Masonic ritual origins and meanings

[O.F.F.]

So I'll ask the simple question once again that will lay the matter to rest: since you seem to have first-hand knowledge of Masons belonging to a specific O.T.O. Lodge, then it stands to reason that you should also know specifically which

While you wait for an answer, I have a question for you, Corey and Bill.

Since you all seem to have first-hand knowledge that no Masons within your jurisdictions do not belonging to an O.T.O. Lodge, then tell us how you can stop an O.T.O. member from petitoning your respective Masonic lodges and becoming a Mason, when all that your investigation committees will ascertain from him is his belief in a Supreme Being in order to approve his eligibility for Masonry?

Given the simply requirement of belief in any ol' Supreme Being of choice and no further inquiry, it stands to reason that neither of you can definitively say that there aren't any Masons in your lodges, or any other "regular" Masonic lodges for that matter, that are also members of O.T.O. lodges. Can you?

 

[Thaddeus]

I'm not going to tell you which lodge specifically they belong to. They provide me with all the information I need and I don't want you reporting them, at least not yet.

You wouldn't even tell me the name of the CHURCH in which you preach.

I stand behind my words that they are recognized Freemasons.

 

[Thaddeus]

When you first came aboard, you were making all sorts of wild claims about "Masons." That was the only identifier you used for them, and yet when we questioned you enough to determine who you were referring to, it turned out that at that time you were referring to O.T.O., which is clearly not a legitimate Freemasonic body.

None of that is true. When I say Mason I mean mason. When I say OTO member I mean OTO member. Trust me, I know the difference, it's pretty simple.
I've quoted from the books of Freemasons, not OTO members though their literature are often one in the same as is their regalia.

 

[Thaddeus]

One thing I do need to correct, they said that eventhough Masonry and the OTO have some parallel degrees, when a Mason joins the OTO he has to start at the first degree.

One guy who is in the OTO, but not a mason, said that he plans to join masonry and will have to start at the blue lodge.

 

[Rev Wayne]

Trust me, I know the difference, it's pretty simple.

Yes, I still recall how simple your understanding was from when you first appeared on the thread. And I still recall from a few posts back where you referred to the "Worshipful Master" degree, which of course doesn't exist. In fact, I'm underwhelmed by your expertise with Masonic information.

 

[Thaddeus]

Actually i said level.
Do you remember me asking you what the name of the church you preached in was?

 

[Rev Wayne]

Since you all seem to have first-hand knowledge that no Masons within your jurisdictions do not belonging to an O.T.O. Lodge, then tell us how you can stop an O.T.O. member from petitoning your respective Masonic lodges and becoming a Mason, when all that your investigation committees will ascertain from him is his belief in a Supreme Being in order to approve his eligibility for Masonry?

You have forgotten about the investigative committee.

The clandestine gang all seem to have an antimason streak in them--the ability to deactive their scruples gland at will.

 

[Thaddeus]

To tell you the truth, I can't quite remember what one of them said.

The mason has to hold some position in order for them to share the masonic temple.
I can ask him though if it's important to you?

 

[Rev Wayne]

Actually i said level.

A distinction without a difference, since the context of your remark clearly indicated you meant the same thing that the word "degree" would have meant in the same statement:

One must be at least a Worshipful Master level in order for them to have access to the masonic temple.

And be careful which direction you exhale that stuff, I think Mike is allergic to smoke.

 

[Rev Wayne]

Do you remember me asking you what the name of the church you preached in was?

Yes.

 

[Thaddeus]

It really was worthless information. I didnt mean degree. I simply forgot the specific position, office or whatever the official title he used was. It really wasn't important to me.

Masons have too many Masters for me to keep track of.

There is apparently some level or position a mason must hold to allow others into the masonic temple.

 

[O.F.F.]

There is apparently some level or position a mason must hold to allow others into the masonic temple.

Yes, as long as he doesn't violate any rules of the Grand Lodge to which they are under, that position would be the head of a Blue (House) Lodge, which is the "Worshipful Master."

 

[O.F.F.]

By the way Thad, have you noticed how Wayne's avatar has gradually changed over time from one that seemed more Christian to one that now is more Masonic? I wonder what that means? What's going on in his heart and mind? Only God knows. . .

 

[Thaddeus]

Thanks Mike

They must not be breaking the rules. One told me that the OTO were leaving the temple as the Masons were going in and the masons mentioned something about the OTO having the same regalia.

Head of the Blue Lodge is an occultist, imagine that.

 

[Thaddeus]

I have definately noticed the avatar change, I mentioned it one day. I not sure what the inspiration for this choice is?

 

[billmcelligott]

Yes, as long as he doesn't violate any rules of the Grand Lodge to which they are under, that position would be the head of a Blue (House) Lodge, which is the "Worshipful Master."

UGLE rule to which each Master must confirm .

"I will not administer or cause to be administered any right or ceremony subversive of, or contarry to that of United Grand lodge of England."

I am confident that all Grand lodges have a similar wording.

No Grand Lodge that I have been able to investigate recignises aby OTO or Wiccan group, so any Freemason that takes part in those ceremonies is beaking his oath.

I canb not prove that there are no Masons in any of these groups , but your posting suggest it is a common practice and it is not. Mike would be fully aware of this, I am confident of that. But yet he continues to support a theory that he knows is not acceptable under the rules of Freemasonry.

In the UK UGLE will not allow 'York Rite' or 'Orient of France' to open a Lodge without issueing a proclamation that anyone joining will be expelled from UK Freemasonry.

 

[Thaddeus]

So it's ok for a Wiccan to become a Freemason and their god is an acceptable deity, but a Freemason can't join a Wiccan group?

That rule, seemingly, governs the rituals of the masonic lodge only.

What if the Master is not administering or causing the rite to be, but is in a subordinate position within another body?

 

[Rev Wayne]

By the way Thad, have you noticed how Wayne's avatar has gradually changed over time from one that seemed more Christian to one that now is more Masonic? I wonder what that means? What's going on in his heart and mind? Only God knows. . .

Well, since the door has opened......Thad, have you noticed how Mike retains the symbolism even after years of being away from the Lodge? Oh, he couches it well with his lofty self-aggrandizing explanations for why he can rationalize it away with spiritual-sounding psycho-babble. But we all know the real reason for it is that in a sense, he never really left. That explains his vehemence toward me, because I represent the choice that he can't quite swallow his pride and surrender to. It would be too hard a thing for his ego, to have to admit he was wrong and that his misinterpretations are the only thing that ever convinced him he should leave anyway. He knows as well as anyone else there is nothing incompatible with his faith and the Lodge, but he has become so accustomed to being on the opposite end of the debate, he would consider it a humiliation to give in now. He's even had moments when the feelings have been overwhelming and have resulted in some strange email exchanges with pro-masonic folks like masonicinfo. Naturally, like anyone under conviction, he resents the least little implication that the thing convicting him is the source of his struggle. Sooner or later the ox will give up the prideful fight and stop kicking against the goads.

 

[Rev Wayne]

Yes, as long as he doesn't violate any rules of the Grand Lodge to which they are under, that position would be the head of a Blue (House) Lodge, which is the "Worshipful Master."

Talk about going from the sublime to the ridiculous. It was a foolish enough suggestion to try to tell us that a Mason would go against the rules of his Lodge and join O.T.O.

But now you would have us believe that every member of O.T.O. is also the Master of a Lodge in regular Masonry? You guys have a way of sticking your foot in further every time the mouth opens.

 

[OldShepherd]

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