mastabating

MasterpieceMesias · Aug 10, 2011

what is up with this 'spouse' thing??? Why is everything sexual centered around marriage?? Nobody wants to get married anymore guys, especially not anyone my age. If you went around and asked teenagers nowadays about marriage they'd be like "Phsssshh! Yeah right!! I've been cheated on/betrayed too many times to even consider that!!" Divorce rates have sprung up, that alone should tell you something, there was once a time when both parties were dedicated to their marriage, and I'd love to have lived during those times, but now everything's gotten progressively worse in all aspects of life that the marriage bed has been devoured by hungry beasts.

savedbygrace30 · Aug 11, 2011

JCMJ friend said:
Im not either way about it,im not too sure?

i've been struggling with this question too in the last few days. the Bible talks about evil desire, passion, sexual immorality, and sensuality. but it doesn't say that touching yourself is any of these things.
i sometimes think God is telling me something about my life through His word, when it's not God.
i have before thought God was telling me I was loving the world and wanting to be of the world, cause i desired things and enjoyed things that He wants me to enjoy within this world.
i have given up many things, in light of that, in my past.
for weeks, i thought God was saying m. is of Him and o.k. but in the last few days, i've been impressed upon by the words mentioned before that have alarmed me that it may not be, but rather of the flesh and the sins mentioned above.

i am choosing to ask God for a clear conscience and obedience and that He would bless me and forgive me for anything i've done that's sinful.

it is hard for me to know, based on just conscience. cause my conscience is so easily stricken.

i hope this has helped some.

God wants good things for us. i just need help, his help and other's in knowing what is good. but today, i believe that m. is o.k. and is good, unless the thoughts are impure. impure thoughts i know are not of Him.

iambren · Aug 11, 2011

I say there are plenty of sins to avoid. We don't have to go creating more;this is not one of them.

Brownstoned · Aug 28, 2011

I remember learning when I was younger that in the original hebrew, the word sin did not exist. There was the idea of good (Godly, or comes from God), and there was the absence of good (the presence of God is gone due to judgement), which later generations assigned the noun 'Sin' to. If there happens to be any programmers reading this, its similar to 'null'. You have a value (char, integer, whatever), or you have no value (null). The same can apply today. Is a certain act good or is it non-good? Good question to ask on the subject of lust. Is lust a Godly act or is it not?

Togowack · Aug 28, 2011

NathanielRH said:
Masturbating is abuse of the flesh.

Yes, it is related to sin.

It is something that the average Christian should practice Fasting. Although, falling short of this fast is expected for most. These things are planned for in the eyes of God.

However, if you dare but-so look to another who is married, or courting, or un-Christian, and lust for them -- you are answering the calls of the darkness within you.

-Nathan

you can't fast every day of your life

HeavenlyMetal · Aug 29, 2011

Masturbating in itself is not a sin, but makes you unclean. (Leviticus 15:16)
Those who are unclean are denied of the benefits of being a believer until they are clean again. (2 Chronicles 23:19) (Deuteronomy 23:10-14)

The lustful fantasies that usually accompany masturbation is definitely sinning. (Matthew 5:28)

How to be clean again? Well in the old days all you could do was wait. Now we can ask Jesus for forgiveness and to make a new clean start. That involves immediatly overcoming unclean habits, and asking to be lead in the spirit and not the flesh. Since the holy spirit dwells in us, we can overcome uncleanliness by living in the spirit.

Like almost any unclean health problem, the idea is prevention.

TheDag · Aug 29, 2011

HeavenlyMetal said:
Masturbating in itself is not a sin, but makes you unclean. (Leviticus 15:16)
Those who are unclean are denied of the benefits of being a believer until they are clean again. (2 Chronicles 23:19) (Deuteronomy 23:10-14)

The lustful fantasies that usually accompany masturbation is definitely sinning. (Matthew 5:28)

How to be clean again? Well in the old days all you could do was wait. Now we can ask Jesus for forgiveness and to make a new clean start. That involves immediatly overcoming unclean habits, and asking to be lead in the spirit and not the flesh. Since the holy spirit dwells in us, we can overcome uncleanliness by living in the spirit.

Like almost any unclean health problem, the idea is prevention.

