Martial Arts thread!

[WalksWithChrist]

Kuai Shou Pai / Shaolin Kuai Shou (SKS) is a southern Shaolin system of Kung fu that was very similar to Wing cun in appearance, however its principles go much deeper. SKS is not a very well known style but is a no nonsense system created specifically for "street combat" (Keep in mind the boxer rebellion and lei tai fights of the times).

The system is devided into 4 major groups.
Da -Strike
Ti -Kick
Na - Grab
Shuai - Throw

Each group is performed in long (Kicking) range, medium (Punching) range, short (Trapping) range, Close Grappling (Standing) range, and Dog (Ground) Fighting range.

The three Phases of training are Gong Lik (gathering energy), Fa Jing (Projecting explosive energy), and sensitivity training.

Knife, stick, and flexible weapons are taught at advanced levels.

There are NO tau lu or Forms in Kuai Shou, but instead, each technique is taught against a variety of attacks. This enables the Kuai Shou practitioner to utilize all techniques on all attacks.

Nerve destructions, Limb destructions, and Dian Xue (Meridian attacks) are greatly utilized in the setting up of any Shuai or Na fa (Methods).

There is also a very heavy influence of San Shou (free fighting) in SKS.

I hope this is what you were looking for.

God Bless

Wow, that was very descriptive! I have a good idea of how it works now. Thank you.

My style, Cuong Nhu, was formed at a time like that in Vietnam. So it is geared more towards street fighting (defending against actually) as well. We do focus heavily on forms tho which I greatly enjoy.
Cuong Nhu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The nerve/meridian attacks you mention remind me of what I have heard about Chin Na. A style I find interesting, but hesitate to practice! I have enough pain in my life as it is.

 

[Gospel Trafficker]

I am very familiar with Cuong Nhu. I am a former Buddhist Monk myself and have met some monks that practice Cuong Nhu, and still have some friends in the Temple (CHua Phuoc Long) that practice Vinh Xuan and Viet Vo Dao.

AS for the Qin na aspects of the SKS art, it is something I am VERY good at. One of my favorite aspects of the system. You are correct in that it is a very painful practice. But your joints will adjust eventually..lol

 

[WalksWithChrist]

I am very familiar with Cuong Nhu. I am a former Buddhist Monk myself and have met some monks that practice Cuong Nhu, and still have some friends in the Temple (CHua Phuoc Long) that practice Vinh Xuan and Viet Vo Dao.

AS for the Qin na aspects of the SKS art, it is something I am VERY good at. One of my favorite aspects of the system. You are correct in that it is a very painful practice. But your joints will adjust eventually..lol

PM coming your way.

ETA: I have seen a few Viet Vo Dao (one art that contributes to Cuong Nhu's system) videos and they are amazing. I don't know if I'd ever like to try a flying scissor neck takedown!

 

[Gambarola]

I study Armizare and Kunst De Fechtens. Think of them as Italian and German sword, dagger and grappling combatives from the renaissance era.

 

[Gospel Trafficker]

I study Armizare and Kunst De Fechtens. Think of them as Italian and German sword, dagger and grappling combatives from the renaissance era.

Very nice! unique. Not something you hear everyday!

 

[Gambarola]

For those who are wondering what i mean, or are skeptical, here are some vids, showing western weapon arts and kampfringen, medieval combat grappling styles that played the same role for knights that Jujutsu played for the Samurai. These are historical styles in the process of recreation from manuscripts known as fechtbuchs.

Zornhau training - Lichtenauers longsword techniques - YouTube
Zwerchhau, absetzen, nachreissen - longsword techniques training - YouTube
Fencing with five different medieval weapons - YouTube
ringschule - fabian von auerswald - YouTube
ringschule Wroclaw - YouTube
FEDER presentation - YouTube


The interesting part about these systems, at least for Christians, is the explicitly Christian environment in which these arts evolved. Having evolved in a Christian culture, there are no eastern mystical concepts embedded into the arts or the concepts surrounding the arts. The fechtbuchs are full of Christian imagery and ideals, and these are reflected in the way the techniques were presented and performed.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

For those who are wondering what i mean, or are skeptical, here are some vids, showing western weapon arts and kampfringen, medieval combat grappling styles that played the same role for knights that Jujutsu played for the Samurai. These are historical styles in the process of recreation from manuscripts known as fechtbuchs.

Zornhau training - Lichtenauers longsword techniques - YouTube
Zwerchhau, absetzen, nachreissen - longsword techniques training - YouTube
Fencing with five different medieval weapons - YouTube
ringschule - fabian von auerswald - YouTube
ringschule Wroclaw - YouTube
FEDER presentation - YouTube


The interesting part about these systems, at least for Christians, is the explicitly Christian environment in which these arts evolved. Having evolved in a Christian culture, there are no eastern mystical concepts embedded into the arts or the concepts surrounding the arts. The fechtbuchs are full of Christian imagery and ideals, and these are reflected in the way the techniques were presented and performed.

