Martin Luther started a new church

[Studeclunker]

In the 1 Corinthians 12 verse you are citing, Paul is emphasizing the preaching and teaching of the Gospel first which leads to loving acts of service. They are united with the body and serving those who serve with the Gospel message.

In Ephesians 4 he is speaking about the office of the ministry and the men who serve in these offices are gifts to the church. There is one office but a diversity of callings within the office. All of these people are equipping the saints for the work of the Church. So that they may go and tell others about what Jesus has done as well as in service to the Church.

Just so Angel. Context can't be ignored with Scripture!

 

[thegospelisgoodnews]

This is a perfect example of the Scripture Fishing that has caused so much mischef in the Protestant Denominations. In fact, this type of using Scripture out of context is how groups like the Jehovah's Whitnesses became an extra-Christian sect.

For instance, the quotation on I Cor. 12:28, Paul is likening the Church to the various parts of a human body. The Pentecostals and Charasmatics maintain that if one doesn't speak in tongues they likely aren't saved. Yet Paul contradicts this in I Cor. 12:28 if it is used in context.

The same applys to the Ephesians 4:11 & 12 reference. Paul is once again likening the Church to a body. This condemns the Non-Denominational churches as in Ephesians 4:14 Paul says, "...that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to decieve..."

I can't count the non-denom churches who have been fleeced by a wolf in sheep's clothing dressed up as a pastor! Even Calvary Chapel, that bastion of Non-Denominational Churches, had this happen to them. Chuck Smith started out as the associate Pastor and had to take over when the senior Pastor skipped town with the till! I was involved with them when this happened, so I can say this first hand! Thus, I'll stick with a Church that's well grounded and has an organization that oversees and protects the sheep from the wolves.

The point I'm overlabouring to here is that the Non Denoms have thrown the baby out with the bath water, as it were, and are themselves behaving like spoiled children. They want to do things their way. They want to sing their songs. They want to worship their way. Everything has to be new and in the style of music they like. The message is about what they can do themselves. Even baptism, that act of obediance and cleansing, is about them accepting (their will again) Christ, not the Lord's unmerited sacrifice in their place. It's me, me, me, me, me, I, I, I, I! The focus again is on self and selfrighteousness not the vicarious gift of grace and salvation through the blood of Christ!

I thank our guest for providing such an excellent example of the error of the Protestants! It couldn't have been presented better.

As to the O.P. it has been answered better than I can do. The question displays prejudice to and ignorance of the history and facts surrounding the rather reluctant formation of the Lutheran Denomination. I would suggest our host to study the subject and he just might find the denomination he's looking for.

couldn't agree with more, about the non denom, but I don't agree with the scripture fishing, It says what it says, although your right about penticostals and tongues

 

[thegospelisgoodnews]

Are the mods not talking to you at all? I'm getting rather confused as to how you don't understand how the congregational forums work.

not sure why you find a question and a few scripture references so threatning I don't think Luther would have, He was all about what the bible says, in contradiction with what the RCC was doing.

 

[thegospelisgoodnews]

Just for giggles (and I'll probably regret it), I looked up the verses you quoted to see what you were going on about.

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

Ephesians 4:11-12
11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,

Honestly, I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Confessional Lutheran churches have all these positions, duties and activities. The vast majority are all contained within the Office of the Ministry.

Now, if you're gonna say that these all have to be separate people in separate offices with separate titles and separate parking spaces, then we will have to disagree. Hopefully you know that all these are duties (among others) of the Office of the Ministry, or duties that take place under the authority of that office, and not all separated out into different offices.

thats great! thats all I was asking

 

[seajoy]

not sure why you find a question and a few scripture references so threatning I don't think Luther would have, He was all about what the bible says, in contradiction with what the RCC was doing.

I guess it's rather the way you ask questions. I do not feel threatened, but more-less annoyed.

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

not sure why you find a question and a few scripture references so threatning I don't think Luther would have, He was all about what the bible says, in contradiction with what the RCC was doing.

I don't think wanting the rule/guidelines of CF followed equates being threatened. It means respecting the authority and expectations of CF who grants the opportunity to use this forum.

 

[Studeclunker]

Are we there yet?

 

[Logical_Lutheran]

Are we there yet?

Stude...will you just go eat some applesauce already...good Lord you've been cranky lately LOL!

 

[Zecryphon]

Maybe Stude hasn't had his cookies, juice box, story time and a nap today, and that's why he's cranky. LOL

 

[Tangible]

Hey, if the goats had ruined your garden you'd be cranky too!

 

[QuiltAngel]

Here i thought Stude was being funny, not cranky.

 

[Lost Squirrel]

Hey, if the goats had ruined your garden you'd be cranky too!

Then please, send those goats my way! We could surely use those critters to trim and fertilize. Our property is too over saturated with water to run a tractor and it's waaaaaay overgrown. Mom got her mower stuck day before yesterday and.. well, if she was thinner and younger, her neighbors would have paid to see the mud bath she gave herself! lol!!!!!

Oh, and Stude, I'll have an Activia for ya!

 

[Zecryphon]

Hey, if the goats had ruined your garden you'd be cranky too!

