Mary cannot be Queen. (2)

[Montalban]

Agree, but those are earthly Queens. This one is claimed to be the Queen of Heaven. Are not Queens married to Kings?

A queen doesn't have to be married to be a queen. Elizabeth I of England was never married.

Is Joseph also made King of Heaven? Because mary calls Joseph the Father of Jesus. Joseph is also in lineage of King David.

How many kings do you want?

Will Mary reign as Queen on Earth in the millenium? You would think the Bible would announce such a Revelation as the Queen of Heaven. Oh wait it does!

Jeremiah 7:18
The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the QUEEN of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

Jeremiah 44:18
But since we left off to burn incense to the QUEEN of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.

Uh Oh, not good. Idol worship.

I'm not aware of venerating Mary as the same as idol worship.

Even she noted that generations would call her blessed.

Whilst she is a human she's had a role that no other human ever has had.

If you know of any other woman who carried to term Jesus Christ, then let me know.

 

[AveMaria_45]

the only way it can be idol worship is if Mary was an idol.
are protestants calling Mary an idol?

 

[Montalban]

 

[bbbbbbb]

The theology of the queenhood of Mary is complex to say the least. God (the Father) is viewed as King. Next to Him is Mary, who is Queen, but not His wife. In fact, she is His daughter, but not really, because that would assign her a role as Princess, at least as long as the King is alive. Because God (the Father) can and will never die, his daughter, legally, could never become Queen, yes she is believed to be Queen. As Queen she is co-equal with the King and not in any meaningful way inferior, yet she is actually inferior, being His daughter and having been created by Him. Nevertheless, she is elevated to a position of honor and glory equivalent to the King.

Thus, heaven has two regents on their thrones - the King (God, the Father) and the Queen (the Mother of God). Is this not confusing and tortured theology?

 

[Zeek]

the only way it can be idol worship is if Mary was an idol.
are protestants calling Mary an idol?

Mary is the mother of the L-rd...what some people object to is the way Mary has been elevated to a position she doesn't hold, and the way she has been artificially idolised....and there are plenty of garish plastic and plaster images of Mary adorning altars everywhere...which for some people has an idolatrous edge to it.

 

[Rhamiel]

The theology of the queenhood of Mary is complex to say the least. God (the Father) is viewed as King. Next to Him is Mary, who is Queen, but not His wife. In fact, she is His daughter, but not really, because that would assign her a role as Princess, at least as long as the King is alive. Because God (the Father) can and will never die, his daughter, legally, could never become Queen, yes she is believed to be Queen. As Queen she is co-equal with the King and not in any meaningful way inferior, yet she is actually inferior, being His daughter and having been created by Him. Nevertheless, she is elevated to a position of honor and glory equivalent to the King.

Thus, heaven has two regents on their thrones - the King (God, the Father) and the Queen (the Mother of God). Is this not confusing and tortured theology?

the theology is based on Christ being King and of the house of David
when Solomon was King he had a a throne set next to his own throne for his mother, it is never mentioned that Bathsheba had a thone next to king David her husband but only when her son Solomon became King did she get a throne
In Spain for a while the King and Queen were co-equal because each was the head of a seperate state that was joined together by their marriage, but other then that I know of no monarchy where the Queen is seen as the equal of her King
Catholics and Orthodox do not view the Queenship of Mary as being of the same nature of the Kingship of Christ
Christ is Lord and Mary is only Queen in her relation to Christ, and in her humility ofcouse, because it is said that God will exalt the humble to shame the strong, Mary as being the most humble servant of Christ will be exalted more then any other human

 

[AveMaria_45]

YouTube - Queen of Heaven

 

[AveMaria_45]

Is Mary's Queenship Biblical?
By Edward P. Sri

Mary’s title as "Queen of Heaven and Earth" is a great scandal to many non-Catholic Christians. After all, the Bible doesn’t mention anything about there being a queen in God’s kingdom. All this royal attention Catholics give to Mary—whether it’s singing "Hail, holy queen enthroned above" or portraying Mary in statues and paintings with a crown on her head—seems to many non-Catholics to detract from the royalty of Christ, who alone is King of Kings. Besides, how could Mary be a queen, since she is not the wife of the Jesus but only his mother?

One biblical theme sheds light on these questions and serves as a key for unlocking the mystery of Mary’s queenship: the Old Testament tradition of the "queen mother" in the Davidic kingdom.

In the monarchy of King David, as well as in other ancient kingdoms of the Near East, the mother of the ruling king held an important office in the royal court and played a key part in the process of dynastic succession. In fact, the king’s mother ruled as queen, not his wife.

The great pre-eminence of the king’s mother may seem odd from our modern Western perspective, in which we think of a queen as being the wife of a king. However, recall that most ancient Near-Eastern kings practiced polygamy. King Solomon had seven hundred wives (1 Kgs. 11:3)—imagine the chaos in the royal court if all seven hundred were awarded the queenship! But since each king had only one mother, one can see the practical wisdom in bestowing the queenship upon her.

