Mary Mother of God: Do We Worship Her or Honor Her?

Michie

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Many of our non-Catholic friends wonder why we Catholics pay so much attention to her. They find that loyalty is puzzling, and many times they wonder if we are guilty of some idolatry of sorts. There are scant references for Mary the Mother God in the New Testament, but she is found in the Old Testament very many times. Dr. Brant Pitre has authored a book that shows in scriptural detail why the Catholic faithful venerates Mary. The title of the book is Jesus and the Jewish Roots of Mary.

According to Dr. Pitre’s biblical research based on Christian typology, Mary has many characters: she is the new Eve, the new Ark of the Covenant, the Mother of God. According to Dr. Pitre, some Judaic biblical scholars recognize her as the new Rachel. Islam exalts her as the mother of the prophet Jesus.

Typology
Typology in Christian theology is the interpretation of some figures and events in the Old Testament as foreshadowing the same in the New Testament. It is a significant mode of interpreting ancient literature. Saint Augustine says, “The New Testament lies hidden in the Old, and the Old Testament is revealed in the New.” For this reason, Catholics place a big emphasis on typology. And, just as we look to the Old Testament to understand Jesus, we should look to the Old Testament to understand Mary. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, later Pope Benedict XVI, once said, “The image of Mary in the New Testament is woven entirely of Old Testament threads.”

Mary the New Eve
Genesis tells us that God created Adam from the earth and Eve from Adam’s rib. The Gospels tell us that Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. Primarily, the Word was made flesh in Mary’s womb the moment she said “yes” to the angel Gabriel. Nothing is impossible for God. Adam and Eve were responsible for original sin and death. Jesus and His Mother Mary are responsible for the reconciliation of sins and the defeat of death to everlasting life. God chose the Virgin Mary to be the earthly Mother of His Son Jesus. Thus, as Jesus is the new Adam, Mary is the new Eve.

Mary as the New Ark

Mary Mother of God: Do We Worship Her or Honor Her? - Catholic Stand
 

annad347

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Funny this thread is here because I was about to ask this very question... why is Mary so important to the worship of God, when she has nothing to do with our salvation. You can have God's salvation without Mary, or do Catholic believe Mary is needed for our salvation?

also wasn't Eve created to be Adam's partner. So they could rule over the world together, so man would not walk alone. If Mary is the new Eve are Catholic saying Mary is Jesus partner?
 
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dzheremi

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Funny this thread is here because I was about to ask this very question... why is Mary so important to the worship of God, when she has nothing to do with our salvation. You can have God's salvation without Mary, or do Catholic believe Mary is needed for our salvation?

also wasn't Eve created to be Adam's partner. So they could rule over the world together, so man would not walk alone. If Mary is the new Eve are Catholic saying Mary is Jesus partner?

Not meaning to speak out of turn here (I was Roman Catholic, but am not anymore, so I would defer to them in explaining their own doctrines concerning her), but with regard to St. Mary as the 'New Eve', since this is something we also say in Orthodoxy, the relevant parallel is not in partnership as in the Garden, but in restoration of mankind, to the extent that there is a paraliturgical song in the Coptic Orthodox tradition that is sung about St. Mary known by the informal title "You did not listen to the serpent", wherein St. Mary's obedience to God is contrasted with our first parents' disobedience. That in no way means that salvation is somehow hers to give (she herself exclaimed "My spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior"; see Luke 1:46-55), but does mean that she is important in the salvation history of mankind. And how could she not be? She gave birth to Jesus, Who is our Lord, God, and Savior! It is quite literally through her that salvation came to us.
 
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dzheremi

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Through Jesus salvation came to us.

Yes, and Jesus came to us through St. Mary. As in, she literally gave birth to Him. That's why we call her Theotokos (lit. "birth-giver to God") in Eastern Christianity. (I believe in Latin it is Deipara; it means the same thing.)
 
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dzheremi

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Still doesn't explain why she is so honored to the point other it appears she is being worshiped... why is she to the worship of God... her only role was to give birth to Jesus. I'm trying to understand.

