Marriage

[listed]

Since this is a different area I'm thinking different participants and ideas.

I would like to know what people here think about marriage. This can be in any relationship such as a religious or non religious context.

What is marriage in our society?

Some hold it is a partnership contract with no specific written terms. I hold this may be very true especially when or if the relationship came to termination by other means except death.

I've been told I should consider a relationship licensed by the state to live comunnally without marriage. I'm not sure if this would include benifits or not. Would you even consider such a thing?

Speaking of which would you consider a prenuptial agreement. If so what would be the important factors for you?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I think marriage is a religious institution for the most part.

I don't think you need a piece of paper and a blessing from the clergy to make the decision that you love someone and want to spend the rest of your life with them.

I just find it odd that society encourages the choice by offering tax breaks and cheaper healthcare. Kind of unfair to those people who don't get married... It would be like if they offerered the same breaks to someone who like pizza vs. someone who doesn't.

 

[Jade Margery]

I just find it odd that society encourages the choice by offering tax breaks and cheaper healthcare. Kind of unfair to those people who don't get married... It would be like if they offerered the same breaks to someone who like pizza vs. someone who doesn't.

Part of that is just risk analysis. Married/attached people are likelier to be healthier or better cared for than their single friends, because they have someone looking out for them or telling them not to do stupid stuff. Lower risk = lower health insurance rates.

And I don't think marriage is a religious institution, because historically it just doesn't pan out. Almost every culture in the entire world has some form of marriage, the pairing of two (or more) people into family units, and many of them have no religious component at all.

So to me, marriage is a serious social commitment to share your life with another person, to become family to someone you have no blood relation to. The exact terms of the contract are to be determined by the two people engaged in forming it, but are commonly based on love, respect, support, sexual exclusivity, shared values, and partnership. If entered into honestly and thoughtfully, it can be a beautiful thing even if it doesn't last the whole rest of their lives. If done carelessly or for the wrong reasons, it can get ugly. The benefits and meaning of a marriage depend very much on the people getting married.

 

[Genersis]

I think of it as a contract between two people which grant them special benefits through laws.
And is entered into, nowadays, for reasons of a couple loving one another and wishing to spend the rest of their lives together.

The religion part of a marriage being optional and to the couples personal religious views.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Part of that is just risk analysis. Married/attached people are likelier to be healthier or better cared for than their single friends, because they have someone looking out for them or telling them not to do stupid stuff. Lower risk = lower health insurance rates.

Not questioning your statement, but do you have any studies or stats that back up this statement?

I would have to think that a married couple with children would have much more healthcare costs than a single person.

 

[Jade Margery]

Not questioning your statement, but do you have any studies or stats that back up this statement?

I would have to think that a married couple with children would have much more healthcare costs than a single person.

The Case for Marriage: Why Married People Are Happier, Healthier, and Better off Financially | PsychPage

Single people may die younger, new study finds - Health - Behavior - msnbc.com

Marriage and Life Expectancy – Being Married Improves Life Expectancy

There's also just the fact that most things are cheaper when you buy them in multiples. Insurance companies make more money if they can get two people paying slightly less for insurance than one person paying slightly more, and children are actually a pretty safe bet insurance-wise because a) parents will almost always be willing to pay to protect them and b) kids are less likely to get expensively sick with things like cancer or aids than adults, so offering coverage for an entire family at a slightly lower rate can net a company several customers at once at a profit.

I'm actually not sure what tax breaks two married people without kids get, but married people are only going to pay property tax on one house instead of two so that's a start. I understand tax breaks for people with kids though, since raising healthy educated children is what helps our society be strong in the future and therefore society has an incentive to make that easier/cheaper for people to do.

 

[listed]

The Case for Marriage: Why Married People Are Happier, Healthier, and Better off Financially[bless and do not curse]|[bless and do not curse]PsychPage

Single people may die younger, new study finds - Health - Behavior - msnbc.com

Marriage and Life Expectancy – Being Married Improves Life Expectancy

There's also just the fact that most things are cheaper when you buy them in multiples. Insurance companies make more money if they can get two people paying slightly less for insurance than one person paying slightly more, and children are actually a pretty safe bet insurance-wise because a) parents will almost always be willing to pay to protect them and b) kids are less likely to get expensively sick with things like cancer or aids than adults, so offering coverage for an entire family at a slightly lower rate can net a company several customers at once at a profit.