A number of Old Testament passages reflect the important role of the queen mother in the Davidic kingdom. For example, almost every time the narrative of 1 and 2 Kings introduces a new monarch in Judah, it mentions the king’s mother as well, showing the mother’s intimate involvement in her royal son’s reign. Similarly, the queen mother is listed among the members of the royal court whom king Jehoiachin surrendered to the king of Babylon in 2 Kings 24:12.

Her royal office is also described by the prophet Jeremiah, who tells how the queen mother possessed a throne and a crown, symbolic of her position of authority in the kingdom: "Say to the king and the queen mother: ‘Take a lowly seat, for your beautiful crown has come down from your head. . . . Lift up your eyes and see those who come from the north. Where is the flock that was given you, your beautiful flock?’" (Jer. 13:18, 20). It is significant that God directed this oracle about the upcoming fall of Judah to both the king and his mother. Addressing both king and queen mother, Jeremiah portrays her as sharing in her son’s rule over the kingdom.

Probably the clearest example of the queen mother’s role is that of Bathsheba, wife of David and mother of Solomon. Scholars have noted the excellence of Bathsheba’s position in the kingdom once she became queen mother during Solomon’s rule. Compare the humble attitude of Bathsheba as spouse of King David (1 Kgs. 1:16–17, 31) with her majestic dignity as mother of the next king, Solomon (1 Kgs. 2:19–20). As spouse of the king, Bathsheba bows with her face to the ground and does obeisance to her husband, David, upon entering his royal chamber. In striking contrast, after her son Solomon assumed the throne and she became queen mother, Bathsheba receives a glorious reception upon meeting with her royal son:

"So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. And the king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne and had a seat brought for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right. Then she said, ‘I have one small request to make of you; do not refuse me.’ And the king said to her, ‘Make your request, my mother; for I will not refuse you’" (1 Kgs. 2:19–20).

This account reveals the sovereign prerogatives of the queen mother. Note how the king rises and bows as she enters. Bathsheba’s seat at the king’s right hand has the greatest significance. In the Bible, the right hand is the place of ultimate honor. This is seen in particular in the messianic Psalm 110 ("Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool"). In fact, many New Testament passages refer to the right-hand imagery of Psalm 110 to show Christ’s divinity and his reign with the Father over the whole universe (e.g., Hebrews 1:13). Thus, the queen mother sitting at the king’s right hand symbolizes her sharing in the king’s royal authority and illustrates how she holds the most important position in the kingdom, second only to the king.

This passage regarding Bathsheba also shows how the queen mother served as an advocate for the people, carrying petitions to the king. In 1 Kings 2:17, Adonijah asks Bathsheba to take a petition for him to King Solomon. He says to her: "Pray ask King Solomon—he will not refuse you—to give me Abishag the Shunammite as my wife" (1 Kgs. 2:17). It is clear that Adonijah recognizes the queen mother’s position of influence over the king, so he confidently turns to Bathsheba as an intercessor for his request.

A few Old Testament prophecies incorporate the queen mother tradition when telling of the future Messiah. One example is Isaiah 7:14, which originated during a time of dynastic crisis in Judah when Syria and Israel were threatening Jerusalem and plotting to overthrow King Ahaz. God offers Ahaz a sign that the kingdom will continue: "Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son and shall call his name Emmanuel" (Isa. 7:13–14).

On one level, this passage points to the next king (Hezekiah) as a pledge that the Davidic dynasty will continue despite the threats of invading armies. At the same time, the royal son who is to be named "Emmanuel" points to the future messianic king (cf., Isa. 9:6–7, 11:1–2). This is why the New Testament says Jesus fulfills this prophecy from Isaiah (Matt. 1:23).

For our purposes we should note how this prophecy links the mother to her royal son. Since the oracle is addressed specifically to the Davidic household and concerns the continuation of the dynasty, the young woman bearing forth the royal son would be understood as a queen mother. This has implications for our understanding of Mary. Since the mother of the king always ruled as queen mother, we should expect to find the mother of the messianic king playing the role of the true queen mother in the everlasting Kingdom of God.

With this Old Testament background, we can now more clearly see how the New Testament portrays Mary in light of the queen mother tradition.

The Gospel of Matthew has often been called the "Gospel of the Kingdom." Matthew emphasizes that Jesus is "the Son of David," who is the true King of the Jews establishing the "Kingdom of Heaven." With all this kingly imagery, it should not be surprising to find queen mother themes as well.

