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ivebeenshown

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Those who keep the commandments of Christ are not Mary's seed, they are counted as Israel's seed -- heirs according to the promise.

Revelation 12
1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:


Genesis 37
3Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colours. 4And when his brethren saw that their father loved him more than all his brethren, they hated him, and could not speak peaceably unto him. 5And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it his brethren: and they hated him yet the more. 6And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed: 7For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf. 8And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words. 9And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. 10And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?


The mother of all those who keep the commandments of Jesus is the Heavenly Jerusalem -- God's Israel.

Galatians 4
26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.


Also, Jesus himself did not revere his own mother Mary on a level higher than any other who keeps his commandments.

Matthew 12
50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


Mary was the vessel which God used to bring forth our savior. She is not married to Jesus, our King, who is the King of us all, and of heaven, and the angels, so she cannot be Queen.

Matthew 22
30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Mark 12
25For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.


Mary cannot, and will never be, the Queen of heaven, or of the angels. To consider her as such is to consider every other saint as Queen equally.

Dear LORD, may all the glory and all the authority be yours. May your gift of redemption and salvation be recognized as the only means of deliverance for all of our souls.

DEFINITION OF QUEEN MOTHER: A queen consort (wife of a king) who was then queen dowager (widowed queen) but given the seat of queenship by her son who succeeds the king.

1 Kings 11
19And Hadad found great favour in the sight of Pharaoh, so that he gave him to wife the sister of his own wife, the sister of Tahpenes the queen.


Here, Tahpenes is the wife of Pharaoh, a King, making her Queen.

This 'Gebhirah' is not a queen mother...
so Gebhirah does not even necessarily mean 'queen mother'...

1 Kings 15
13And also Maachah his mother, even her he removed from being queen, because she had made an idol in a grove; and Asa destroyed her idol, and burnt it by the brook Kidron.


2 Chronicles 15
16And also concerning Maachah the mother of Asa the king, he removed her from being queen, because she had made an idol in a grove: and Asa cut down her idol, and stamped it, and burnt it at the brook Kidron.


Maachah is the mother of Abijam, the grandmother of Asa, so here we have a 'queen grandmother', but as we can see, Abijam was the son of Rehoboam who reigned as King over Judah. (1 Kings 14:31) Therefore, Maachah was wife of the king Rehoboam, and became queen mother for three years due to Abijam, and queen grandmother due to Asa, who removed her from her spot.

This 'Gebhirah' was a queen grandmother who was married to the king Rehoboam...

2 Kings 10
13Jehu met with the brethren of Ahaziah king of Judah, and said, Who are ye? And they answered, We are the brethren of Ahaziah; and we go down to salute the children of the king and the children of the queen.

Ahaziah was the son of Jehoram (2 Kings 8:25),and the queen mentioned here is Athaliah the mother of Ahaziah (2 Kings 8:26.) Jehoram's wife was the daughter of Ahab (2 Kings 8:18), Ahab was the son of Omri (1 Kings 16:30) therefore, Jehoram's wife was the daughter of Omri, which was Athaliah (2 Kings 8:26.)

This 'Gebhirah' was a queen mother who was the wife of a King... who actually took the position of queen regnant and was thereafter slain.
Jeremiah 13
18Say unto the king and to the queen, Humble yourselves, sit down: for your principalities shall come down, even the crown of your glory.

Jeremiah 29
2(After that Jeconiah the king, and the queen, and the eunuchs, the princes of Judah and Jerusalem, and the carpenters, and the smiths, were departed from Jerusalem: )


Both of these mention Jeconiah the king and the queen... the queen here is Jeconiah's mother Nehushta, daughter of Elnathan (2 Kings 24:8.) Jeconiah is the son of Jehoiakim (Eliakim) therefore Nehushta was the wife of king Jehoiakim.

Mary was not the wife of a king... the five 'queen mothers' mentioned above were all Queen Dowagers for they were the wives of kings at one point... only a Queen Dowager may become Queen Mother.
 
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Secundulus

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Did Israel suffer birth pangs? No it didn't. Mary gave birth to Jesus by the will of God.

Revelation 12 speaks of Mary.

Revelation 12:2
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Did Israel flee into the wilderness after the birth of the Christ? No it didn't. Mary fled through the wilderness into Egypt.

Revelation 12 speaks of Mary.

Revelation 12:6
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred[ and] threescore days.
 
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Christos Anesti

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If the Theotokos isn't the queen of heaven who sits at the right hand of Christ our God then who is? This psalm has always been understood by the Church as ultimatly pointing to Christ. It mentions a queen at his right hand.

Pslam 45 KJV:

"6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
7Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
8All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad. 9Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir."
 
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ivebeenshown

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Did Israel suffer birth pangs? No it didn't. Mary gave birth to Jesus by the will of God.

Revelation 12 speaks of Mary.

Revelation 12:2
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

This point still stands: those who keep the commandments of Christ are not the seed of Mary, but counted for the seed of Abraham as heirs according to the promise.

This is the correct reference to travailing woman bringing forth:

Isaiah 66
8Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.