I live in the desert, what do I know of gardening? Weeding! That's what I know about! LOL So we replace his juice with some Bourbon and he'll calm right down. Oh wait! That's me that works for. LOL

 

[Lupinus]

This is a perfect example of the Scripture Fishing that has caused so much mischef in the Protestant Denominations. In fact, this type of using Scripture out of context is how groups like the Jehovah's Whitnesses became an extra-Christian sect.

For instance, the quotation on I Cor. 12:28, Paul is likening the Church to the various parts of a human body. The Pentecostals and Charasmatics maintain that if one doesn't speak in tongues they likely aren't saved. Yet Paul contradicts this in I Cor. 12:28 if it is used in context.

The same applys to the Ephesians 4:11 & 12 reference. Paul is once again likening the Church to a body. This condemns the Non-Denominational churches as in Ephesians 4:14 Paul says, "...that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to decieve..."

I can't count the non-denom churches who have been fleeced by a wolf in sheep's clothing dressed up as a pastor! Even Calvary Chapel, that bastion of Non-Denominational Churches, had this happen to them. Chuck Smith started out as the associate Pastor and had to take over when the senior Pastor skipped town with the till! I was involved with them when this happened, so I can say this first hand! Thus, I'll stick with a Church that's well grounded and has an organization that oversees and protects the sheep from the wolves.

The point I'm overlabouring to here is that the Non Denoms have thrown the baby out with the bath water, as it were, and are themselves behaving like spoiled children. They want to do things their way. They want to sing their songs. They want to worship their way. Everything has to be new and in the style of music they like. The message is about what they can do themselves. Even baptism, that act of obediance and cleansing, is about them accepting (their will again) Christ, not the Lord's unmerited sacrifice in their place. It's me, me, me, me, me, I, I, I, I! The focus again is on self and selfrighteousness not the vicarious gift of grace and salvation through the blood of Christ!

I thank our guest for providing such an excellent example of the error of the Protestants! It couldn't have been presented better.

As to the O.P. it has been answered better than I can do. The question displays prejudice to and ignorance of the history and facts surrounding the rather reluctant formation of the Lutheran Denomination. I would suggest our host to study the subject and he just might find the denomination he's looking for.

Well said Stude!

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

This is a perfect example of the Scripture Fishing that has caused so much mischef in the Protestant Denominations. In fact, this type of using Scripture out of context is how groups like the Jehovah's Whitnesses became an extra-Christian sect.

For instance, the quotation on I Cor. 12:28, Paul is likening the Church to the various parts of a human body. The Pentecostals and Charasmatics maintain that if one doesn't speak in tongues they likely aren't saved. Yet Paul contradicts this in I Cor. 12:28 if it is used in context.

The same applys to the Ephesians 4:11 & 12 reference. Paul is once again likening the Church to a body. This condemns the Non-Denominational churches as in Ephesians 4:14 Paul says, "...that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to decieve..."

I can't count the non-denom churches who have been fleeced by a wolf in sheep's clothing dressed up as a pastor! Even Calvary Chapel, that bastion of Non-Denominational Churches, had this happen to them. Chuck Smith started out as the associate Pastor and had to take over when the senior Pastor skipped town with the till! I was involved with them when this happened, so I can say this first hand! Thus, I'll stick with a Church that's well grounded and has an organization that oversees and protects the sheep from the wolves.

The point I'm overlabouring to here is that the Non Denoms have thrown the baby out with the bath water, as it were, and are themselves behaving like spoiled children. They want to do things their way. They want to sing their songs. They want to worship their way. Everything has to be new and in the style of music they like. The message is about what they can do themselves. Even baptism, that act of obediance and cleansing, is about them accepting (their will again) Christ, not the Lord's unmerited sacrifice in their place. It's me, me, me, me, me, I, I, I, I! The focus again is on self and selfrighteousness not the vicarious gift of grace and salvation through the blood of Christ!

I thank our guest for providing such an excellent example of the error of the Protestants! It couldn't have been presented better.

As to the O.P. it has been answered better than I can do. The question displays prejudice to and ignorance of the history and facts surrounding the rather reluctant formation of the Lutheran Denomination. I would suggest our host to study the subject and he just might find the denomination he's looking for.

 

[Logical_Lutheran]

Hey, if the goats had ruined your garden you'd be cranky too!

When did my family decide to visit stude? Please send them home stude, and say BAAAAAAH to my sister....

 

[Diane_Windsor]

The Church known as the Lutheran Church is the one true Church founded by Christ Himself . . .

RCs like to claim this for their church, but this is the first time that I have ever heard a Lutheran claim this. Can you please elaborate?

Thanks

 

[DaRev]

RCs like to claim this for their church, but this is the first time that I have ever heard a Lutheran claim this. Can you plese elaborate?

Thanks

You didn't quote the whole sentence.

The Church known as the Lutheran Church is the one true Church founded by Christ Himself, based upon the teachings of the Apostles handed down over the centuries.

The Confessional Lutheran Church maintains the teachings and practices of the historic Christian faith from the time of the Apostles. The RCC has strayed from that to a point where it's barely recognizable. Everything the Confessional Lutheran church teaches either is believed or was at one time believed by every confessing Christian in the world.