Right away, Matthew shows explicitly how the infant Jesus is the "Emmanuel" child as prophesied in Isaiah 7:14 (Matt. 1:23). As we saw above, this prophecy links the royal messianic child with his queen mother. Further, Matthew singles out the intimate relationship between the mother and her royal son by using the phrase "the child and his mother" five times in the first two chapters, recalling the close association between queen mother and royal son as described in the Books of Kings. Just as the queen mother was constantly mentioned alongside the Judean kings in 1 and 2 Kings, so Mary is frequently mentioned alongside her royal son, Jesus, in Matthew’s infancy narrative (Matt. 1:18; 2:11, 13, 14, 20, 21).

We find Mary portrayed against the background of Davidic kingdom motifs in Luke’s Gospel as well, especially in his accounts of the Annunciation and Visitation. First, the angel Gabriel is said to appear to a virgin betrothed to a man "of the house of David" (1:27). Then the angel tells Mary, "And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there will be no end" (Luke 1:31–33).

Hear the strong Davidic overtones describing Mary and her royal son: a woman from the house of David giving birth to a son who will be the new king whose reign will never end. With echoes from the queen mother tradition of the Davidic kingdom and the mother-son prophecy of Isaiah 7:14, we can conclude that Mary is being given the vocation of queen mother.

Mary’s royal office is made even more explicit in Luke’s account of the Visitation. Elizabeth greets Mary with the title "the mother of my Lord" (Luke 1:43). This title is charged with great queenly significance. In the royal court language of the ancient NearEast, the title "Mother of my Lord" was used to address the queen mother of the reigning king (who himself was addressed as "my Lord"; cf., 2 Sam. 24:21). Thus with this title Elizabeth is recognizing the great dignity of Mary’s role as the royal mother of the king, Jesus.

Finally, Mary’s queenship can be seen in the great vision described in Revelation 12: "And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery" (Rev. 12:1–2). Who is this newborn child? He is described as the messianic king exercising his dominion. In verse 5, the author of Revelation chose the messianic Psalm 2 to describe how this child will "rule all the nations with a rod of iron" (Rev. 12:5, Ps. 2:9). This royal son is taken up to heaven to sit on a throne (Rev. 12:5), and he ushers in the kingdom of God by defeating the devil: "Now the kingdom of our God has come, for the accuser has been throne down" (12:10). Certainly, this newborn child is the royal Messiah, King Jesus.

In this light it is clear who this woman is who gave birth to the messiah: It is Mary. Some people have interpreted this woman in Revelation 12 as merely a symbol either for the Old Testament people of Israel or for the New Testament Church and therefore have concluded that the woman cannot be an individual (i.e., Mary). However, this "either-or" proposition is foreign to the biblical worldview, in which individuals often symbolically represent collective groups. For instance, Adam represented all humanity (Rom. 5:19), and Jacob stood for all of Israel (Ps. 44:4). Given this biblical notion called "corporate personality," the woman in Revelation 12 should be understood as both an individual (Mary) and a symbol for the people of God.

But for our purposes, once we see that this woman is Mary, the mother of Jesus, it is important to note how she is portrayed as queen in this passage. Her royal office is hinted at by the imagery of the sun, moon, and twelve stars, which recalls the Old Testament story of Joseph’s dream in which the sun, moon, and stars bow down before him, symbolizing his future authority (Gen. 37:9–11). Her queenship is made even clearer by the crown of twelve stars on her head. Just like the queen mother in Jeremiah 13:18, here Mary is wearing a crown, symbolizing her royal office in the kingdom of heaven. In sum, Revelation 12 portrays Mary as the new queen mother in the Kingdom of God, sharing in her son’s rule over the universe.

We have seen how the Old Testament queen mother tradition serves as an important background for understanding Mary’s royal office. Indeed, the New Testament portrays Mary as the queen mother par excellence. Thus, prayers, hymns, and art giving honor to Mary’s queenship are most fitting biblical responses for Christians. In honoring her as queen mother we do not take anything away from Christ’s glory, but rather we exalt him even more by recognizing the great work he has done in her and through her.

Understanding Mary as queen mother sheds light on her important intercessory role in the Christian life. Just like the queen mother of the Davidic kingdom, Mary serves as advocate for the people in the Kingdom of God today. Thus, we should approach our queen mother with confidence, knowing that she carries our petitions to her royal son and that he responds to her as Solomon did to Bathsheba: "I will never refuse you."

 

[AveMaria_45]

YouTube - LADY IN BLUE

 

[Zeek]

YouTube - Queen of Heaven

Watched the video prayer by Steve Silvin....Have to say that he is in grave error by saying of Mary that she is our advocate, hope, and refuge of sinners....she is not, the L-rd Jesus is, and this is just more sentimental nonsense.

