Mary - Christian Prototype

[paul becke]

Is this thread in English or Greek or Latin? Does every word in a translation map to one unique word in another language? The most common use of person is to reference a human. As person is defined according to the internet search.

per·son
ˈpərs(ə)n/
noun
noun: person; plural noun: people; plural noun: persons; noun: first person; noun: second person; noun: third person
1.a human being regarded as an individual.
"the porter was the last person to see her"
synonyms: human being, individual, man/woman, child, human, being, (living) soul, mortal, creature; More
used in legal or formal contexts to refer to an unspecified individual.
"the entrance fee is $10.00 per person"
an individual characterized by a preference or liking for a specified thing.
"she's not a cat person"
an individual's body.
"I have publicity photographs on my person at all times"
a character in a play or story.
"his previous roles in the person of a fallible cop"
2.GRAMMAR
a category used in the classification of pronouns, possessive determiners, and verb forms, according to whether they indicate the speaker first person, the addressee second person, or a third party third person.
3.CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY
each of the three modes of being of God, namely the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, who together constitute the Trinity.
Origin
View attachment 190980
Middle English: from Old French persone, from Latin persona ‘actor's mask, character in a play,’ later ‘human being.’​

So you think a monkey that has a face and appears as a person, is a person? Do you also believe in evolution? If one can't imagine monkeys in the same order as humans, than I can't imagine God and men in the same order. As names carry weight, I will never say God is a person, even though he is 3 "persons" in one. Despite the origin of the word person and some older Greek word having a wider meaning, today person does not carry as broad of a meaning as you promote.

Lastly you argue this to avoid the main point of my initial post that men are above angels.

No, you are correct, your posts have not used legalism in repeated arguments over OLD meanings of person to avoid the point of my post that angels and men are of different positions/classes. Take a look at the original statement that you tirelessly argue over, I think you have forgotten what it was; "Indeed, the first person in the Bible to venerate her is St. Gabriel the Archangel."

Now as I called attention to, we are discussing here in English. The statement you made was NOT a quote of scripture that needed to be translated into English. You just made a statement that the angel Gabriel was a person. I argued to make distinction between men and angels by saying an angel is not a person, even while you acknowledge that the modern definition of person is different than what word might have been used 2000 years ago.

We are living in the 21st century. We on this board communicate in English. I think you read too much Greek and have lost the ability to communicate in English as English is used in the modern world.



The purpose of translating scripture into native languages is to make the study of God's word easier for the masses. If you think the ability of translations to be insufficient than you should understand that Jesus' words are not recorded in the original language spoken. You have no pure argument that translations are incapable of expressing what God wants us to know in his word because Jesus' own words are only available in a translation.

Now ponder this; who instituted the various languages that are spoken? Now I ask what was the great commission that Jesus gave us? If we are to preach the good news to the whole world, then that involves translations, not forcing people to learn a certain language that you prefer.

Further, I want to impress on you that the words contained in a language do not rule over the whole set of possible ideas/concepts that can be expressed in a language. We can impart the meaning of a concept even if a language does not have an explicit word for such an idea or concept. Scripture is ripe with these as much in scripture deals with the heavenly while words have meaning from earthly origins. And so Jesus spoke in parables to use earthly ideas to teach of heavenly ideas.

Now a specific example where words in a language do not rule over the expressible ideas. The OT was originally written in Hebrew which did not have a word for what we now call a soul in English. Does that mean that they did not have a soul or comprehension of a spiritual part of them that lives after their bodies had died?

Lastly I will just remind you what you also avoid in your red herring, discussing translations, meanings and etymology of words instead of the point of the argument.

 

[paul becke]

AnticipateHisComing, it is important that you take on board the egregious significance of personhood and likewise of the significance of the word, 'face', particularly in scripture.

Elijah, standing at the mouth of a cave, on God's instructions, and veiling his own face, (presumably as unworthy in the context), was only permitted to see God's back, as he passed by, not his face. The credible NDE'ers confirm that they were not permitted to make out God's face, which shone with such a brilliant light that they were unable to discern his facial features, being assured however that they would see him face-to-face in heaven.

As for personhood, like our face, it denotes the most profoundly and distinctively-personal identity. Monkeys, dogs, etc tend to have extremely similar facial expressions, and yet each has its own personality, although so inferior identity-wise as to be of a different kind. They have a measure of memory and of understanding, but they lack the kind of free will that we have - even though we must rely on God's grace for it to function properly.

 

[paul becke]

AnticipateHisComing, it is important that you take on board the egregious significance of personhood and likewise of the significance of the word, 'face', particularly in scripture.

Elijah, standing at the mouth of a cave, on God's instructions, and veiling his own face, (presumably as unworthy in the context), was only permitted to see God's back, as he passed by, not his face. The credible NDE'ers confirm that they were not permitted to make out God's face, which shone with such a brilliant light that they were unable to discern his facial features, being assured however that they would see him face-to-face in heaven.

As for personhood, like our face, it denotes the most profoundly and distinctively-personal identity. Monkeys, dogs, etc tend to have extremely similar facial expressions, and yet each has its own personality, although so inferior identity-wise as to be of a different kind. They have a measure of memory and of understanding, but they lack the kind of free will that we have - even though we must rely on God's grace for it to function properly.