What do you mean 'only'? Is the incarnation of our Lord, God, and Savior a small matter?
 
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annad347

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What do you mean 'only'? Is the incarnation of our Lord, God, and Savior a small matter?

Only as in singular, one job. Not meant to diminish the importance of the job but she had exclusively one job.
 
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Michie

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For many Protestants, honor of anyone other than God is regarded as detracting from his honor and therefore is idolatry. Catholics recognize distinctions between adoration and veneration and also follow the notion of worshipping God through his creation. Thus, St. Paul writes: “Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made” (Rom. 1:20).

Analogously, we can say, “Jesus’ eternal power and deity has been clearly perceived in the things—in this instance the person, Mary—that have been made.” That’s both/and thinking.

St. Louis saying, “We never give more honor” does not imply that it is the highest or only form of honoring Christ; only that no other form could give more honor. Technically, one could also say, in line with the quotation above, that “we never give more honor to Christ than simply do what he says.” They could both be on the highest level. And indeed they are! Moreover, the saint makes the following equation: “We honor her simply and solely to honor him.”

The biblical motif of imitating holy people as models or examples is similar to veneration:

  • 1 Corinthians 4:15-16: For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. I urge you, then, be imitators of me.
  • Philippians 3:17: Brethren, join in imitating me, and mark those who so live as you have an example in us (cf. 4:9).
  • Hebrews 6:11-12: And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness in realizing the full assurance of hope until the end, so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises (cf. 13:7; 1 Tim 4:12; 2 Tim 3:10-14; James 5:10-11; 1 Pet. 3:1-2; 5:2-3).
St. Paul makes it clear more than once that imitating him is in complete harmony with the notion of imitating Christ, whom Paul is imitating (it’s both things at once):

  • Ephesians 5:1: Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children.
  • 1 Corinthians 11:1: Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.
  • 1 Thessalonians 1:6-7: And you became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you received the word in much affliction, with joy inspired by the Holy Spirit; so that you became an example to all the believers in Macedo’nia and in Acha’ia (cf. 2:9-14).
By analogy, it is altogether proper to venerate and honor saints, who have more perfectly attained God’s likeness:

  • 2 Corinthians 3:18: And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being changed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
  • 1 John 3:2: Beloved, we are God’s children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is (cf. Matt. 22:30; 1 Cor. 13:9-12; Phil. 3:21; Heb. 11:40; Rev. 21:27; 22:14).
Hence, the “heroes of the faith” (Hebrews 11) are to be highly regarded, and the biblical writers also command us to honor all sorts of people: all men (Rom. 12:10, 1 Cor. 12:23-26, 1 Pet. 2:17); the emperor (1 Pet. 2:17); government authorities (Rom. 13:6-7); fathers and mothers (Ex. 20:12, Deut. 5:16, Eph. 6:2); widows (1 Tim. 5:3); elders, preachers, and teachers in the Church (1 Tim 5:17); and wives (1 Pet. 3:7, cf. Gen. 30:20).

There are many more examples in the Bible of veneration of both men and angels (often as direct representatives of God):

  • Genesis 18:1-4, 22: And the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day. He lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men stood in front of him. When he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself [shachah] to the earth, and said, “My lord, if I have found favor in your sight, do not pass by your servant. Let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree.” . . .” So the men turned from there, and went toward Sodom; but Abraham still stood before the LORD.
  • Joshua 5:13-14 When Joshua was by Jericho, he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a man stood before him with his drawn sword in his hand; and Joshua went to him and said to him, “Are you for us, or for our adversaries?” And he said, “No; but as commander of the army of the LORD I have now come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and worshipped [shachah], and said to him, “What does my lord bid his servant?”
A “man” is equated with God also in Genesis 32:24 and 32:30. The angel of the Lord is sometimes referred to as God himself, but not always; and is venerated. So, for example:

Judges 13:17-22: And Mano’ah said to the angel of the LORD, “What is your name, so that, when your words come true, we may honor you?” And the angel of the LORD said to him, “Why do you ask my name, seeing it is wonderful?” So Mano’ah took the kid with the cereal offering, and offered it upon the rock to the LORD, to him who works wonders. And when the flame went up toward heaven from the altar, the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar while Mano’ah and his wife looked on; and they fell on their faces to the ground. The angel of the LORD appeared no more to Mano’ah and to his wife. Then Mano’ah knew that he was the angel of the LORD. And Mano’ah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, for we have seen God” (cf. 6:12-16, 20-23).