 

[Zeek]

Is Mary's Queenship Biblical?
By Edward P. Sri

Mary’s title as "Queen of Heaven and Earth" is a great scandal to many non-Catholic Christians. After all, the Bible doesn’t mention anything about there being a queen in God’s kingdom. All this royal attention Catholics give to Mary—whether it’s singing "Hail, holy queen enthroned above" or portraying Mary in statues and paintings with a crown on her head—seems to many non-Catholics to detract from the royalty of Christ, who alone is King of Kings.

He got that right. ...and goes on to prove it with the comment below.

Understanding Mary as queen mother sheds light on her important intercessory role in the Christian life. Just like the queen mother of the Davidic kingdom, Mary serves as advocate for the people in the Kingdom of God today. Thus, we should approach our queen mother with confidence, knowing that she carries our petitions to her royal son and that he responds to her as Solomon did to Bathsheba: "I will never refuse you."

Absolutely non-Scriptural....Mary is not our advocate....this teaching is a pastiche of:-

Ephesians 3:11 This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him.

Hebrews 10: 19 Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

1John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

 

[justinangel]

When did people begin calling Mary the queen of heaven? What's the history?

Part l.

But you, Bethlehem-Ephratha, too small to be among the clans of Judah, From you shall come forth for me one who is to be the ruler of Israel; Whose origin is from old, from anciet times.
Micah 5, 1

In the historic period of ancient Israel there stood a second throne next to the one occupied by the king. This throne on his right was not reserved for any of the king's wives, but for his mother. The position of the queen mother (gebirah) was a privileged one of the highest honour and authority for a woman of the kingdom of Judah. The gebirah was an extremely powerful and influential figure in ancient Jewish culture; she directed all domestic matters in the royal house of David and had the final word among all the female members of the palace - including the king's wives. Unlike the queen mother, the king's spouses were denied the prerogatives of a counselor and an advocate, being merely assigned the primary task of bearing and raising the king's offspring, notably his sons and potential heirs to the throne. The queen mother alone acted as advisor to her son and as advocate to the people. Any royal subject who had a petition to present or sought an audience with the king was formally expected to approach him through the mediation of his mother and by her patronage. This was the case when Adonijah sought a high-ranking bride from his step-brother King Solomon (1 Kgs 2:19-21). Now on this occasion Bathsheba acted purely out of formality while expecting her son to refuse her request, for they both suspected that the man's true intention was hostile to the king's reign. Anyway, the gebirah was the most important and highly respected woman in the ancient kingdom of Judah, and she wielded the greatest influence over the king (Ps 45: 12,17). It could be that Solomon's gesture of placing a throne for his mother at the right of his foreshadows the Assumption of Mary and her Coronation in Heaven, where she acts as our queen mother and advocate alongside the throne of her divine Son in his glorified humanity in the order of grace as decreed by our heavenly Father (Mk 10:40).

They were overjoyed at seeing the star, and on entering the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary. They prostrated themselves and did him homage.
Matthew 2, 10-11

It does appear that the Judeo-Christians of the nascent church in Palestine perceived Mary as a type of gebirah of the kingdom of Judah and saw the fulfillment of this royal institution in her divine maternity (Lk 1:30-33). Certainly Matthew did not have to record Mary's presence in the house when the Magi arrived to pay Jesus homage. One doubts the evangelist was concerned with the practical literary task of providing more detail to the scene of his narrative as any typical author of a story would be, considering he was inspired by the Holy Spirit - the principal Author of the sacred text - for the sole purpose of revealing an ineffable divine mystery. On the contrary, Matthew affirmed what the Jewish Christians had already traditionally believed about Mary in the economy of salvation, and so he especially mentioned the fact that the three kings saw Jesus together with his mother in her rightful place. Mind you, on this occasion Mary was graced with the highest privilege that any woman could possibly ever receive, and that was her lap served as our Lord and King's throne - which appropriately demands our Blessed Lady's bodily Assumption into Heaven. On appearing to Mary on that morning in the month of Elul, the angel Gabriel said to Mary (Lk 1:28): "The Lord is with you." We can be sure that the first followers of Jesus in Palestine would have taken offense just by the thought of the Magi dismissing Mary's maternal right and circumventing her royal authority. Such indifference on their part would have been an affront to her royal dignity. Matthew mentioned Mary being with Jesus to underscore the truth that it must be through the King's Mother that anyone should gain an audience with the King and present themselves to him to obtain his favour most effectively.

"Raised to heaven, she remains for the human race an unconquerable rampart, interceding for us before her Son and God."
Theoteknos of Livias, Assumption, 291 {ante A.D. 560}

Pax Christu
J.A.

 

[justinangel]

When did people begin calling Mary the queen of heaven? What's the history?

Part ll.