I'm actually not sure what tax breaks two married people without kids get, but married people are only going to pay property tax on one house instead of two so that's a start. I understand tax breaks for people with kids though, since raising healthy educated children is what helps our society be strong in the future and therefore society has an incentive to make that easier/cheaper for people to do.

I only see assumptions and cheaper by the dozen. But a dozen is still more expensive than a single one of anything.

My mother haw been single for more than 30 years and I have been single for more than 60. So I don't see your point.

An interesting thing I see is that divorced people seem to remarry rather quickly. Is it an addiction or something?

I kinda doubting that physical pleasure isn't worth the price. But I also note the price of being single is extremely high. It is at least peaceful for those having high morals and solid relationship with God.

There are tons more older single (at least people with out a spouce) these days. I also note more singles among the younger crowd. I hear frequently that marriage isn't worth it from some married people. I hear others saying yes to a spouce just to get along. Not my idea of healthy. So do they get married just to have a boss who can take you to the cleaners for life if they don't want you?

 

[listed]

I'm still hoping that other questions I asked in the OP will be discussed.

 

[wanderingone]

Marriage is whatever the people choosing to marry consider it.

Basically I feel that marriage entered into with a license is a contract between 2 people basically agreeing to the legal rights and responsibilities their state provides to /imposes on married people.

The REAL meaning of marriage is whatever the parties who form an agreement to commit to each other believe it to mean in terms of how they will conduct their lives together, and that meaning includes how married is viewed in the context of their culture (including religion)

I don't view marriage itself as a religious event, for those who view marriage as having rules and implications dictated by their spiritual beliefs then marriage is.. like all life choices part of their religious life.

 

[listed]

Marriage is whatever the people choosing to marry consider it.

Basically I feel that marriage entered into with a license is a contract between 2 people basically agreeing to the legal rights and responsibilities their state provides to /imposes on married people.

The REAL meaning of marriage is whatever the parties who form an agreement to commit to each other believe it to mean in terms of how they will conduct their lives together, and that meaning includes how married is viewed in the context of their culture (including religion)

I don't view marriage itself as a religious event, for those who view marriage as having rules and implications dictated by their spiritual beliefs then marriage is.. like all life choices part of their religious life.

Interesting.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The Case for Marriage: Why Married People Are Happier, Healthier, and Better off Financially[bless and do not curse]|[bless and do not curse]PsychPage

Single people may die younger, new study finds - Health - Behavior - msnbc.com

Marriage and Life Expectancy – Being Married Improves Life Expectancy

There's also just the fact that most things are cheaper when you buy them in multiples. Insurance companies make more money if they can get two people paying slightly less for insurance than one person paying slightly more, and children are actually a pretty safe bet insurance-wise because a) parents will almost always be willing to pay to protect them and b) kids are less likely to get expensively sick with things like cancer or aids than adults, so offering coverage for an entire family at a slightly lower rate can net a company several customers at once at a profit.

I'm actually not sure what tax breaks two married people without kids get, but married people are only going to pay property tax on one house instead of two so that's a start. I understand tax breaks for people with kids though, since raising healthy educated children is what helps our society be strong in the future and therefore society has an incentive to make that easier/cheaper for people to do.

I don't know if what's in those articles can be list as facts or guesses and a lot of "what if" situations pertaining to the health of one person vs another.

A lot of those speculation arguments could be made in favor of the other side as well. One could say that if a person is single with no kids, they've spent more time focusing on their career and more likely to be economically stable. I have friends who are my age with kids and I have a lot more disposable income than them and a bigger savings account.

Now, does this mean anything, probably not. I'm sure you can find unhealthy families that are poor, and healthy single people that are rich. I don't think married vs unmarried hasn't any statistical impact. I think it probably just depends on the individual(s).

So I guess I'm thinking that the government and health care providers shouldn't be trying their hand at social engineering by encouraging behavior.

 

[Publius]

Since this is a different area I'm thinking different participants and ideas.

I would like to know what people here think about marriage. This can be in any relationship such as a religious or non religious context.

What is marriage in our society?

Marriage is the illustration of Christ's relationship with the Church, with the husband playing the role of Christ and the wife playing the role of the Church.

