Mary during Mass

[Wolseley]

Just as you say there is no New Eve in the bible, there is also no command or request for you to seek Mary to pray for you or comfort you. You are abandoning Scripture again in favor of teachings from men.

Evan, the thing that you absolutely must understand here is that the Catholic Church does not base its sole rule of faith, belief, and practice on the 66 books of the Protestant Bible.

It doesn't even base them on the 73 books of the Catholic Bible.

It bases them on Holy Scripture (the 73-book version) and Apostolic Tradition, which is equally inspired by God, equally the Word of God, and equally on a par with Scripture.

What this means is, whether or not you can find evidence of a particular Catholic doctrine or practice within the pages of your Bible is utterly, competely, and totally irrelevant.

Basing things on the Bible alone is a Protestant practice, not a Catholic one. It's also a practice that didn't exist for the first 1,500 years of Christian history. It's a fairly recent innovation.

I was in another thread recently, and we were discussing how many times the Catholic church had to recant and revise it's official teaching because it ended up not being Scriptural. It was truely staggering! I wonder if this will be one of those times as well?

(Putting on 10-gallon Moderator Hat and pinning on shiny Moderator Badge)

On this, I will say what I have to say once, and only once, so listen up:

I went through every one of your accusations on the laundry list you provided, explaining how not a single one of them had anything to do with an infallible dogma, doctrine, or teaching of the Catholic Church, and even provided you with references. Apparently you didn't bother to read it, or simply dismissed it, and went right along on your merry way, saying exactly the same things you did before, as indeed you have above. It's exactly the same song, same notes, same tune, without any notice of the explanation which was provided at all.

This is a well-known phenominon among Protestant Fundamentalists; it consists of throwing out the accusation, ignoring the response, and throwing out the exact same accusation again, over and over and over again, trying to win your opponent over by wearing him down.

Let me be perfectly clear:
Number one, This forum is not the place for these types of threads. If you wish to debate these points, TAKE IT TO THE INTERFAITH DISCUSSION FORUM. If you continue to open debate threads in Catholic Discussion, I will either move them, edit them, or delete them as I see fit.

Number two: The spamming technique of "accuse, ignore, accuse again" will not be tolerated for very much longer, so don't press your luck. If you continue to use this particular practice, you risk being Trollbanned.

Be advised.

 

[VOW]

Hey, Wols:

Gonna change your avatar to James Arness?

I love it! We got Barney Fife, and now a potential Marshall Dillon!


Peace and re-runs,
~VOW

 

[Wolseley]

Actually, I was thinking Festus Hagan was probably more appropos......

BTW, did you know that James Arness got that pronounced limp he had from a German mortar shell during the invasion of Anzio? True story! He was a wounded World War II vet. Kind of a wonder that he ever became a successful actor with that handicap, but he did.

 

[Fr. Rob]

Originally posted by VOW
We are directed to pray for one another in the Bible. And since we believe that all Christians, alive and dead, are alive in Christ, it is possible for those who have died, such as Mary and the Saints, to intercede on our behalf and pray with us to God. It's extremely Scriptural.

I will certianly not deny that it is possible for Mary or the Saints to intercede for us, I will say this: we don't need to ask them. First, God knows our needs, and has the answers planned before we can even ask. Second, we are worthy to approach God trough Christ the Lord, and to make our petition through him, for he is (according to Scripture) our *only* mediator and advocate.

The woman in Revelation in Heaven, with the crown of twelve stars, is also taught by the Church to be Mary.

This is not quite as old of a tradition. No interpreter before about 750 a.d. gave such an interpretation to Revelation 12, and neither do the non-Roman branches of the Church.

Catholics don't worship Mary. We honor her, revere her, and love her, as a Mother to us all.

On this you will find that we both agree!

Sorry it took so long to get this posted, we had a very serious situation here at the hospital today, and I have been very busy.

Blessings,
Fr. Rob

 

[Evan]

Wolseley,

Gotcha!

I'm new to this website and I kinda thought I might be out of bounds. I won't debate Catholic doctrine in here any more.

But as far as you answering my points in the other thread point by point. All you did is rationalize away the Catholic Church flip-flopping on official doctrine and pope infallibility but just saying, oh yeah in retrospect, all those numerous Church doctrines that were recanted and revised were not official they were just private opinions. How convienent!!

Baloney! They were official doctrines of the Catholic Church, and the proof is in the blood that was spilt over them, and you know that...sheriff!

Now, you seem to be hiding behind your badge to make your debate points in an unauthorized room, as moderator, just to show-off your big six guns to your cheerleaders. lol

I tell you what...you answer my points on the previous thread, that you left unanswered, and lets do it in a Christian manner without you flashing your badge or six guns around.

And I'll go in any room you choose, Festus.

P.S. If you all don't hear from me any more, don't worry, I've just been wisked away by an infallible moderator.

 

[Wolseley]

All you did is rationalize away the Catholic Church flip-flopping on official doctrine and pope infallibility but just saying, oh yeah in retrospect, all those numerous Church doctrines that were recanted and revised were not official they were just private opinions. How convienent!!

That's your opinion.

Baloney! They were official doctrines of the Catholic Church, and the proof is in the blood that was spilt over them, and you know that...sheriff!

And that's your opinion as well.

Now, you seem to be hiding behind your badge to make your debate points in an unauthorized room, as moderator, just to show-off your big six guns to your cheerleaders. lol

Nah. My cheerleaders love me, guns or no guns.