At your right hand stands the queen in gold of Ophir
Psalm 45

The Judeo-Christians in Palestine unquestionably acknowledged Mary's royal personage and prerogatives by right of her divine motherhood in tune with their ancestral religious sensibilities and in keeping with their past Judaic heritage. Even today Jews who convert to Christianity regard their newly acquired faith as a fulfillment of their original one. They do not feel that they have embraced an entirely new and different religion. Thus the first Christian converts in apostolic time held the Mother of their Lord (Adonis) in the highest esteem, as a woman whose efficacious patronage must not be ignored, if they ever hoped to have a better chance of receiving the King's favour and having their petitions heard in supplication for the signal graces they sought to receive. Their deferential disposition is expressed in the words of Mary's cousin Elizabeth (Lk 1:43): "How does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" Our Blessed Lady's advocacy and mediation by stewardship of divine grace were prerogatives of hers treasured by the nascent Christian community, whose members felt honoured that the Mother of their Lord should condescend to them by being attentive to their spiritual needs and humble supplications while pleading on their behalf before the throne of her divine Son in Heaven. The Gospel of Luke was written about twelve years after Mary's transition into Heaven.

Mary did gain much merit in God's sight by freely consenting to be the mother of his Only-begotten Son (Lk 1:35) by her act of faith working through love (Gal 5:5-6): He who is the Source of all grace and the Principle of merit. By now the faithful in Jerusalem would have been familiar with the preaching of James (5:16): "The fervent prayers of a righteous person avail much." Who could be more righteous before Christ other than the pure and undefiled Ark of the New Covenant as typified in Mary by Luke in his Gospel with reference to the second Book of Samuel. The idea of Mary being the Dispensatrix of Grace germinated in the Judeo-Christian community of apostolic time and was acknowledged by the evangelist before he picked up his pen. He writes through the voice of Elizabeth (1:44): "For when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the child in my womb leaped for joy." John the Baptist was sanctified in his mother's womb by the grace of God at that precise moment through Mary's mediation in preparation for his ministry of immediately heralding the coming of Christ. It was the sound of Mary's greeting that had indirectly caused the infant to stir. As our advocate, Mary continues to be perceived as a physical channel of divine grace (cf. Eph 3:2; 1 Pet 4:10) which originates from her divine Son, our Lord and King. The contemporary dictum "To Jesus through Mary" is nowhere better illustrated in Scripture than it is here in Luke's narrative of the Visitation.

"Hail to thee, Mary, Mother of God, to whom in towns and villages and island were founded churches of true believers."
St. Cyril of Alexandria, Homily 11 {ante A.D. 444}

Finally, the angel Gabriel did indeed acknowledge Mary's royal maternal dignity when he greeted her with these words: "Hail, O highly favoured one" (Lk 1:28). In the original Greek we have Chaire kecharitomene. In ancient time this form of salutation (Hail / Chaire) was used when greeting or acclaiming persons of royalty. Only on one other occasion is this expression used in the New Testament, and that is when the Roman soldiers mock Jesus by placing a crown of thorns on his head and a reed in his hand because they heard he had claimed to be the king of the Jews. "Chaire basileus ton ioudaion" (Jn 19:3). At this point we should note that in the Judaic religious tradition Abraham's wife Sarah is seen to be a prefigurement of the gebirah of the kingdom of Judah. Originally her name was Sarai, but God told Abraham that from then on he should call his wife Sarah (Gen 17:15-6). In Hebrew Sarai means "princess" and Sarah means "exalted princess". Naturally a princess is exalted by becoming a queen. Sarah is regarded as the Matriarch of the Old Covenant and free woman of promise by having given birth to Isaac. In the Catholic tradition Mary is invoked as the Matriarch of the New Covenant and free woman of promise (cf. Gen 3:15) by having borne Jesus who was prefigured by Sarah's son Issac ( cf. Gen 22:2; Lk 2:35). Just as Abraham was instructed not to call his wife Sarai anymore, so too the angel Gabriel refrained from calling Mary by her given name at the first instant he greeted her at the Annunciation, for she had already found favour with God (Lk 1:30) and had been exalted to queenship by divine predestination. Scripture confirms the historic Christian tradition of the queenship of Mary as authentic and as having started in apostolic time in the Judeo-Christian community. Now in heaven Mary continues to act as our advocata and mediatrix of all grace by her prayerful intercession.

"From early times Christians have believed that she of whom was born the Son of the Most High received privileges of grace above all other beings created by God. And when Christians reflected on the intimate connection between the mother and her son, they readily acknowledged the supreme royal dignity of the Mother of God."
Pope Pius Xll, Ad Caeli Reginan

Pax Christu
J.A.

 

[sunlover1]

the only way it can be idol worship is if Mary was an idol.
are protestants calling Mary an idol?

Anyone or anything can become an idol.

Here is the original discussion:

Mary cannot be Queen.
Those who keep the commandments of Christ are not Mary's seed, they are counted as Israel's seed -- heirs according to the promise.

