Marsupial Distribution Refutes YECism

[NobleMouse]

Wondering also if marsupials were a bit too vulnerable after the flood. Their young have a tougher path than other mammals. Could it be humans hunted them early after the flood and their vulnerabilities caused them to go extinct on most of the mainlands? Perhaps Australia was an exception because their early settlers took better care of their ecosystem?

Greetings Calminian and thank you for the kind post ratings! Your idea here on marsupials could very well be true - especially if their fur/skin might have been considered valuable in the cold climate that would have followed the flood.

 

[Calminian]

Greetings Calminian and thank you for the kind post ratings! Your idea here on marsupials could very well be true - especially if their fur/skin might have been considered valuable in the cold climate that would have followed the flood.

Exactly. When it comes to extinctions, humans are always the best explanation. They have a long track record in this area.

 

[Calminian]

They would need another ark because there are thousands of marsupials and flightless birds that they would have to transport to australia, as per your suggestion. No regular everyday boat could do this, only a super boat, perhaps one with divine support.

Again, think! Do you really need one super ship? Or is it more likely multiple smaller ships existed at that time, bringing a few kinds animal kinds at a time?

What I'm asking you to do is think biblically. I realize our starting premises are different. I realize you likely don't buy into the Noah account. But one thing you can do is look at it as an account that could have happened, and ask yourself, if it did happen what are the possibilities?

To me it almost seems unfathomable that if Noah existed and the account of the Ark is true, that his descendants wouldn't been good ship builders. It's almost impossible to believe that. It's also very difficult to believe they didn't take animals with them when the settled new lands.

 

[Job 33:6]

Exactly. When it comes to extinctions, humans are always the best explanation. They have a long track record in this area.

Ok, well let's here your explanation for how mankind produced the marsupial succession.

So you're informed, marsupial fossils are present in an order moving from Asia, to North America, to South America, to Australia, through the succession. And let's hear you add in the timing of the ice age and what evidence you believe exists for that as well as for the formation of the succession.

 

[Job 33:6]

Again, think! Do you really need one super ship? Or is it more likely multiple smaller ships existed at that time, bringing a few kinds animal kinds at a time?

What I'm asking you to do is think biblically. I realize our starting premises are different. I realize you likely don't buy into the Noah account. But one thing you can do is look at it as an account that could have happened, and ask yourself, if it did happen what are the possibilities?

To me it almost seems unfathomable that if Noah existed and the account of the Ark is true, that his descendants wouldn't been good ship builders. It's almost impossible to believe that. It's also very difficult to believe they didn't take animals with them when the settled new lands.

So Noah's sons had an Armada, a fleet of perhaps hundreds or even thousands of ships, and they and their army of followers went and collected hundreds of pairs of marsupials marsupial and flightless bird and put them on their ships and the Armada sailed to Australia.

You are just making all of this up. When did anyone ever open up scripture of the old testament and read about an Armada of thousands of ships transporting marsupials during an ice age? What scripture are you reading? What historic records? What archaeological records?

You're so comfortable just imagining things, but anyone can just imagine anything . But there is no evidence for any of this, not even in scripture.

You aren't even addressing my questions either, you are just imagining things and ignoring my responses.

 

[Calminian]

So Noah's sons had an Armada, a fleet of perhaps hundreds or even thousands of ships...

Oy! Even the most obvious explanations escape you in order to protect your own premises. These problems are easily resolvable. You have hundreds and even thousands of years, yet you resort to a fleet? It's really amazing to listen to you rationalize. No one is suggesting a mass transportation immediately after the flood. Wouldn't it be more rational for migrations and transportations to take place over many generations, just as it does today?

 

[Job 33:6]

Oy! Even the most obvious explanations escape you in order to protect your own premises. These problems are easily resolvable. You have hundreds and even thousands of years, yet you resort to a fleet? It's really amazing to listen to you rationalize. No one is suggesting a mass transportation immediately after the flood. Wouldn't it be more rational for migrations and transportations to take place over many generations, just as it does today?

Again, there is no evidence for this happening and you aren't addressing my responses. You're just offering an opinion without substantiating it.

I've asked for your explanation of how mankind has caused the succession. I've asked for your evidence regarding your claim about ice ages, I've asked about archaeological or even historical records supporting your ideas, and you are simply responding by saying "oh well here is what I imagine to be true. It makes sense to me, therefore it must be real". Your ideas are not even described in scripture.

 

[Job 33:6]

So anyway, you can't just say...oh this one is easy, ice ages, hundreds of deliveries, animal extinctions at the hands of people...then not actually back it up.

 

[Job 33:6]

Also the reason I suggested a giant Armada is because if they didn't do it all at once, they'd be going around searching for marsupials and flightless birds out in the world and they'd have to gather them all. Could you imagine going and searching for every single kiwi and ostrich and kangaroo etc.? There are hundreds of species that would need to be gathered and if it wasn't done all at once right after the flood, those species would breed and expand in geographic location. Thereby becoming more difficult to gather.

 

[Job 33:6]

And imagine if people did wait 100s or even thousands of years to transport these species. That's hundreds of years in which these animals replicate and travel. Imagine moles for example, they hide and live underground and give them 100 or 1000 years and instead of 2 of every kind, you have 200 of every kind and they are dispersed in the environment, in the woods, in the trees, underground etc. It would be exceedingly more challenging to gather every single one of them. It would make more sense if Noah's sons had an Armada of a hundred ships and took the pairs straight off of Noah's ark, otherwise Noah's sons would be scouring every square foot of perhaps an entire country or even continent to find them all.