If the Theotokos isn't the queen of heaven who sits at the right hand of Christ our God then who is? This psalm has always been understood by the Church as ultimatly pointing to Christ. It mentions a queen at his right hand.

Firstly, it says the queen did stand (past) at his right hand and was adorned in gold. Also, earlier in the Psalm, it says this: 4And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things. If you attribute this to Mary, you are saying Mary teaches terrible things to Christ.

Remember how the nation of Israel was called a harlot in Ezekiel? She was adorned in gold and pearls and she had committed fornication with the nations? That is a more likely reference for this Psalm than Mary. God's people taught the LORD that they were harlots which sought the works of their own hands including graven images and idols.
 
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Pythons

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According to Acts 1: 1 - 3 those who follow the determinations of the Apostolic Church...
...Are the ones "keeping the commandments of Christ".
...The way I see it the EO and R.C.C. are the only two that can lay claim.
 
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ivebeenshown

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I don't have time to respond to everything, but I was wondering if you could tell me what role Bathsheba held in Solomon's Court?

Solomon's wife, the queen, was the daughter of the Pharaoh. If Bathsheba was the queen, why wasn't her seat already set up at Solomon's right hand? Answer: it was just temporary seat, not a throne.

1 Kings 9
16For Pharaoh king of Egypt had gone up, and taken Gezer, and burnt it with fire, and slain the Canaanites that dwelt in the city, and given it for a present unto his daughter, Solomon's wife.


The LORD Jesus's right hand are those blessed of the Father...

Matthew 25
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


...which is why Jesus says this:

Matthew 12
50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


Also, the church is Christ's bride -- which is heavenly Jerusalem, the mother of us all.

According to Acts 1: 1 - 3 those who follow the determinations of the Apostolic Church...
...Are the ones "keeping the commandments of Christ".
...The way I see it the EO and R.C.C. are the only two that can lay claim.

The only two? What's that? I thought the Romish Papacy claimed that it was the only true church.
 
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revanneosl

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In the ancient traditions upon which these metaphors for speaking about Jesus and Mary are based, the mother of the King stands as Queen until the King marries his bride.

God is Jesus' father and Mary is his mother.

Jesus Christ is King and his spouse will be Queen, when the wedding feast ushers in the consummation of all things.

Until that time, Jesus' mother is Queen.

If it makes you feel better, you may refer to her as the dowager Queen of Heaven. However, that would imply that God the Father is dead, so you may want to avoid it.
 
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ivebeenshown

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Jesus is not like unto Solomon. Solomon had both a human mother and a human father.

Jesus acknowledged that anyone who keeps the commandments of his Father is his brother, sister, and mother. Everyone who keeps such commandment embodies the the true church -- Heavenly Jerusalem.
 
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ivebeenshown

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Jesus Christ is King.

That makes His Mother, Mary, the Theotokos, Queen Mother by definition.

If Jesus Christ is God, then it is dogmatically correct to say Mary is the Mother of God.

Matthew 12
48But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


It is just as correct to call Mary Magdalene the Queen of Heaven and the angels if it is correct to call Mary, the wife of Joseph such.
 
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laconicstudent

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St. Mary Magdalene isn't the Mother of God.....
 
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ivebeenshown

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But I also follow scripture in keeping the holy tradition of the Church.

Colossians 2
8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.


Christ said that anyone who does the will of his Father, the same is his mother.

Mark 7
9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.


The Jews distorted the commandments of God with tradition. Paul had to correct all of the earliest churches. The churches today are no different, including RCC and EO.

St. Mary Magdalene isn't the Mother of God.....

That sounds like the opposite of what Jesus said when he said "Who is my mother? Whosoever does the will of my Father, the same is my mother." To acknowledge her as a saint is to acknowledge that she does the will of the Father. Jesus said such people are his mother.

Scripture should be read,studied,and interpreted within the holy tradition of the Church.

Isn't that why William Tyndale was burned at the stake? The Roman and Orthodox establishment cannot be trusted any more than the Pharisees.
 
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Fireinfolding

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...which is why Jesus says this:

Matthew 12
50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Also, the church is Christ's bride -- which is heavenly Jerusalem, the mother of us all.

Heres a woman too (his disciples are likened to)

John 16:21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.


Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Genesis 37:8-10

8 His brothers said to him, "Do you intend to reign over us? Will you actually rule us?" And they hated him all the more because of his dream and what he had said.
9 Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. "Listen," he said, "I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me."
10 When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, "What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow down to the ground before you?"

Revelation 12

1A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.

The woman is Rachael .

Matthew 2:17-19

17Then what was said through the prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled:
18"A voice is heard in Ramah,
weeping and great mourning,
Rachel weeping for her children
and refusing to be comforted,
because they are no more."
Jeremiah 31:15-16

15 This is what the LORD says:
"A voice is heard in Ramah,
mourning and great weeping,
Rachel weeping for her children
and refusing to be comforted,
because her children are no more."

16 This is what the LORD says:
"Restrain your voice from weeping
and your eyes from tears,
for your work will be rewarded,"
declares the LORD.
"They will return from the land of the enemy.
 
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Fireinfolding

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LittleLambofJesus

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