Revelation 12
1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Genesis 37
3Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colours. 4And when his brethren saw that their father loved him more than all his brethren, they hated him, and could not speak peaceably unto him. 5And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it his brethren: and they hated him yet the more. 6And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed: 7For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf. 8And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words. 9And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. 10And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

The mother of all those who keep the commandments of Jesus is the Heavenly Jerusalem -- God's Israel.

Galatians 4
26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Also, Jesus himself did not revere his own mother Mary on a level higher than any other who keeps his commandments.

Matthew 12
50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mary was the vessel which God used to bring forth our savior. She is not married to Jesus, our King, who is the King of us all, and of heaven, and the angels, so she cannot be Queen.

Matthew 22
30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Mark 12
25For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Mary cannot, and will never be, the Queen of heaven, or of the angels. To consider her as such is to consider every other saint as Queen equally.

Dear LORD, may all the glory and all the authority be yours. May your gift of redemption and salvation be recognized as the only means of deliverance for all of our souls.

DEFINITION OF QUEEN MOTHER: A queen consort (wife of a king) who was then queen dowager (widowed queen) but given the seat of queenship by her son who succeeds the king.

1 Kings 11
19And Hadad found great favour in the sight of Pharaoh, so that he gave him to wife the sister of his own wife, the sister of Tahpenes the queen.

Here, Tahpenes is the wife of Pharaoh, a King, making her Queen.

This 'Gebhirah' is not a queen mother... so Gebhirah does not even necessarily mean 'queen mother'...

1 Kings 15
13And also Maachah his mother, even her he removed from being queen, because she had made an idol in a grove; and Asa destroyed her idol, and burnt it by the brook Kidron.

2 Chronicles 15
16And also concerning Maachah the mother of Asa the king, he removed her from being queen, because she had made an idol in a grove: and Asa cut down her idol, and stamped it, and burnt it at the brook Kidron.

Maachah is the mother of Abijam, the grandmother of Asa, so here we have a 'queen grandmother', but as we can see, Abijam was the son of Rehoboam who reigned as King over Judah. (1 Kings 14:31) Therefore, Maachah was wife of the king Rehoboam, and became queen mother for three years due to Abijam, and queen grandmother due to Asa, who removed her from her spot.

This 'Gebhirah' was a queen grandmother who was married to the king Rehoboam...

2 Kings 10
13Jehu met with the brethren of Ahaziah king of Judah, and said, Who are ye? And they answered, We are the brethren of Ahaziah; and we go down to salute the children of the king and the children of the queen.

Ahaziah was the son of Jehoram (2 Kings 8:25),and the queen mentioned here is Athaliah the mother of Ahaziah (2 Kings 8:26.) Jehoram's wife was the daughter of Ahab (2 Kings 8:18), Ahab was the son of Omri (1 Kings 16:30) therefore, Jehoram's wife was the daughter of Omri, which was Athaliah (2 Kings 8:26.)

This 'Gebhirah' was a queen mother who was the wife of a King... who actually took the position of queen regnant and was thereafter slain.
Jeremiah 13
18Say unto the king and to the queen, Humble yourselves, sit down: for your principalities shall come down, even the crown of your glory.

Jeremiah 29
2(After that Jeconiah the king, and the queen, and the eunuchs, the princes of Judah and Jerusalem, and the carpenters, and the smiths, were departed from Jerusalem: )

Both of these mention Jeconiah the king and the queen... the queen here is Jeconiah's mother Nehushta, daughter of Elnathan (2 Kings 24:8.) Jeconiah is the son of Jehoiakim (Eliakim) therefore Nehushta was the wife of king Jehoiakim.

Mary was not the wife of a king... the five 'queen mothers' mentioned above were all Queen Dowagers for they were the wives of kings at one point... only a Queen Dowager may become Queen Mother.http://www.christianforums.com/t7503877

 

[justinangel]

Anyone or anything can become an idol.

Here is the original discussion:

In reply to the original discussion which you just quoted above (July 21), the Hebrew title gebirah is used fifteen times in the Old Testament and can be translated to mean "queen mother" or "great lady".

The word "queen" (meleketh) is also acceptable provided that reference is made to the fact that a woman in the ancient kingdom of Judah became queen by virtue of her royal maternity.

He (Asa) also deposed his grandmother Maacah from her position as queen mother, because she had made an outrageous object for Asherah. Asa cut down this object and burned it in the Kidron valley.
1 Kings 15, 13 [NAB]

Maacah was queen mother during the reign of Asa's father King Abijam. The former king's wife must have died before Asa ascended to the throne, or Maacah was at liberty to refuse to relinquish her position as long as she was still alive. In ancient Jewish culture, within the framework of the extended family, a person's grandmother would assume the role of mother in the event of his parent's death. Some Bible versions have the word "mother" in 1 Kings apparently in recognition of this custom.