If your goingto repeat these verses then perhaps you could deal with the responses already made regarding them.

HeavenlyMetal · Aug 30, 2011

Those verses are very self explanatory.

Boidae · Aug 30, 2011

HeavenlyMetal said:
Those verses are very self explanatory.

Good thing we're under the new covenant and not the old as far as those verses go and they no longer apply to us.

As I have said throughout this thread, if one is married and think of only their spouse when masturbating, there is no sin, as the sin happens when you think of other women.

I go by the above and have never been convicted by the Holy Spirit. I have prayed about my situation and God has only reminded me not to think of other woman besides my wife, and not to use pornography.

HeavenlyMetal · Aug 30, 2011

Where do you get that it's only a sin when thinking of other women besides your spouse? Cause in Matthew it just says "a woman", not "any woman besides your spouse" or something along those lines. Makes sense though. I still feel that sexually desiring anyone is lusting for them and having lust in your mind at all is evil & wrong.

And is it not good to take heed to the old scriptures as well? Now that we have Jesus, some of those scriptures may not apply to our daily living, but to disregard them seems a bit uncanny. It's still God's Word.

Boidae · Aug 30, 2011

HeavenlyMetal said:
Where do you get that it's only a sin when thinking of other women besides your spouse? Cause in Matthew it just says "a woman", not "any woman besides your spouse" or something along those lines. Makes sense though. I still feel that sexually desiring anyone is lusting for them and having lust in your mind at all is evil & wrong.

And is it not good to take heed to the old scriptures as well? Now that we have Jesus, some of those scriptures may not apply to our daily living, but to disregard them seems a bit uncanny. It's still God's Word.

Because when you're married, you generally can not have sex without lusting for your spouse. Lusting after your spouse isn't sin, otherwise it would be a very dry marriage.

Tell me, when a wife puts on lingerie to get her husband in the mood, what do you think that the husband is doing?

How can one have sex with their spouse and not desire them sexually?

Johnnz · Aug 30, 2011

Boidae said:
Because when you're married, you generally can not have sex without lusting for your spouse. Lusting after your spouse isn't sin, otherwise it would be a very dry marriage.

Tell me, when a wife puts on lingerie to get her husband in the mood, what do you think that the husband is doing?

How can one have sex with their spouse and not desire them sexually?

That is an unfortunate understanding of lust. Our normal physical, hormonal sex drive is not lustful in any way of itself, any more than tasting food would be lustful. Sensual yes, because God designed us with bodies.

Sinful lust requires deliberate choice to breach some moral standard. A married couple choosing to engage in sex and thereby becoming sexually aroused is what we are meant to experience from sex.

John
NZ

Boidae · Aug 30, 2011

Johnnz said:
That is an unfortunate understanding of lust. Our normal physical, hormonal sex drive is not lustful in any way of itself, any more than tasting food would be lustful. Sensual yes, because God designed us with bodies.

Sinful lust requires deliberate choice to breach some moral standard. A married couple choosing to engage in sex and thereby becoming sexually aroused is what we are meant to experience from sex.

John
NZ

I can tell you that I am thinking lustful thoughts when my wife puts on lingerie for me. I'm thinking of what I will do to her and with her.

These are all lustful thoughts.

I still maintain that MB while thinking of your spouse is not sin as you're thinking only of your wife.

Johnnz · Aug 30, 2011

No they are not. They are sexually arousing thoughts which, within marriage, are totally legitimate. Sexual arousal does not equal sinful lust. Or are you just using the word 'lust' as a synonym for mere arousal?

John
NZ

Boidae · Aug 30, 2011

Johnnz said:
No they are not. They are sexually arousing thoughts which, within marriage, are totally legitimate. Sexual arousal does not equal sinful lust. Or are you just using the word 'lust' as a synonym for mere arousal?

John
NZ

I am using it as a synonym because I know that the thoughts I had before I was married (as well as before becoming a Christian) mirror the thoughts that I now have of my wife , especially when she dresses in something provocative.

TheDag · Aug 30, 2011

HeavenlyMetal said:
Where do you get that it's only a sin when thinking of other women besides your spouse? Cause in Matthew it just says "a woman", not "any woman besides your spouse" or something along those lines. Makes sense though. I still feel that sexually desiring anyone is lusting for them and having lust in your mind at all is evil & wrong.

