives...and our society does not really approve of marrage at 13...Will God forgive the adelosents who are sexually frustrated? And how about the rest of us?
If we marry someone, just to have sex, and then found ourselves in a loveless relationship...I feel that is even sadder than being single. Can God forgive me? us? for wanting sexual release?
Sorry, it got a bit wordy didn't it. While I have sort of asked God for his...advise? oppinion? about touching yourself and daydreams, I am not sure I really want to listen for his answer. I guess I am afraid he will say dont do it. And then I wonder if I am making NOT masterbating a larger idol than masterbatiing was. Now its really getting wordy, insnt it. Sorry people, no advise, just lots more questions for discussion.

JCMJ friend · Jul 10, 2011

spiritman1 said:
Mathew 5:36-37 "Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. "But let your yes be yes and your no be no; anything beyond this comes from the evil one"...................honestly the term Christian is so broad and wide these days a homosexual buddist monk, who practices black magic when he's not reading tarrot cards, convicted of being a serial axe murdering psychopath, declares Jesus is his friend (void any repentance)and WALAA! we have another christian in the ranks

im sorry but if you go around condeming other people i cannot find your advise helpful,the ones you condem are the ones who in love are trying to help me with answers.and im grateful to them for their answer.

brinny · Jul 10, 2011

Jim2011 said:
I;m sorry,
Could we take this back to the origional question please?

What I belive JCMJ was asking is, If you can not be with the one you love, can you dream that you are?

If people touch for stress relief with no daydreams about sex, is that less of a sin?

The sex drive seems to be such a major drive in peoples lives...and our society does not really approve of marrage at 13...Will God forgive the adelosents who are sexually frustrated? And how about the rest of us?
If we marry someone, just to have sex, and then found ourselves in a loveless relationship...I feel that is even sadder than being single. Can God forgive me? us? for wanting sexual release?
Sorry, it got a bit wordy didn't it. While I have sort of asked God for his...advise? oppinion? about touching yourself and daydreams, I am not sure I really want to listen for his answer. I guess I am afraid he will say dont do it. And then I wonder if I am making NOT masterbating a larger idol than masterbatiing was. Now its really getting wordy, insnt it. Sorry people, no advise, just lots more questions for discussion.

Well now God has been quite clear. We are to love the Lord God with all of our hearts, minds, souls, and strength. It has also been written that if we love ANYTHING more than God, than THAT is a sin. By all means, if you can honor praise and worship God while doing so, and say "Lord i praise, honor, and worship You as I do this", then by all means, touch to yer heart's content.

Peripatetic · Jul 10, 2011

Since the Bible is silent on masturbation itself, I believe that it falls into the Romans 14 category of "disputable matters". Paul provides several examples (eating meat, drinking wine, on which day to observe the Sabbath, etc.) but there are others. Drinking alcohol is a good example... for some, it is a small pleasure in life that need not become sinful. For others, it is a downward spiral full of sin. But people on one side of the argument will always condemn the other. Jesus even makes note of this in Matthew 11:

18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners.”

I see masturbation falling into a similar category. For some people, masturbation may be a lustful, selfish excess or a foray into other sexual deviance. For others, it may be a healthy part of life that helps to prevent sexual deviance that can grow out of over-repression. There are a LOT of circumstances that affect this equation. I'm sure we'd all agree that a husband who uses porn every day and avoids his wife is very different from a husband stationed overseas in the military who needs to relieve tension sometimes.

Make no mistake: the devil wants us to condemn each other about this and other sexual matters... and he probably likes how this thread has taken a turn in that direction.

GloryBe! · Jul 10, 2011

Peripatetic said:
Since the Bible is silent on masturbation itself, I believe that it falls into the Romans 14 category of "disputable matters". Paul provides several examples (eating meat, drinking wine, on which day to observe the Sabbath, etc.) but there are others. Drinking alcohol is a good example... for some, it is a small pleasure in life that need not become sinful. For others, it is a downward spiral full of sin. But people on one side of the argument will always condemn the other. Jesus even makes note of this in Matthew 11:

I see masturbation falling into a similar category. For some people, masturbation may be a lustful, selfish excess or a foray into other sexual deviance. For others, it may be a healthy part of life that helps to prevent sexual deviance that can grow out of over-repression. There are a LOT of circumstances that affect this equation. I'm sure we'd all agree that a husband who uses porn every day and avoids his wife is very different from a husband stationed overseas in the military who needs to relieve tension sometimes.

Make no mistake: the devil wants us to condemn each other about this and other sexual matters... and he probably likes how this thread has taken a turn in that direction.

I agree with this statement.
And, yes, it is easily possible for one to do this act without lusting after another. If someone disagrees, then have you tried it? Or is your lusting of mental images or porn your habit, while you try to cover up the real sin with the pretense of simple masturbation? (this is a blanket question, not pointing to anyone in particular)
Being single and staying a virgin til marriage is hard, but doable. Just as masturbating is possible without lust. In marriage, it should be done together, for you are now one flesh, and belong to the other. The marriage bed is undefiled.

P.s.I, for one, was very insulted by the previous statement someone made that someone else "needs a wife!"

brinny · Jul 10, 2011

Surely, if maturbating is not a sin, Jesus surely participated in it, all the while maintaining His perfect walk with God, and preserving His status as the "spotless Lamb of God" to die for our sins. And surely God is sitting right there watching, as is all of heaven. For God is with us ALWAYS. He sees EVERYTHING, does He not? And DURING masturbation, we are praying, are we not? For it is written for us to "pray without ceasing". Surely then, Paul, who never married participated in masturbation, did he not? After all, it's a pure mind that engages in it, is it not?

What worship music is best while masturbating? Does God rejoice over us with singing while we touch, as does His holy Spirit, and all of heaven's angels, eh?