Wow, that looks really fun! Sign me up!

 

[Gospel Trafficker]

Im digging it!

 

[VictorBlack]

Unfortunately, the vast majority of Christians that tried martial arts were, to me, ineffective and delusional. They are simply not fighters in any sense of the word.

It seems to me, from the outside looking in, that it is because they have not come to terms with the violence involved. Many have pacifist views, which is impractical in violent situations because it forces them to react to the aggressor-- and they are always too late.

There have been a few, and I found that they had come to believe strongly in the "god of the Old Testament" which they called "more of a Warrior God".

Of course, there are quite a few who don't train for any practical purpose, only to improve themselves, or some other such nonsense. But in this, I am specifically wondering about those of you who are Christians, and train for the purpose of actually being able to use your skills in a violent confrontation.

How do you handle the conflict between your religious convictions and the need to actually hurt, maim, or kill another human being if and when you are forced into that situation?

 

[Gambarola]

You do realise that boxing, fencing, wrestling and are martial arts? Given the success of Christian Europe in war, Christians must have been quite good at fighting and martial arts. You do not need chi energy, kanji or gi's to have martial arts.

In any case, neither god nor jesus ever said "Thou Shalt be a doormat". Jesus did not rebuke the centurion for being a soldier, nor did he forbid his followers to carry weapons.

 

[VictorBlack]

Boxing, fencing, and wrestling are hardly martial... they are sports. They may have been martial at some point, but now they are a game where you play "touch".


Yes, I am quite aware of the effectiveness of "Christian" Europe in war-- often wars they started.


Never said anything about chi, kanji (?) or dogi being important? And actually, Jesus did say, "Turn the other cheek" after you've been hit. Now unless he was talking about turning around and showing your backside, to me that means letting the other fellow hit you again.


And while he did say you can carry weapons, wasn't he talking about carrying it two miles for a real soldier?


In any case, modern Christians are considerably more docile than their ancestors. How do you handle the "Thou shall not kill" idea when your life is on the line? Just fight with less commitment and let the other guy have the advantage, and when you get killed it was "God's Will"?

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Boxing, fencing, and wrestling are hardly martial... they are sports. They may have been martial at some point, but now they are a game where you play "touch".


Yes, I am quite aware of the effectiveness of "Christian" Europe in war-- often wars they started.


Never said anything about chi, kanji (?) or dogi being important? And actually, Jesus did say, "Turn the other cheek" after you've been hit. Now unless he was talking about turning around and showing your backside, to me that means letting the other fellow hit you again.


And while he did say you can carry weapons, wasn't he talking about carrying it two miles for a real soldier?


In any case, modern Christians are considerably more docile than their ancestors. How do you handle the "Thou shall not kill" idea when your life is on the line? Just fight with less commitment and let the other guy have the advantage, and when you get killed it was "God's Will"?

I'm not sure where you're getting your ideas from. A good many Christians I know here at CF are hardcore gun enthusiasts. That's not exactly pacifistic. Also, there are MMA fighters out there (seems they were more prevalent back when I watched MMA more often, can't think of any names right now) that had "3:16" tattoed all over themselves.

I train in a style that is non-competitive (i.e. not a sport) and works all aspects of martial arts and isn't afraid to teach arm breaking for self defense just as one example.

What's your MA background?

 

[WalksWithChrist]

You do realise that boxing, fencing, wrestling and are martial arts? Given the success of Christian Europe in war, Christians must have been quite good at fighting and martial arts. You do not need chi energy, kanji or gi's to have martial arts.

In any case, neither god nor jesus ever said "Thou Shalt be a doormat". Jesus did not rebuke the centurion for being a soldier, nor did he forbid his followers to carry weapons.

Tai Chi is also a martial art. Any system that can be used to engage another human in some sort of combat is a martial art.

This is a point that gets argued quite a lot actually. Sport martial arts are still martial arts. Judo is mostly a sport yet it is also widely accepted as a martial art. It has a defined ruleset.

 

[Gambarola]

Boxing, fencing, and wrestling are hardly martial... they are sports. They may have been martial at some point, but now they are a game where you play "touch".

Irrelevant. They are as martial as BJJ, Judo, kendo, karate, tae kwon do or Muay Thai. Just ask anyone in the UFC. Can you name me a martial art you have used in battle? Which martial arts do you study?

Yes, I am quite aware of the effectiveness of "Christian" Europe in war-- often wars they started.


Never said anything about chi, kanji (?) or dogi being important? And actually, Jesus did say, "Turn the other cheek" after you've been hit. Now unless he was talking about turning around and showing your backside, to me that means letting the other fellow hit you again.

