Mary

TheListener · Nov 19, 2006

Rick Otto said:
"Rick, why don't you pray about this issue if it is bothering you so much?"

>I wonder if it ocurred to you that I HAVE prayed about it.

I wonder if you realy grasp what it IS that "bothers me" so much.

Doubletalk is exactly right.

God Bless you.

icedtea · Nov 19, 2006

lionroar0 said:
We ask Mary to pray with and for us. She has no power to answer prayers.

Peace

You are right about that. She doesn't. So I don't pray to my friends. Only God.

lionroar0 · Nov 19, 2006

"Rick, why don't you pray about this issue if it is bothering you so much?"

>I wonder if it ocurred to you that I HAVE prayed about it.

I wonder if you realy grasp what it IS that "bothers me" so much.

Doubletalk is exactly right.

I would be bothered too when confronted with the truth of the matter.

Truth is all of the Historic Churches do ask Mary as well as the saints in heaven to pray with and for them.

Even some of the reformers did not deviate from this.

Peace

lionroar0 · Nov 19, 2006

You are right about that. She doesn't. So I don't pray to my friends. Only God.

Yep.

Peace

TheListener · Nov 19, 2006

HowardDean said:
You are right about that. She doesn't. So I don't pray to my friends. Only God.

But you ask your friends to pray for you don't you?

How about using different wording:

Instead of saying "praying to MAry" how about saying "Asking Mary to pray for us".

icedtea · Nov 19, 2006

I only ask humans on earth (Christians) to pray FOR my situation.
No intercessor is needed. That means no Mary, no priest. My friends pray to Jesus.
God doesn't mind that I never address mary.

TheListener · Nov 19, 2006

HowardDean said:
I only ask humans on earth (Christians) to pray FOR my situation.
No intercessor is needed. That means no Mary, no priest. My friends pray to Jesus.
God doesn't mind that I never address mary.

But if you ask a friend here on earth to pray for you does that make him an intercessor?

CrusaderKing · Nov 19, 2006

Mary is not the one who answers our prayers. She just goes to Jesus with our prayers. That's not to say we should not pray directly to God, which is ultimately what you should be doing in the first place. I see nothing wrong with petitioning such an important saint or any other saint in heaven to pray for me. Sometimes we just need a few more people (or angels) pulling for us.

lionroar0 · Nov 19, 2006

You didn't correct anything

you didn't have to do anything at all.

You didn't even have to admit the truth.

Click to expand...

Yes I did. You were misrepresenting what the CC actually taught. You misinterpreted a CATHOLIC document. This CATHOLIC reinterpreted it for you correctly via what the Catholic actually teaches VS what you think it does.

There was nothing for me to admit.

Peace

icedtea · Nov 19, 2006

TheListener said:
But if you ask a friend here on earth to pray for you does that make him an intercessor?

These friends are alive. Mary isn't.

TheListener · Nov 20, 2006

HowardDean said:
These friends are alive. Mary isn't.

Are you saying Mary is dead?

What about Moses and Elijah, didn't Jesus talk to them while He was here on earth?

CrusaderKing · Nov 20, 2006

HowardDean said:
These friends are alive. Mary isn't.

Mary has eternal life in heaven. I thought we aspired to be worthy of obtaining everlasting life in God's kingdom.

icedtea · Nov 20, 2006

Dead means not on earth. Jesus was on earth, but was bodily resurrected. Not so anyone else. Believe as you wish, I disagree and God says its okay.

CrusaderKing · Nov 20, 2006

HowardDean said:
Dead means not on earth. Jesus was on earth, but was bodily resurrected. Not so anyone else. Believe as you wish, I disagree and God says its okay.

I seem to remember reading something about Elijah being carried up into heaven on a chariot of fire and not tasting death in his life. I don't mean to nitpick.

Zeena · Nov 20, 2006

TheListener said:
Are you saying Mary is dead?

What about Moses and Elijah, didn't Jesus talk to them while He was here on earth?

Yea, but I bet He wasn't asking for thier advice! :LOL:

TheListener · Nov 20, 2006

Zeena said:
Yea, but I bet He wasn't asking for thier advice! :LOL:

I didn't say they did, my point was, these people are alive.

And if you don't believe in God or Heaven or all that stuff then you shouldn't be posting in this section of the forums.

CrusaderKing · Nov 20, 2006

I don't think we really know all the details of their conversation. We do know it had something to do with his upcoming crucifixion. But beyond that, we don't know.

Zeena · Nov 20, 2006

TheListener said:
I didn't say they did, my point was, these people are alive.

And if you don't believe in God or Heaven or all that stuff then you shouldn't be posting in this section of the forums.

I'm a Christian no matter what you say..

Keep your sarcastic comments to yourself next time please do not attack my person!

icedtea · Nov 20, 2006

Amen.

Rick Otto · Nov 20, 2006

why should we use different language than the pope himself?
He SAYS "pray to" not "ask her to pray for".

He says "worship" her.
Look again:
Pope Pius IX Eneffabilis Deus (1854), "Let the most dear children of the Catholic Church hear these words and with more ardent zeal of piety, religion and love, proceed to worship, invoke and pray to the most Blessed Virgin Mary."

The standard response is usualy "We don't worship her4, we "venerate" her!"

Now that they have the pope's own words "worship her" in their faces, the response is "worship doesn't mean worship", and they expect us to accept the idea that only THEY can tell us how to interperet plain English.

Aren't you a little embarrassed for them?
Don't you find that even a little absurd?
Don't you find the very idea of "interpreting" plain english to english speakers even a tiny bit silly?
Doesn't scripture say let your yes mean yes, & your no mean no?
Or do you find it reasonable to let only those loyal to the denom tell you when yes means yes & no means no?

I've never seen denial be so obvious. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

Mary

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