Martial Arts and Christianity

[plmarquette]

Curry Blake speaks of "chakra's" and opening up self to spirits ...

John G. Lake Divine Healing Technician Training Course, taught by Curry Blake
speaks of "chakra's" and spiritual bondage / occult

 

[azureblue00]

Thank you NNSV, I appreciate that. I completely concur with you as well. My nephew, 16 years old, has never attended a dojo, but is very capable of defending himself (unfortunately he's had someone attempt to punch him before, and he was able to hold the person back, thankfully, using the martial arts knowledge he has.).

Originally my dearest Earthly friend (brother as far as I'm concerned) was teaching him whenever the two would visit with eachother. Eventually my nephew decided he wanted to beat my friend in a sparring match, as he never could come close, so he sought me out. As the running gag for, all of our lives has been that my friend and I, in some way break even in EVERYTHING we attempt. For every piece of knowledge he has, that I do not, I have a different piece of knowledge he is lacking, in martial arts, we too break even.

So, I began working with my nephew as well. He's absolutely amazed me with how well he's flourished, I still intend to go back to my dojo (having to take a hiatus, due to financial reasons, among other things, that are now resolved, praise God!) and I encourage my nephew to attend with me, when I do start back, as at my intermediate level I am very limited in what I can show him, and would love to see how well he'd grow under the tutelage of truly great instructors, such as the one's I've been blessed with.

I personally plan on returning to the dojo, for one to increase my martial arts skill and knowledge, and also to get into the black belt ranks. I someday hope to teach martial arts regularly, teaching my nephew has confirmed my love and passion for not just practicing, but sharing the martial arts with others.

So, I, as a result, want more skill, and more certification to teach with.

My primary point in all that being that you don't -have- to go to a dojo, if you have a trusted friend, or relative that has studied to any extend in the martial arts, they will most likely be able to help you learn it as well.

At any rate, as to the post concerning 'chakras' and 'spirits'. I personally have never encountered talk of spirits, though I'm sure there are dojos teaching such things, those, obviously should be avoided. As 1 John 4 mentions, we need to try the spirit, a martial arts dojo should not be exempt from that trying of spirit, to discern if The One True God is in that dojo, or if it is given over to devils.

When I began studying the martial arts, I was not in Church, or following God, so after I did give control of my life over to God, I began reevaluating everything that I thought I knew before. Martial arts was part of that, I prayed a great deal, very earnestly to know if it was God's will for me to practice the martial arts, as I didn't want to do the wrong thing. God confirmed that it was His will for me to study, and through prayer, Bible study, and the counsel of others, I've come to understand that martial arts is in fact very important.

So, yup, loving this thread.

I will leave this warning with any prospective martial artists. Most slasher films will become completely useless to you after studying the martial arts. What used to induce fear, or excitement, will now induce dull, blan frustration as you consider all the many ways they could dispatch their would be killer. ....Just sayin' lol

 

[Leah]

I personally would like to do marital arts but never got into it due to not being sure if the Lord would be ok with that or not.

At one time I was engaged and my ex fiance was a 4th degree senior blackbelt taekwondo instructor. Everyone called him Bruce Lee reincarnated (I was unregenerate back then and thought nothing of those remarks) cuz he was just that good. He taught me the proper technique on how to kick, punch, block, and even fall when sparring with someone.

The main reason I would like to do martial arts is for the physical exercise. Sure, there's other things one can do to stay fit, but martial arts make most of your muscles work all at once, which can help them to increase not only in stamina but also in size and strength.






At times, I wonder if I've missed my calling......

 

[azureblue00]

Indeed, martial arts are probably the best form of physical fitness there is! If you're too aged, or frail for something like Muay Thai than you can take up Tai Chi, or Kung Fu for a nice in between area, as far as fitness goes.

Yes, it helps your balance, strength, speed, reflexes, and as already mentioned you learn how to disperse the force of a fall so as not to get hurt.

I love how easily accessible martial arts is for anyone willing to learn. Though finding a place to study is the only, somewhat difficult part, depending on your area.