And also Maacah his mother, even her he removed as queen, because she had made an idol in a grove; and Asa destroyed her idol, and burnt it by the brook Kidron.
1 Kings !5, 13 [KJV]

If Asa's mother had been alive during the reign of her son, her name would have been recorded in Scripture as were the names of all the other queen mothers except wicked Athaliah and the mother of King Ahaz, who also must have died before he became king.

Naamah the Ammonite was the mother of Rehoboam during his reign, and so her name is recorded in Scripture. Maacah was the wife of the king, but she did not assume the position of queen mother until her son Abijam ascended to the throne. Bathsheba was the wife of King David, but it was her son Solomon who had placed a throne for her next to his. He probably instituted the office of the gebirah, for the name of David's mother is not recorded in Scripture. We find it only in the Talmud, according to which she accompanied her son to his coronation and stood close by him during his reign.

Rehoboam rested with his ancestors; he was buried with them in the City of David. His mother was the Ammonite named Naamah. His son Abijam succeeded him as king.
1 Kings 14, 31

Zebidah was the queen mother during the reign of Jehoiakim. Nehusta could not become queen while his mother was still alive, or not until her son Jehoiachin became king.

Jehoiakim was twenty five years old when he began to reign, and he reigned eleven years in Jerusalem. His mother's name was Zebidah, daughter of Pedaiah, from Rhuma.
2 Kings 23, 36

Hence, Mary could not be our queen unless her son was a king of the royal house of David (Lk 1:31-33). Since she is our queen mother in the eternal and transcendent kingdom of heaven, it makes no difference whether she originally was the wife of a mortal Davidic king. For in the eternal kingdom of heaven the institution of marriage does not exist or matter (Mk 12:25). Neither is Mary's son Jesus only a man (Jn 1:14). By the poster's reasoning, we should deny our Lord his Davidic kingship, for he himself had no earthly father who was a king in the royal house of David. To be consistent one would have to strip Jesus of his regal authority when denying Mary her royal dignity. However, both Jesus and Mary can trace their ancestral lineage back to David. Their common genealogies suffice.

Jesus is the fruit of Mary's womb (Lk 1:42).

The Lord has sworn an oath to David; A truth from which he will not turn back: "I will set the fruit of your body upon your throne."
Psalm 132, 11

Our Lord took his sacred flesh and blood from Mary alone - not Joseph and Mary. And so Mary is both bride and mother of our divine King. When the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary, he said to her: "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you" (Lk 1:35). In ancient Judaic culture the "laying power over" (resuth) a woman by a man was a euphemism for entering into a marital relationship. The idiomatic expression "overshadow", to spread one's cloak (tallith) or wing (kenaph) over, likewise connotes entering into marital union. The Hebrew word tallith is derived from the word tellal, which means" shadow". Morally, not legally but lawfully according to the precepts of the Torah, Mary was the spouse of the Holy Spirit by conceiving a child by him. In the Trinity Christ is consubstantially united with the Holy Spirit together with the Father. The activity among them is a common one in one mind and essence. Thus by becoming the bride of Christ at the Annunciation, upon pronouncing her fiat (Lk 1:38), Mary subsequently became the mother of our divine King and our Queen of Heaven by virtue of her divine maternity.

Pax Christu
J.A.

 

[washedagain]

Sin doesn't matter once your saved. Why should it? You're not 'extra saved'.

Some might think you continue to grow/are transformed after being saved. What too? You're already saved. There's no Saved+

What to???????? The Glory of God...

 

[Incariol]

Watched the video prayer by Steve Silvin....Have to say that he is in grave error by saying of Mary that she is our advocate, hope, and refuge of sinners....she is not, the L-rd Jesus is, and this is just more sentimental nonsense.

What's nonsense is the idea that Christians are restricted to a single advocate, hope and refuge.

 

[justinangel]

The Council Fathers may have a degree of authority and be learned men, but if their theology does not line up with biblical teaching, then it is merely man-made theology, based on traditions that are fragile at best and misleading at worst....

Jesus promised that he would be with his Church until the end of time. His presence guarantees the infallible teachings of the Church Ecumenical Councils on faith and morals (Mt 28:20; Jn 16:12-13). And he promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church (Mt 16:18), which had already existed for about 1500 years before the Protestant reformation began in the 16th century to perpetually splinter apart from the single guidance of the Paraclete outside the visible Church as one man-made denomination was formed after another. It does appear that the countless man-made traditions of Protestantism are" fragile at best and misleading at worst", since Protestants cannot even agree among themselves what they should believe in essential matters of faith and morals. On the other hand, the Catholic Tradition is embedded in solid rock (Mt 16:19).

"And besides, also, one only Catholic Apostolic Church, which can never be destroyed, though all the world should seek to make war on it; but it is victorious over every impious revolt of the heretics who rise up against it, for her Goodman hath confirmed our minds by saying: 'Be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.'"
Alexander of Alexandria, Epistle on the Arian Heresy 12 {A.D. 321}

Jesus, Paul and the Apostles taught specifically about safe-guarding the Truth of their teachings and doctrines, and warned that after they died, people would try and subvert the Gospel and distort the teachings.