This passage is remarkable in that it goes back and forth between God (13:19, 22) and the angel of the Lord (or of God) as His direct representative (13:17-18, 20-21, and, in the larger passage, 13:3, 6, 9, 13). It couldn’t be any more “both/and” in outlook. The angel is honored (v. 17), they fall on their faces to worship (v. 20), and at length the angel is equated with God as his visible manifestation (v. 22). But the difference between the angel and God is highlighted by the angel being described as a “man of God” (13:6, 8) and “the man” (13:10-11).

The angel of the Lord is also equated with God (theophany) in Genesis 31:11-13 and Judges 2:1, but differentiated from God as well, as a representative: (2 Sam. 24:16; 1 Kings 19:6-7; 2 Kings 19:35; Dan. 3:25, 28; 6:23; Zech. 1:8-14).

The Bible, in summary, is quite clear: there is an occasional use of angels or men as direct representatives of God, and they are “worshipped” (i.e., venerated) only insofar as they represent God as a visual image or object through whom God is working and communicating. But (also perfectly in line with Catholic beliefs) veneration is also strictly separated from the adoration due to God alone:

  • Acts 10:25-26: When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I too am a man.”
  • Romans 1:25: [T]hey exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen.
  • Colossians 2:18: Let no one disqualify you, insisting on self-abasement and worship of angels.
  • Revelation 22:8-9: I, John, am he who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me; but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brethren the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.”
Everything has to be considered together, as a whole. It is the outright prohibition of all veneration and honor of creatures that is a grossly unbiblical notion.

Moreover, “worship” is used in a wider (literary) sense of showing reverence or obeisance to men of authority (in this instance, a king), in 1 Chronicles 29:20: “And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped [shachah] the LORD, and the king” (KJV). RSV has: “worshiped the LORD, and did obeisance to the king,” but it is one Hebrew word applied to both.

The Bible tells us to “honor all men”—so we think that the Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ, who was God, is worthy of great honor: above all other creatures. And, as shown above, the ultimate and primary aim in honoring and venerating the Blessed Virgin Mary is to worship, honor and adore her Son.

Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman (1801-1890), the famous English convert from Anglicanism, fully understood the qualms and fears of Anglicans and other Protestants when it came to Marian veneration. In fact, he expressed reservations on several occasions (after he became a Catholic), regarding some types of “excessive” devotional expression, even implying that they were not suited for Englishmen.

Yet he possessed a robust devotion to Mary, and some of the utterances in his personal letters directly relate to our present topic:

And so far from the teaching of the Church concerning the Blessed Virgin being a burden, it seems to me the greatest of privileges and honors to be admitted into the very family of God. So we think on earth, when great people ask us into their most intimate circle. This it is, and nothing short of it, to be allowed to hold intercourse with Mary and Joseph; and, so far from its hindering our communion with out Lord, and our faith in Him, it is all that we should have had without it, and so much more over and above. As He comes near us in His Sacrament of love, so does He bring us near to Him by giving us an introduction (as I may say) to His Mother. In speaking to her, we are honouring Him; as He likes to be petitioned by His chosen ones, so does He especially love the petitions which she offers Him; and in asking her to intercede for us, we are pleasing both her and Him. (Letters and Diaries, vol. 22; To Lady Chatterton, 29 March 1866)

Newman understood the Catholic doctrine of the communion of saints even before he formally entered the Catholic Church (in October 1845):

Man is formed for society, for sympathy. God is his happiness, but as the sun’s light comes to us reflected & refracted, so God’s saints are the means under which His glory comes to us (Letters and Diaries, vol. 10; Reflections from an Advent Retreat at Littlemore, 21 Dec. 1843).