And is it not good to take heed to the old scriptures as well? Now that we have Jesus, some of those scriptures may not apply to our daily living, but to disregard them seems a bit uncanny. It's still God's Word.

Your understanding of this verse ignores what adultery is. You can not commit adultery with your own wife.

This is what I meant in my post #388. The responses people are giving you now have already been mentioned several times and nobody has countered them. So once again if you are going to just repeat verses already mentioned then you need to explain how it makes MB a sin and why what has previously been said is not correct. I realise it is tough when one comes in so far into a thread but just endlessly repeating stuff doesn't get anywhere.

Johnnz · Aug 30, 2011

Boidae said:
I am using it as a synonym because I know that the thoughts I had before I was married (as well as before becoming a Christian) mirror the thoughts that I now have of my wife , especially when she dresses in something provocative.

We have our human responses to many things. We can misuse them or not. Many of the feelings and thoughts you had prior to marriage were ones that are part of being sexual and human. The major change now is in your values, how you express your sexual arousal.

John
NZ

HeavenlyMetal · Sep 6, 2011

TheDag said:
Your understanding of this verse ignores what adultery is. You can not commit adultery with your own wife.

This is what I meant in my post #388. The responses people are giving you now have already been mentioned several times and nobody has countered them. So once again if you are going to just repeat verses already mentioned then you need to explain how it makes MB a sin and why what has previously been said is not correct. I realise it is tough when one comes in so far into a thread but just endlessly repeating stuff doesn't get anywhere.

How does this ignore what adultery is? It's one of the 10 commandments to not commit adultery, so why would I understand this verse in Matthew differently?

I'm just giving my input, an opinion of my thoughts on masturbating. I'm not God and I do not know the perfect answer; I can only say what I feel morally. Yeah I hadn't read the other posts, but I'm not going to dig through each and every one to try and "counter" them, I'm just here to share my input.

Plus I never said I thought masturbating was a sin, I said while lusting it is because lusting in general is wrong. I just said it makes you unclean and not worthy of the benefits of being a believer, but someone kindly pointed out that that does not apply to us in the new covenant. It still feels wrong and unclean though. In my opinion, some people just try to find loop-holes in the Bible to favor themselves & justify their immorality. I'm going to listen to what God says to me in both the Old testament and the New Testament because the Word is the Word, period, and I want to completely live for God. Who's to say that's wrong? I apologize if I sound put-out, I'm tired.

HeavenlyMetal · Sep 6, 2011

Boidae said:
I am using it as a synonym because I know that the thoughts I had before I was married (as well as before becoming a Christian) mirror the thoughts that I now have of my wife , especially when she dresses in something provocative.

Lust is having very strong sexual desire. Before you were married, any thoughts of sexual desire about anyone, was sexually immoral. Now that you are married-and since sexual desire for your wife is not immoral-then it wouldn't be lusting if for your wife only. That's just my take on it.

Since you pointed out that the uncleanliness from masturbating does not apply to us because we live under the new covenant, then I would agree with you that masturbating while thinking of your wife only is probably OK. I wouldn't know how it feels morally because I'm not married.

TheDag · Sep 6, 2011

HeavenlyMetal said:
How does this ignore what adultery is? It's one of the 10 commandments to not commit adultery, so why would I understand this verse in Matthew differently?

What I was responding to is the following comment of yours

HeavenlyMetal said:
Where do you get that it's only a sin when thinking of other women besides your spouse? Cause in Matthew it just says "a woman", not "any woman besides your spouse" or something along those lines. Makes sense though. I still feel that sexually desiring anyone is lusting for them and having lust in your mind at all is evil & wrong.

If your view of thepassage in Matthew is this then it would only be logical that having sex with your wife is actually a sinful act. So my point is that the verse should be read in the context of what adultery is.

I understand you are giving your opinion which is fine and that folowing what God has told you is good. Just don't forget we all need to be open to different views in case we are wrong. We can always ask God about it. I find it hard to hear what God is telling me so find the approach of listening to others in case God uses them. After all I often need to be smacked over the head for the message to get through!

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