I tell you what...you answer my points on the previous thread, that you left unanswered, and lets do it in a Christian manner without you flashing your badge or six guns around.

You cut and paste what you want addressed in Interfaith, and we'll go from there. But remember----I'm a Moderator in Interfaith, too.

And I'll go in any room you choose, Festus.

That's Deppity Festus, stranger.

P.S. If you all don't hear from me any more, don't worry, I've just been wisked away by an infallible moderator.

It's that feeling of absolute, total power.....

(deep breath, loud sigh)

MAN, I love it so!!!!

 

[VOW]

Originally posted by AnglicanFather
I will certianly not deny that it is possible for Mary or the Saints to intercede for us, I will say this: we don't need to ask them. First, God knows our needs, and has the answers planned before we can even ask. Second, we are worthy to approach God trough Christ the Lord, and to make our petition through him, for he is (according to Scripture) our *only* mediator and advocate.

To Fr Rob:

Oh, there's no argument at all, that we don't NEED to go to the Saints and to Mary to ask them to pray for us. But so many of the Saints were known for, and honored for their rich prayer lives, and their compassion and giving nature to others. Surely they wouldn't MIND praying for us poor mortals still on earth!

But moreso than that, I want to direct you to the story I related earlier, about Mary intervening, and indirectly being responsible for the beginning of Jesus's ministry. I'm talking of course about the Wedding at Cana. The hosts of the wedding party could themselves have gone to Jesus and asked for His help. Of course, they had no idea that He was the Messiah. And even if they HAD known of the special abilities of Jesus, isn't it reasonable to assume that He would have refused them just as He refused His mother? "It's not my time" was His answer.

Mary became aware of the problem, and she went to her Son. And EVEN THOUGH HE SAID, "IT'S NOT MY TIME," He performed the miracle anyway.

No, we don't need to go to Mary and ask her to intercede for us. But it's rather nice to know that she can, and she will.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[Evan]

Originally posted by Wolseley

You cut and paste what you want addressed in Interfaith, and we'll go from there. But remember----I'm a Moderator in Interfaith, too.

Done Wolseley! You will find it under Ex Cathedra Papal Infallibility. But remember----I don't answer to a Pope.

Vow, you are welcome to come also and just cheer for Wolseley if you like, or maybe just expound on the extreme complexity's of Mary that us simple Christians can't find in our bibles.

 

[Evan]

Well Wolseley,

I see you have not only not answered my post as you promised you would but rather you have chosen to scramble-up my post with another similar post and have now hopelessly mixed-up the two.

Your popish bully tactics don't scare me Wolseley.

You are an excellent example of why I praise God for the Reformation and that excellent foundation for the founding of our country. King James complained against our pilgrim puritan fathers and their demands that people elect their magistrates and church elders by saying "No Bishop, No King."

He was so right! They do go hand in hand. They are both tyrant bullies and they feed on each other, as you have demonstrated so well over the past few days. You probably think the criticism's that the Catholic Church is currently experiencing today is unjust and unwarranted. But Cardinal Law and others are simply acting like the tyrants of old. They have learned well, as you have.

They feel they owe no responsibility to report to their people as they "lord over" their flocks. They are the last remnants of tyranny in Western Christendom and may God be pleased to finish their reign soon.

You didn't allow me to say it in my thread before you destroyed it, so I will say it here (you will find that you cannot silence us just like you could not silence our fathers):

The two Ex Cathedra's of Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of Mary will fall as errors as all the other numerous staggering papal errors that have fallen as I listed for you earlier. Mary was born in sin like the rest of us and paid the price of death for her original as well as her committed sins during her lifetime.

God will bring these heresy's down just like He has brought down other heresy's. The day is coming when people will look back at these doctrines with astonishment that people actually believed them, just like we do today on all the other papal errors and heresy's jamed down people's throats throughout history. We speak out against them and condemn them for what they are, man made fables and errors that have caused countless millions to fall and turn to Mary instead of the glorious Son of God who deserves all glory and honor and will share it with no other.

Now Wolseley, I have complained about your behavior and I hope you are stopped. But if not, fear not, you will be stopped soon.

May God be pleased to open your eyes to His wonderful Son and may you soon praise and honor Him and only Him as your sister Mary did. Because He really is just That Great!

 

[VOW]

To Evan:

How do you even KNOW Wolseley was the one who combined the threads? Sheesh?

And in case you are STILL interested in that information about Mary, I just made quite a lengthy post in the thread at the top of this board, called "Frequently Asked Questions of Catholics." I've explained why the Church teaches that Mary is "the New Eve," and also "the New Ark of the Covenant," AND I even provided Scriptural support.


Peace,
~VOW

 

[kern]

Evan,

Please stop posting your paranoid garbage on the One Bread, One Body forum. That's what Rapture Ready and That Other Board are for.

Thank you,
-Chris

 

[Wolseley]

Evan will be on hiatus for a while; he was warned.

 

[kern]

I wonder if it's a good idea to delete the posts too? This can create a conspiracy theoriest atmosphere of "what are they trying to hide? What don't they want me to see?" Although I suppose the people who would ask questions like this wouldn't change any opinions if the posts were left there, so maybe it's best the way it is...

-Chris

 

[VOW]

OH but Kern:

It's only ONE post..........repeated over, and over, and over, and over...

Shame on me.


Peace and repentance,
~VOW

 

[kern]

-Chris