Twenty-two years later, in another personal letter, Newman addressed the constant charge that Catholics were engaging in idolatrous practices in their veneration of and devotions to saints:

Before a person is a judge whether our devotions to the Blessed Virgin and the saints are idolatrous or not, he must place himself in the position towards them in which, as a matter of faith, we hold ourselves to be. . . . Now consider the honors paid to monarchs on earth—men kneel to them, bow to their empty throne, pay them the most profound homage, use almost the language of slaves in addressing them, and dare not approach them without a ceremonial. Much more reverently ought the saints to be treated by us, in proportion as heaven is higher than earth—yet I do not think we observe that proportion—our language towards our Lady and the saints is not so much above that which is used towards great personages on earth, as immortal blessedness is above temporal power.

Or take the words used to express human love—they are almost idolatrous—in some cases they are so—i.e., in the spirit in which they are uttered—yet I should be very unwilling to allow that the general body of lovers were idolators. Why is it that we are so little jealous of human love, yet suddenly so shocked if we find Catholics transported by affection towards the saints? Any unconcerned person will feel inclined sometimes to laugh at the terms of endearment used by parties who are attached to each other, and will easily be led to say that they are in very bad taste—such exhibitions are sometimes made when private letters turn up in courts of law, yet no sensible person will doubt on the one hand their reality as confessions of feeling, on the other their exemption from any fair imputation of being idolatrous. I have not yet touched upon the incommunicable relation of the Blessed Virgin to our Lord, as His Mother (Letters and Diaries, vol. 22; To Edward Berdoe, 2 Oct. 1865).

At the same time—just as the Bible does—he is careful to draw a sharp distinction between the veneration/honor of creatures and the adoration/worship of God: “God is to be worship[ed] with an honor of his own, infinitely distinct from any honor we give his creatures, even Mary, the first of them” (Letters and Diaries, vol. 16; To Mrs. Catherine Froude, 2 Jan. 1855).

Thus, while Catholics fully agree in making these crucial distinctions, we also believe that in venerating the saints we are honoring and worshipping God. Praising the painter’s masterpiece is praising him. And who better to venerate and honor (among creatures) than the blessed Virgin Mary: the Mother of God the Son, Jesus, who is presented in the Bible partaking of great glory indeed, in heaven (Rev 12:1-6)?

And if someone objects that God shares his glory with no one, this is also untrue—in fact, massively unbiblical (see John 17:22; Rom. 2:10, 5:2, 9:23; 1 Thess. 2:12; 2 Thess. 2:14; 1 Pet. 4:14, 5:1; 2 Pet 1:3).

How We Honor Jesus Through Mary
 
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Michie

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that's a form letter kind of answer... how about if you're Catholic and you still don't understand why prayers to Mary are so important to the worship of God?
No it’s not. There are your answers. It’s completely biblical and she is not worshipped. Please remember you are in the Catholic forum and you are not allowed to debate or teach here. Sincere questions are welcomed but your answers are all right there to read. Your profile does not say you’re Catholic. And someone claiming to be a ‘Catholic-Lutheran’ Christian makes no sense.
 
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annad347

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...Your answers are all right there.

I'm not debating, it's a question I really need to understand, it's not a simple answer, it's not even about prayers to her... it's about understanding her importance to worshipping God... if I ask what was Jesus importance to worshiping God you would talk about His death. How Him becoming a man brings Him closer to us... there would be **endless** things a person can say as to why Jesus is important to our salvation... His teaching, His baptism... His everything.

I'm asking the same question about Mary, why is she so important to our worship of God.

And yes, I know this is a Catholic forum that's why I'm asking here, Catholics are the only ones, well now maybe Orthodox's, who put so much emphasis on her importance and I'm just trying to understand why... not debating, or saying it's right or wrong, just trying to understand. I've been going to a Catholic church for almost 2 years, was told I dont have to say prayers to Mary to be Catholi . Or to any saint for that matter... and that's fine but I just want undrstand so that's why I asked.