In the culture of the time, a slap on the cheek was considered a form of insult, akin to me spitting in your face. His injunction to turn the other cheek is meant to restrain you from seeking personal vengeance against petty insults and indignities, and abusing the principle of an eye for an eye for personal gratification. Nowhere does he say "do not defend your life against grave threats"

And while he did say you can carry weapons, wasn't he talking about carrying it two miles for a real soldier?

In any case, modern Christians are considerably more docile than their ancestors. How do you handle the "Thou shall not kill" idea when your life is on the line? Just fight with less commitment and let the other guy have the advantage, and when you get killed it was "God's Will"?

The precise translation is 'thou shalt not murder'.

Jesus did not rebuke his followers for carrying weapons..(One of his followers was a known member of the Zealots)..he did rebuke them for wanting to use them at the inappropriate times and reminded them of the cost of violence. Jesus, was, after all the man who drove the moneylenders form the temple.

“There is a time for everything and a season for every activity under the heaven…a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build…a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace"

 

[WalksWithChrist]

The current UFC Light Heavyweight Champion, Jon Jones, has a big "Phillipians 4:13" tattoo on the right hand side of his chest. Ben Henderson has angels wings tattooed on his back. I don't think you're going to get too many "3:16" tattoos on fighters anymore if only because the use of that in sport in general is a really tired cliché and fighters today generally go for originality. That's not a knock on anyone expressing their religious feelings, which is the last impression I want to give on my first post here.

As it is, religious fighters generally don't have tattoos about it but rather stick to mentioning God or their religion in the post-fight interview.

I saw his latest UFC match. What a great fight.

Good post also.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Do we have any other UFC or MMA fans here? Did any of you watch the fights on Fuel and FX last night?

I'm getting back into UFC after a very long time. I only have time for UFC. I'd like to see other fights. I do see a random one on YouTube here and there.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

You picked almost the perfect time if you were able to catch Edson Barboza's highlight reel finish last weekend. Are we allowed to link to YouTube videos on here? That's a KO that more people need to see.

Sure. As long as there's no copyright violation, which YouTube would most likely filter out already.

Link me!

 

[WalksWithChrist]

UFC Rio | Edson Barboza Nocaute | Intertv - YouTube

The clip of the fight starts 18-seconds in. It's taken from a Brazilian news program of some kind.

Spinning heel kick win! Very nice.


I don't mind a short fight as long as it's a nice hit.
Thanks for that.

 

[OohArr]

Boxing, fencing, and wrestling are hardly martial... they are sports. They may have been martial at some point, but now they are a game where you play "touch".


Yes, I am quite aware of the effectiveness of "Christian" Europe in war-- often wars they started.


Never said anything about chi, kanji (?) or dogi being important? And actually, Jesus did say, "Turn the other cheek" after you've been hit. Now unless he was talking about turning around and showing your backside, to me that means letting the other fellow hit you again.


And while he did say you can carry weapons, wasn't he talking about carrying it two miles for a real soldier?


In any case, modern Christians are considerably more docile than their ancestors. How do you handle the "Thou shall not kill" idea when your life is on the line? Just fight with less commitment and let the other guy have the advantage, and when you get killed it was "God's Will"?

Sports and Martial arts are not exclusive terms.

Historically sports were (and still are) effective ways of preparing soldiers for battle. Boxing and Wrestling were staples in the training of Roman legionaries and Greek Soldiers. Even the U.S. Marine Corps with its MCMAP programme extensively draws on boxing, bjj and muay thai in order to provide the recruits with access to a selection of techniques and training methods that can be practised with resistance and engaged in competitively to help build a "warrior" mindset.

And you have fallen for a very old trap in thinking that fighting is all about killing.

While it is true, that many martial arts were applied in times where killing was a necessary objective, nowadays it is just not a practical approach to self-defence.

If someone starts a bar brawl with you and your primary response is to look for a punch to the throat or a neck-snap, then you are very poorly prepared for the modern world.

I mean do you really want to kill someone over a bar-brawl? Even if the morality doesn't appeal to you, what about the whole "jail" thing? Many of us on this board have families to take care of, jobs to go to, hobbies to pursue and lives to live we don't want to waste our time rotting in a jail cell for snapping some poor lads neck over a spilled pint of lager.


You are also making the false generalisation that the only reason to engage in martial arts is to learn to fight.
Such a characterisation of the "true martial artist" is a poor one at best, nowadays with the advent of the professional armed military and working police force knowing how to fight isn't a necessity. Furthermore, the vast majority of people engage in martial arts because they enjoy what they do, not because they want to fight.

Ki-aikido, Tajiquan and Iado practitioners are prime examples of this. The average healthy martial artist has no interest in winning desperate bar-brawls with angry biker gangs, his/her life is full of far more pressing matters like family, friends and fun.

 

[OohArr]

Ignore the part above regarding not following the other person to the floor and controlling them. I see the style of just chucking someone and stopping, is pretty standard CMA practise.