Speaking of which would you consider a prenuptial agreement. If so what would be the important factors for you?

Ah, nothing lays the foundation for a good marriage like saying, "I don't trust you to honor the covenant you've made with me, so sign this paper promising you won't take half my stuff when you leave".

 

[listed]

Marriage is the illustration of Christ's relationship with the Church, with the husband playing the role of Christ and the wife playing the role of the Church.

I fully understand this and isn't what I'm interest in talking about here. One can see my interest in man's relationship to God in GT if they wish. I'm not interested in discussiong theology here.

Ah, nothing lays the foundation for a good marriage like saying, "I don't trust you to honor the covenant you've made with me, so sign this paper promising you won't take half my stuff when you leave".

In light of current trends and behaviour I think one is a fool to go into any relationship lasting more than a few minutes without a signed legal agreement. Emotions get in the way of truth way to often. Emotions aren't a good evaluator of facts or character. While I find love to be a decision it is all to often based on emotion. Everytime I make an emotional based decsion it have a detramental problem to deal with. It absloutely is destroying and devastating to me. Ususally takes a very long time to recover.

 

[Jade Margery]

Well, I've already told you what I think marriage is, so I'll try to address your other questions/comments.

I've been told I should consider a relationship licensed by the state to live comunnally without marriage. I'm not sure if this would include benifits or not. Would you even consider such a thing?

I'd have to know more about what that means and who you'd get the license with to make a call on that one.

Speaking of which would you consider a prenuptial agreement. If so what would be the important factors for you?

I think I would, yes. Used to think not, like it's just expecting the marriage to fail, but after talking to others I can see how one would be useful. My parents went through a very messy divorce and ten years later were still fighting over whose stuff was whose and who got to spend time with the kids when, and it was very bitter.

I think a good pre-nup would be, not a plan-b, but like a plan-z, a last resort if the marriage turns out to absolutely not work. I mean, who you are right now and who you are going to be in five, ten, fifteen years, simply isn't the same person. Everyone changes a little and some people change a lot, so even the most solid, loving relationship could eventually go bad. You just don't know. So I think it's better to have a plan in place for what to do if things do go badly, and to make that plan while you still love that person and want the best for them. If my parents had decided how they would split up before they started to want to hurt each other, they might have both come off better for it.

I -don't- think it should contain traps or pitfalls for either partner, like 'if you cheat on me, you don't get the car'. It should be an outline for how to divide up the couple's belongings and responsibilities fairly and equally, and it should be revisited every couple years just to make sure everything is up to date.

An interesting thing I see is that divorced people seem to remarry rather quickly. Is it an addiction or something?

The cause would seem pretty logical at a glance, though there may be factors I'm not aware of. But unless a marriage is violent or just terrifically bad, people will stay married for a long time because it's better than nothing or they don't want to be alone or they have kids and think they couldn't run a whole house by themselves, no matter how unhappy they are in the relationship. But then perhaps they meet somebody new, someone they like a lot more than their current spouse, and all the reasons for not getting divorced and marrying the new person kind of fade away.

Basically it's just the old adage, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. People are more likely to leave a less than satisfactory partner if they have a back up waiting at the altar.

In light of current trends and behaviour I think one is a fool to go into any relationship lasting more than a few minutes without a signed legal agreement. Emotions get in the way of truth way to often. Emotions aren't a good evaluator of facts or character. While I find love to be a decision it is all to often based on emotion. Everytime I make an emotional based decsion it have a detramental problem to deal with. It absloutely is destroying and devastating to me. Ususally takes a very long time to recover.

I am sorry you have been burned before. Some people have good experiences with love, some people have bad ones. Mine have all been pretty good so far, so I don't really know what to tell you. I'll say this though, love usually isn't a decision you get to make. You can't decide, 'I'm going to love this person' or 'I'm not going to love you any more'. Love is an emotion that takes your whole body hostage--you can either fight it or just enjoy the ride and hope it doesn't hurt too much when it ends. And if you're very very lucky, it might never end. My grandparents got that. My mom seems to have found it on her second try, though only time will tell.

I think it's better to feel both the good and the bad, the love and heartbreak and happiness and pain, than to avoid the whole show. Even hurting can remind you you're alive. But maybe when I am your age I will have a different take on it.