But I'll stop, if this is something God needs me to understand He will explain it to me. Thanks
 
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Michie

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I'm not debating, it's a question I really need to understand, it's not a simple answer, it's not even about prayers to her... it's about understanding her importance to worshipping God... if I ask what was Jesus importance to worshiping God you would talk about His death. How Him becoming a man brings Him closer to us... there would be **endless** things a person can say as to why Jesus is important to our salvation... His teaching, His baptism... His everything.

I'm asking the same question about Mary, why is she so important to our worship of God.

And yes, I know this is a Catholic forum that's why I'm asking here, Catholics are the only ones, well now maybe Orthodox's, who put so much emphasis on her importance and I'm just trying to understand why... not debating, or saying it's right or wrong, just trying to understand. I've been going to a Catholic church for almost 2 years, was told I dont have to say prayers to Mary to be Catholi . Or to any saint for that matter... and that's fine but I just want undrstand so that's why I asked.

But I'll stop, if this is something God needs me to understand He will explain it to me. Thanks
Answers have been given to you. It’s biblical. My suggestion to you is either call a priest, attend a few RCIA classes discussing Mary and her role. Maybe get a Catechism and explore books written by Scott Hahn. Mary played an important role in our salvation history. To regard her as nothing more than a vessel is wrong. I’m a convert myself and while I have been more open and learning her importance as times goes on, I always refer to what the Church says about her. That’s how we learn.
 
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dzheremi

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The answer is in the importance of the incarnation, though it's not my place as a non-Catholic to explain that here, as it could very easily get into Chalcedonian territory which I am very sensibly not to touch here. :)
 
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Michie

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Salvation and Mary
Q: Is it necessary for salvation to believe in the help of Mary and the saints?


A: It is through Mary that salvation (=Christ) came to us but she is not salvation. She is the first redeemed person through Jesus. Catholic faith does not obligate us to believe in Mary as the mandatory way to or source of salvation. However, salvation is much more than myself and my God, saved or damned. Knowing that our salvation is and through Christ, our sole mediator, we celebrate, share, encourage and help each other in the communion of saints. We attempt to follow in the footsteps of Jesus Christ our ultimate model and are happy to be a part of the circle of His disciples.

It is here that we encounter Mary, in many ways similar to us: radically loving Christ, a mother who becomes His disciple, asking Him to help fellow human beings, accepting to become mother in the spirit of Jesus beloved disciple, suffering with Him as mother and disciple, forming part of the Pentecost community in Jerusalem. All of these events are rooted in the Bible. This being as it is, can't we joyously say: I need all the friends I can get? Mary is one of those spiritual friends: unobtrusive, available and compassionate. In the realm of spirituality, she is an offer, not an obsessive must.

All About Mary includes a variety of content, much of which reflects the expertise, interpretations and opinions of the individual authors and not necessarily of the Marian Library or the University of Dayton. Please share feedback or suggestions with marianlibrary@udayton.edu.
 
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Michie

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Okay, that cleared thing for me... thanks.

Still, think it's funny this is the very thread I came here to start.
Believe me, lots of people struggle with the Marian stuff. I did too. I just post info semi-regularly for people to read. Glad you got a little something out of it. :)
 
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Still doesn't explain why she is so honored to the point other it appears she is being worshiped... why is she to the worship of God... her only role was to give birth to Jesus. I'm trying to understand.


God could have chosen any woman to give birth to Jesus but he chose Mary.


An Angel Appears to Mary
26 During Elizabeth’s sixth month of pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27 to a virgin. She was engaged to marry a man named Joseph from the family of David. Her name was Mary. 28 The angel came to her and said, “Greetings! The Lord has blessed you and is with you.”

29 But Mary was very startled by what the angel said and wondered what this greeting might mean.

30 The angel said to her, “Don’t be afraid, Mary; God has shown you his grace. 31 Listen! You will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and you will name him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of King David, his ancestor. 33 He will rule over the people of Jacob forever, and his kingdom will never end.”
 
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