 

[ai3theanswer]

My goodness people you are children of The Most High God start acting like it. If you want to do martial arts.... do it. Stop giving the devil so much credit and start giving Jesus the credit He deserves. If doing martial arts can erase/steal what Jesus done on the cross then we are in trouble. Instead of always being scared of getting an evil spirit (which you can't) start thinking you will give your classmates what you got the HOLY SPIRIT. Jesus wasn't suppose to touch the leper but He did and the leper caught what Jesus had.

 

[NNSV]

My goodness people you are children of The Most High God start acting like it. If you want to do martial arts.... do it. Stop giving the devil so much credit and start giving Jesus the credit He deserves. If doing martial arts can erase/steal what Jesus done on the cross then we are in trouble. Instead of always being scared of getting an evil spirit (which you can't) start thinking you will give your classmates what you got the HOLY SPIRIT. Jesus wasn't suppose to touch the leper but He did and the leper caught what Jesus had.

The problem is that some martial arts is sort of like a church, or temple. You have instructors that give philosophical, ethical and many times spiritual teaching. Depending on the instructor, it wont be out of the ordinary to hear about using inner ki, using heart chakras, or some other mystical aspect of martial arts. The deeper into martial arts you go, the more philosophical and spiritual teaching that will consequently be pushed upon you.

We aren't giving the devil too much credit. And, we aren't necessarily saying don't do martial arts. I am saying that it would be better if you trained on your own rather that going into an environment specifically hostile to christian spirituality. It is one thing to be put in a situation to help people by God, but it is another thing to tempt ourselves thinking we are stronger than we really are. We don't give satan super power, but we don't overestimate our own spiritual selves either. Satan managed to beguile two of God's perfect creatures... he usually has no problem influencing sinners/sons of men.

 

[If Not For Grace]

Of course I will be labeled a heretic and demon-possessed now for saying that, so I'll go further.
​

Infidel!!

Every Kid in Karate Class is doomed to hell
People look for stuff to worry about.
​

 

[azureblue00]

Fine comments from both Ai3th and N! I do agree Ai3th that wherever we are we need to consider how it can work for God's glory, to ask ourselves, more importantly, to ask God how we can use this situation, this place for Him.

That being said, I do also concur with N's comments about the 'deeper' aspects of martial arts. Some dojo, by nature are religious establishments above being a martial arts class. The martial arts instead is simply a facet of the teachings. The Shaolin Temples in China, for example, the martial arts are an aspect of their religious beliefs, thus to go there, means you are going to also experience their belief system. Yes, I believe that once one is Saved (Romans 10:13), they are sealed (Ephesians 4:30) and that Satan can't possess them. That isn't to say that we can't still be led into sin, or even idolatry.

Look at Solomon, the wisest human to ever live, God Himself said that none would compare to Solomon's wisdom, yet, when choosing to take in wives of other religions, also took their gods into his life, and began worshipping false idols. Idolatry, and Adultery, two sins that the wisest human committed because he allowed his surroundings to be tainted. In terms of ecosystems, we are taught that one cup of oil poored into the dirt will taint an entire yard. So too, just one cup of sinful influence can be absolutely devastating to a Christian!

Thus, the choosing of an instructor, whether it be dojo, or private instruction, should be taken with great prayer, and consideration.

Not just on account of the aforementioned matters, but also to ensure quality teaching, who wants to spend that much time (and likely money) to be taught things that aren't really going to help you achieve your goals. If your goal is self-defense going to a dojo that focusses soley on sports martial arts, as in rules, rings, and tournaments, then you're not going to get what YOU were looking for. Or if you are looking for tournaments, and find a self-defense focused dojo.

So, yes, it isn't a decision to take lightly, though I'm a future-oriented thinker, so I tend to weigh most of my decisions a great deal.

 

[NNSV]

Fine comments from both Ai3th and N! I do agree Ai3th that wherever we are we need to consider how it can work for God's glory, to ask ourselves, more importantly, to ask God how we can use this situation, this place for Him.

That being said, I do also concur with N's comments about the 'deeper' aspects of martial arts. Some dojo, by nature are religious establishments above being a martial arts class. The martial arts instead is simply a facet of the teachings. The Shaolin Temples in China, for example, the martial arts are an aspect of their religious beliefs, thus to go there, means you are going to also experience their belief system. Yes, I believe that once one is Saved (Romans 10:13), they are sealed (Ephesians 4:30) and that Satan can't possess them. That isn't to say that we can't still be led into sin, or even idolatry.