In that case, go for it.

Peripatetic · Jul 10, 2011

brinny said:
What worship music is best while masturbating? Does God rejoice over us with singing while we touch, as does His holy Spirit, and all of heaven's angels, eh?

We could ask the same question when we burp after eating a bag of greasy potato chips, lay on the couch watching reality TV, or read a trashy novel when we could be volunteering our time. The truth is, everyone is indulgent from time to time. None of us spends every minute doing what's best in God's eyes. Those that try are going down a dangerous path of rules-based religion like the Pharisees.

You do bring up one important point though: we need to reconcile our actions with our relationship with God. We should never think that we will hide from God or turn off our relationship during our guilty pleasures. When we wrestle with the "debatable matters", we should pray for guidance and wisdom. The Holy Spirit will help us to discern what is compatible with our Christian sanctification and what is not. We just need to remember what Paul tells us (also in Romans 14):

"So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another."
and
"So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God."

It's fine to share your beliefs, but not to judge others. While it's possible that some may have a scarred conscience, it also could just be part of the unique path towards sanctification that we all share with God individually.

brinny · Jul 10, 2011

Originally Posted by brinny
What worship music is best while masturbating? Does God rejoice over us with singing while we touch, as does His holy Spirit, and all of heaven's angels, eh?

Peripatetic said:
We could ask the same question when we burp after eating a bag of greasy potato chips, lay on the couch watching reality TV, or read a trashy novel when we could be volunteering our time. The truth is, everyone is indulgent from time to time. None of us spends every minute doing what's best in God's eyes. Those that try are going down a dangerous path of rules-based religion like the Pharisees.

You do bring up one important point though: we need to reconcile our actions with our relationship with God. We should never think that we will hide from God or turn off our relationship during our guilty pleasures. When we wrestle with the "debatable matters", we should pray for guidance and wisdom. The Holy Spirit will help us to discern what is compatible with our Christian sanctification and what is not. We just need to remember what Paul tells us (also in Romans 14):

"So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another."
and
"So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God."

It's fine to share your beliefs, but not to judge others. While it's possible that some may have a scarred conscience, it also could just be part of the unique path towards sanctification that we all share with God individually.

As you say......we are reminded....let us put on the full armour of God and run the race and put aside every hindrance, for as it is written, the enemy goes about as a roaring lion seeking who he may devour.

spiritman1 · Jul 10, 2011

Blueforest said:
Mmm-hmm, and this has to do with me how, dear friend?

Are you accusing me of being gay, a buddhist monk, who practices black magick, using Tarot cards and having been convicted of serial killing with an axe, and being a psychopath?

Or, are you saying God cannot (or will not) forgive someone who has done those things? Is that not, then, a gospel of works and self-righteousness? You are no better than they are. Not. One. Bit.

Not without repentance!,Try actually reading what I write, instead of merely thinking what I might of said, your a bit defensive, in no way shape or form have I insinuated that your a gay monk practicing black magic etc.... etc....but the fact of the matter without repentance there can be no forgivness of sins, thats exactly what the false gospel being preached today is all about. If you think you can be saved without repenting, then you have been duped, even the demons believe Jesus is Lord and they tremble

spiritman1 · Jul 10, 2011

JCMJ friend said:
im sorry but if you go around condeming other people i cannot find your advise helpful,the ones you condem are the ones who in love are trying to help me with answers.and im grateful to them for their answer.

Not a problem! you want worldly advice not biblical advice....the bible is more than clear, ALL SEX outside of marriage is a sin. period!

mandelduke · Jul 10, 2011

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/font]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']touching yourself is not a sin I would be worried about. [/font][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/font]

iambren · Jul 10, 2011

First,The point I made earlier is from sheer reason. Probably 80-90% of people have ongoing masturbation or have done it at least once. You DON'T get 80-90% of people wrestling with greed or sloth or any of the other sins. So one takes pause to ask---"Why is this so constant, so widely done in our population?". Well, maybe because it's different....it's NOT a sin. Like what would be the percentage of babies that suck their thumb? It's a human thing, like masturbation is a human thing.......self comfort.

Second,It helps to define terms. GOD gave us sexual thoughts, they are normal to our human constitution. They are different from lust, especially the way that Jesus is using it via "looking upon a woman" verses. Ask yourself "Why doesn't He want us to do that?". He usually takes the non-phariseical route to say don't look upon to lust for her because you want to stop BEFORE you take her. It's a dangerous practice because you are feeding the heart that will push the will to act out.

Third,I believe this requires the Holy Spirit guiding us to discern when we cross over the lust-line. Somehow my inner spiritual man tugs at my sleeve when I meditate too long in sexual thought over a woman where alarms go off and I am growing to WANT that woman, to GET that woman. At this point I would agree that masturbation can be used in a sinful way. But if your sexual thoughts are not directed sinfully, and you want to think about being in bed with 10 vestial virgins, swinging from chandeliers that is your private business.

Fourth,last point. Lordy-bee, it sure does help to relieve sexual tension. A lifesaver for hormonal teenage boys. And if it takes the edge off in order to live a righteous life then so be it. BTW, I have used the male view when writing but realize that all applies to women also.

GloryBe! · Jul 10, 2011

spiritman1 said:
Not a problem! you want worldly advice not biblical advice....the bible is more than clear, ALL SEX outside of marriage is a sin. period!

Spiritman... You have yet to provide the "Biblical advice" you speak of. You haven't been able to give a scripture that is on subject. I believe the original poster was looking for unbiased Bible-based information to help to come to a conclusion, not overly-emotional ranting.

On that note, does anyone else have any other take on the original subject? There has, so far, been several informative posts on both sides.

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