Acts 20:27 “For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. 28 “Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 “I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 “Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears.

Paul is warning the overseers to be on guard against the gnostic teachers and Jewish Christians who were presently threatening the unity of faith in the Church. He is not warning the faithful to be watchful of the overseers, as you are doing. You are reading into the text what you would like people to believe about the historic teaching authority of the Church. Savage wolves have appeared in the guise of individual free thinkers who presume they have the apostolic authority to interpret the Scriptures as they understand what the written word means in opposition to the traditional orthodox faith and the teachings of the divinely appointed Magisterium. These private persons include major religious thinkers such as Sabellius, Arius, Nestorious, and Luther.

Paul advised the faithful to assent to the proper apsotolic teaching authority of the Church which would eventually succeed the apostles. The true preachers of the word are those who are sent by the Bishops in union with the Church. And these bishops must be able to trace their authority back to the apostles through valid ordination by the laying on of hands in physical succession(Acts 15: 22-27).

"And thus preaching through countries and cities, they [the apostles] appointed the firstfruits of their labours, having first proved them by the spirit, to be bishops and deacons of those who should afterwards believe."
Clement of Rome, Epistle to the Corinthians 42,44 {A.D. 98}

Or consider this message, where Paul is exhorting the Brethren in Galatia to remain true and faithful to the Gospel that he and his leaders have preached to them....he goes so far as to say that even if an Angel appears to them and yet speaks words that don't line up with what they have received....not to believe them. Now consider that an Angel is even more convincing and believable than even a Church Father...so we must always consider what anyone teaches in the light of Scripture.

Galatians 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel. 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
10 For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.

The truth is that Catholics are distorting your limited understanding of the Gospel. Seriously, Paul is simply referring to the pagan converts who were encouraged by other missionaries without a divine mandate to add the observances of Mosaic Law, including circumcision, to the cross of Christ as a means of salvation. He isn't warning the Galatians or ayone else that the appointed teaching authority of the Church (the episcopate) will eventually stray from the true gospel message and lead the faithful astray. On the contrary, "we (the episcopate) are not like the many who trade on the word of God; but as out of sincerity, indeed as from God and in the presence of God, we speak in Christ" (2 Cor 2:17).

This saying is trustworthy, whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task.
1 Timothy 3, 1

"But what is the bishop but one who beyond all others possesses all power and authority, so far as it is possible for a man to possess it, who according to his ability has been made an imitator of the Christ of God."
Ignatius of Antioch, To the Trallians 7 {A.D. 110}

Ultimately it is not History or Tradition that speaks to us of the position of Mary, but what is found in Scripture and sound doctrine, and the idea of her being Queen of Heaven is quite foreign to biblical teaching, although Revelations 12:1 will probably get a mention by some, but closer study will reveal it is talking about Israel, and not Mary.

The deposit of faith has always consisted of both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition since apostolic time. Sola Scriptura is a Protestant invention. The Catholic Church infallibly decreed which books and letters should be listed in the canon of Scripture in the 4th century, long after the Bride of Christ had already invoked Mary as Queen of Heaven. It takes much temerity on the part of Protestants to dictate to Catholics how they should interpret their own holy book. It's like us Christians trying to tell Muslims how to interpret the Quran. The Holy Bible is the result of both the Judaic and Catholic traditions, the former being fulfilled in the latter. So don't put the two mediums of divine revelation in competition with each other. They are interdependent and complimentary to each other.

The symbolism in Revelation 12 is polyvalent. The Woman John envisioned represents Israel, the Church, and Mary, whom Jesus himself addressed as "Woman". Luke alludes to Mary as the personification of daughter Zion (Israel) by drawing a parallel with what was spoken by the prophet Zephaniah. Since early times, Christians have regarded Mary as the prototype of the new Jerusalem, which is the Church. The crown with twelve stars represent the twelve tribes of Israel and the twelve Apostles on whom the Church is founded with Christ as the cornerstone.

"The Almighty has done great things for me, and holy is his name."
Luke 1, 49

Catholics have long believed that our Lord has done more than one great thing for Mary besides granting her the singular privilege of being the Mother of God: her Immaculate Conception, Assumption, and Coronation in Heaven.

Pax Christu
J.A.

 

[gadesa]

calling Mary the queen of heaven is not Biblical.The Queen of Heaven is Pagan in origin and it is a result of Roman paganism into Christianity.There is only one mediator between God and man it is the man CHrist Jesus.1 timothy 2:5

 

[Bryne]

Calling Mary the Queen of Heaven has nothing to do with there being only one mediator between God and man. Those are two different issues.