Look at Solomon, the wisest human to ever live, God Himself said that none would compare to Solomon's wisdom, yet, when choosing to take in wives of other religions, also took their gods into his life, and began worshipping false idols. Idolatry, and Adultery, two sins that the wisest human committed because he allowed his surroundings to be tainted. In terms of ecosystems, we are taught that one cup of oil poored into the dirt will taint an entire yard. So too, just one cup of sinful influence can be absolutely devastating to a Christian!

Thus, the choosing of an instructor, whether it be dojo, or private instruction, should be taken with great prayer, and consideration.

Not just on account of the aforementioned matters, but also to ensure quality teaching, who wants to spend that much time (and likely money) to be taught things that aren't really going to help you achieve your goals. If your goal is self-defense going to a dojo that focusses soley on sports martial arts, as in rules, rings, and tournaments, then you're not going to get what YOU were looking for. Or if you are looking for tournaments, and find a self-defense focused dojo.

So, yes, it isn't a decision to take lightly, though I'm a future-oriented thinker, so I tend to weigh most of my decisions a great deal.

I agree. Most people don't know how spiritually deep practicing native martial arts, or even yoga is. I had a Hindu friend that was so upset when the Yoga phenomenon caught on in the states because he said it was a very spiritual part of Hinduism. I wont say don't go to a dojo, but like azureblue00 said you should check them out and interview them, or research them.

 

[azureblue00]

Mhm...I once again agree. Another thing to watch for, is to make sure they're not just trying to take all your money. I heard of a dojo in my area that charged $55 a month, for 'regular' class, than had 'secret' techniques they'd teach for those that paid $80 something a month. How does being able to afford an extra $30 a month make you more capable to learn, and responsibly handle these 'secret' techniques? Thus, they are either very irresponsible martial artists, or they are con artists.

The dojo I attend offers the first class for free. So one can go, see how they like it, then decide if they want to join or not, and even upon joining the payments are leniant, they don't pressure for payment, so if someone happens to be a week or so late, nothing is ever said about it.

As for the respectable dojos that I've heard of, offering a free trial class tends to be a common component, while not a definite sign it's a good dojo, it at least shows that they're willing to give you thinking room.

 

[KarateCowboy]

I think if you understand Martial Arts in its proper sense it is a non-issue. Here is a great example:

M.E.M.A.G. Medieval European Martial Arts Guild

YouTube - Twirch Ringen (Updated)

 

[ai3theanswer]

Wow people its incredible how a simple question about martial arts is taken to the extreme. For anyone that starts out in martial arts...how many of those people are giong to become 7degree black belts??? Not that many. I can make a safe assumption that about 5-10% of people become great grand masters.
That would be like saying everyone that goes to church is going to become a big evangelist or pastor. Or everyone kid that plays basketball is giong to make the nba get a lot of money and spend it on strippers. Stop taking simple questions to the extreme to make your point.
Stop using this example that people in martial arts are easily lead astray by satan because they open themselves up to demon spirits....with that being said how do you explain the same thing happening to people that are always in church?? To pastors. What about people who aren't in martial arts or anything at all...but are subject to the demon spirits?
With all that being said you have to use common sense. Not all martial arts club are going to be good...just like not all churches teach Jesus and the bible.

 

[azureblue00]

Respecatable post Ai3theanswer, and appreciated. I do want to note though, and not as a jab at your post, so please don't feel this is hostile toward you. That in light of some of the very important questions people were asking about martial arts, it is somewhat necessary that 'extreme' examples be visited, otherwise this thread would have failed to fully explain if martial arts is suitable for Christianity. Because, the 'extreme' examples are indeed true. As you aptly said, it's not going to be nearly as common, especially in the USA to see such things, but it is still a strong possibility. So, it's important that people do address that issue. That being, said, you fairly well summed up that a small number of martial arts dojos will offer that threat, so it's really more of something to keep in the back of your mind, more than something to fear.

Also, fine points about other things being equally destructive. In the end, one must have the Spirit of God in them, and obey Him. To do this, the rest will fall into place, including finding a suitable 'Christian friendly' martial arts dojo.