But again, all of this is hypothetically and has no evidence or scriptural basis, these are just imaginary concepts.

 

[Calminian]

Again, there is no evidence for this happening and you aren't addressing my responses. You're just offering an opinion without substantiating it....

You're asking for evidence that animals have ever in history been transported by humans on ships? Well let me ask you this. Do you believe Noah took animals on an Ark? If the answer is yes, you're conceding the point.

 

[Job 33:6]

You're asking for evidence that animals have ever in history been transported by humans on ships? Well let me ask you this. Do you believe Noah took animals on an Ark? If the answer is yes, you're conceding the point.

You aren't even responding to me. As if you aren't reading my words.

When you are actually ready to respond to my words, feel free to let me know.

 

[Job 33:6]

I'll just repeat myself,

I've asked for your explanation of how mankind has caused the succession. I've asked for your evidence regarding your claim about ice ages, I've asked about archaeological or even historical records supporting your ideas, and you are simply responding by saying "oh well here is what I imagine to be true. It makes sense to me, therefore it must be real". Your ideas are not even described in scripture.

I'm not asking if any old invasive species has ever existed, I'm asking for evidence for hundreds of species of marsupials and flightless birds, being transported.

Also, every single animal of these species must have been transported. None could be left behind because if any we're left behind, they wouldn't be endemic to Australia. So Noah's sons would be on a grand hunt for every single animal of hundreds of species, dispersed and underground, in trees, in rivers etc to gather every one of these animals. This is far more extraordinary than a case of some boat from China carrying stink bugs to america.

And there is no evidence for any of this happening, no archaeological evidence, no scriptural evidence, no scientific evidence, no historical evidence, no evidence for this ice age, no explanation for how mankind created this succession etc.

It's all just imaginary. So I'm asking you to show me the evidence .

 

[Calminian]

You aren't even responding to me. As if you aren't reading my words.

When you are actually ready to respond to my words, feel free to let me know.

I will respond to your post, I'm just asking you a question first. Do you believe Noah took animals on an Ark?

It's a very easy question, a simple yes or no will do. Then I'll answer your post.

 

[Job 33:6]

Yes I do. Your turn then.

 

[NobleMouse]

Yes I do. Your turn then.

Good morning K-BIF! I have to admit I am still taken back a little by this response. I don't want to distract away from the conversation you are having with Calminian, or the topic of this thread, but I believe your position (from our past conversations) is that the flood of Noah's time was a local/regional flood. And if you feel a different thread to discuss would be better, just let me know.

Of course, I believe the flood was intended to destroy all life on land outside of the ark and so a global flood seems more fitting to accomplish this - but that aside I am genuinely interested to hear your perspectives on this event and it's purpose.

Do you believe the flood destroyed all humans and life on land outside of the ark as it states in Genesis 7:22-23?

If yes, do you believe then that all life on land outside the ark was relatively local / within the region of where the flood occurred?

If yes, what event(s) do you believe resulted in the many fossils vastly found from around the world, and why had life not developed anywhere outside of the region of the flood of Noah's time?

Again, if you feel this is better suited for a different thread then let me know... and of course, you're not obligated to answer any of these - I'm just wanted to know how the flood is viewed from an OEC/TE perspective (understanding there may be multiple views on this) and your views as to how this fits into the geologic/fossil record.

God bless and have a good day!

 

[Calminian]

Yes I do. Your turn then.

Okay, great. So you asking me for evidence of something we already agree on. There is a history of humans housing animals on boats and it goes all the way back to Noah.

So there you go! I didn't make it up. I pulled it from a reliable source we both agree on. We also both agree there were once land bridges due to the ice age we just disagree about the timeframe.

Bam! You're up.

 

[Job 33:6]

Okay, great. So you asking me for evidence of something we already agree on. There is a history of humans housing animals on boats and it goes all the way back to Noah.

So there you go! I didn't make it up. I pulled it from a reliable source we both agree on. We also both agree there were once land bridges due to the ice age we just disagree about the timeframe.

Bam! You're up.

Your inability to distinguish between concepts (Noahs Ark and Noahs sons gathering marsupials with an armada during a mysterious ice age with mankind simultaneously causing extinction of other marsupials), makes this conversation pointless.

You have already made it clear already that you are unable to distinguish between the two. Beyond that, you are unable to justify your position, which is why you haven't even attempted to justify your words, even when I've asked you to multiple times.

 

[Job 33:6]

So there you go! I didn't make it up. I pulled it from a reliable source we both agree on. We also both agree there were once land bridges due to the ice age we just disagree about the timeframe.
Bam! You're up.

This is why public schools do not teach bizarre young earther concepts like the ones you believe in. You are just imagining concepts and aren't bothering to justify any of them. Strange ideas of an armada of ships gathering all the marsupials and shipping them to australia, leaving none behind. If done without an armada all at once, then these ideas involve noahs sons scouring the land, the seas, the forests, underground etc. to gather all of these animals over who knows what expanse of land. Its just bizarre and unsupported by any historic or scriptural or scientific evidence. Its strange.

I just can't take you seriously.

When you are ready to actually justify your words, i will be here. Otherwise, have a good one.

 

[Calminian]

This is why public schools do not teach bizarre concepts like the ones you believe in. You are just imagining concepts and aren't bothering to justify any of them.

I just can't take you seriously. When you are ready to actually justify your words, i will be here. Otherwise, have a good one.

Well I can safely assume you're out of arguments. Here come the insults. And you're back on the Armada thing again. Sad. You'll never escape evolution with this type of rationalizing.