I am also very glad that Simon Peter initiated this discussion. It was something that needed addressed. I myself have had to explain to individuals in person the differences in martial arts, and that it isn't all a bunch of withcraft, etc. So to have a thread available for anyone to read is a very useful thing. Thanks!

 

[Ajax 777]

Well, you men may have convinced yourselves that this is just and acceptable...

But you know what?

I'm STILL going to let the LORD be the only Judge of this, and every, matter
pertaining to what is just and acceptable to HIM. Hope you don't mind if I do that.

 

[azureblue00]

@Ajax...I respect your post..though it confuses me.

I personally left the martial arts for a time, and prayed, and studied, and consulted a great deal before seeing that God indeed condoned my study of the martial arts. So, I feel it's just a tad bit hasty for you to assume we have 'convinced ourselves'.

I have done exactly what you so admirably intend to do. Let God lead me. Isn't the point of letting God lead you..to actually follow? I just get the impression you are condemning our opinion even though we have, in fact, done what you are intending to do. Seek God's judgement of the matter, and follow it.

If you feel that a person shouldn't even bothering asking a human about the matter, then I'd assume you're also opposed to Preachers, and Sunday School teachers?

God reveals things to humans, that they may share with other humans.

Thus is the point of Simon Peter starting this thread, in the hopes that God had revealed something to some other Christian that could in turn share it with him.

By all means, seek God's will. I would not have anyone take my word on anything. That's why I've tried to show the Scripture that I base my beliefs on, I don't want my opinion to sway anyone, rather God's will.

So, fine point you made with that post Ajax, indeed a necessary one.

 

[Ajax 777]

I condemned no one and nothing in this thread.

I'm glad your conscience is clear in this, but if you have sought GOD on this...
why would you think each man himself or herself ought not also to do the same?
The way some of the opinions in this thread are presented, it appears to be what some think:
that we should agree with them, or we stand worthy of their ridicule and condescension.
As it is written, 'To his own Master will each man stand or fall.'

It strikes me as prideful when other people demand their own views be granted
pre-eminence while simultaneously condemning and/or ridiculing others' convictions
in a matter which ought be each man's own liberty between
him- or herself and the One True Most High GOD and Judge of all,
Who is blessed forever! Amen.

I said exactly what I meant to say, and nothing more.

 

[azureblue00]

@Ajax/every other reader/poster: I apologize, it seems you and I have had a misunderstanding then. I agree with you, it is each person's job to make their own choice. If I have implied that I feel differently, I do apologize. I was, at fault, if indeed I have done so.

I suppose this would be a good time to mention 'netiquette' or, the proper wordings for 'online' communications:

Is also why I work so hard to throw in things like 'I apologize'. In 'online' communication, things like: hand gestures, facial expressions, vocal tones, etc. are completely absent, thus we must use extra effort in our words, to see that people understand the tone of what we're saying.

So, seeing as I may have come off as overtly forceful, and overbearing in my beliefs, I do apologize for that. That was not my intentions, rather to offer my belief, the Scripture that founds my belief, and then allow others to choose for themselves, this was my intention.

 

[Ajax 777]

Azureblue...please relax.

I have not chosen to name any names, nor will I.
But your humble and contrite tone is witness enough
to the sincerity of your heart.

I wasn't really referring to you, except where otherwise indicated
(meaning when I addressed the need of all to seek HIS counsel
as you have also done.)

 

[Cassidy]

Wax on, wax off! chop chop!

 

[azureblue00]

@Ajax: Thanks so much for the kind words. I've been a bit tied up with school and work here lately, just a bit lagged, otherwise I probably would have read over everything more thoroughly, and offered some more thought-out replies. lol

Again, gotta say, loving this site. Usually checking a forum has been a hassle, and chore for me, far from relaxing. This forum, is relaxing though, everyone's kindness, and well, Christian attitude, so very refreshing. I love it!

Yeah, I guess I can come off as very uptight, and in ways I am. My mind goes like one thousand miles a second so usually I just have to nab out my replies as the words fly by in my mind lol. So, I suppose it can come off as tense. That, and I've been jaded by other forums, so I try very hard to clarify what I'm saying..I imagine you all have seen how one misconstrued sentence can take like 5 posts to clear out lol.

@Cassidy: Love those verses! I really needed to read that, helps bring things back to perspective. Appreciate it!

Love you all! God bless you all.