 

[listed]

Well, I've already told you what I think marriage is, so I'll try to address your other questions/comments.

I'd have to know more about what that means and who you'd get the license with to make a call on that one.



I think I would, yes. Used to think not, like it's just expecting the marriage to fail, but after talking to others I can see how one would be useful. My parents went through a very messy divorce and ten years later were still fighting over whose stuff was whose and who got to spend time with the kids when, and it was very bitter.

I think a good pre-nup would be, not a plan-b, but like a plan-z, a last resort if the marriage turns out to absolutely not work. I mean, who you are right now and who you are going to be in five, ten, fifteen years, simply isn't the same person. Everyone changes a little and some people change a lot, so even the most solid, loving relationship could eventually go bad. You just don't know. So I think it's better to have a plan in place for what to do if things do go badly, and to make that plan while you still love that person and want the best for them. If my parents had decided how they would split up before they started to want to hurt each other, they might have both come off better for it.

I -don't- think it should contain traps or pitfalls for either partner, like 'if you cheat on me, you don't get the car'. It should be an outline for how to divide up the couple's belongings and responsibilities fairly and equally, and it should be revisited every couple years just to make sure everything is up to date.



The cause would seem pretty logical at a glance, though there may be factors I'm not aware of. But unless a marriage is violent or just terrifically bad, people will stay married for a long time because it's better than nothing or they don't want to be alone or they have kids and think they couldn't run a whole house by themselves, no matter how unhappy they are in the relationship. But then perhaps they meet somebody new, someone they like a lot more than their current spouse, and all the reasons for not getting divorced and marrying the new person kind of fade away.

Basically it's just the old adage, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. People are more likely to leave a less than satisfactory partner if they have a back up waiting at the altar.



I am sorry you have been burned before. Some people have good experiences with love, some people have bad ones. Mine have all been pretty good so far, so I don't really know what to tell you. I'll say this though, love usually isn't a decision you get to make. You can't decide, 'I'm going to love this person' or 'I'm not going to love you any more'. Love is an emotion that takes your whole body hostage--you can either fight it or just enjoy the ride and hope it doesn't hurt too much when it ends. And if you're very very lucky, it might never end. My grandparents got that. My mom seems to have found it on her second try, though only time will tell.

I think it's better to feel both the good and the bad, the love and heartbreak and happiness and pain, than to avoid the whole show. Even hurting can remind you you're alive. But maybe when I am your age I will have a different take on it.

I have a friend that told me they have come to believe their spouce finally loves them. Qute a revelation I thought.

We have become a very superficial society.

 

[Publius]

I fully understand this and isn't what I'm interest in talking about here. One can see my interest in man's relationship to God in GT if they wish. I'm not interested in discussiong theology here.

Sorry. When you asked what marriage is, I just assumed you were sincere.

In light of current trends and behaviour I think one is a fool to go into any relationship lasting more than a few minutes without a signed legal agreement. Emotions get in the way of truth way to often. Emotions aren't a good evaluator of facts or character. While I find love to be a decision it is all to often based on emotion. Everytime I make an emotional based decsion it have a detramental problem to deal with. It absloutely is destroying and devastating to me. Ususally takes a very long time to recover.

Like I said, nothing lays the foundation for a healthy marriage like telling someone "I don't trust you to honor the covenant you've made with me".

 

[Jade Margery]

I have a friend that told me they have ome to believe their spouce finally loves them. Qute a revelation I thought.

We have become a very superficial society.

Actually that sounds pretty old-fashioned to me. Historically, marriages were about property and politics, not mutual love and support. You got very little choice in who you married, especially if you were a girl, and may have only seen the person a couple times before the wedding. You didn't get married because you were in love, you were supposed to fall in love because you got married, after the fact.

I would say that since people are no longer choosing spouses based on how big a dowry their parents can provide (at least in our country) that we are a much less superficial society than we were.

 

[selfinflikted]

*spouse.

 

[Mling]

Actually that sounds pretty old-fashioned to me. Historically, marriages were about property and politics, not mutual love and support. You got very little choice in who you married, especially if you were a girl, and may have only seen the person a couple times before the wedding. You didn't get married because you were in love, you were supposed to fall in love because you got married, after the fact.

I would say that since people are no longer choosing spouses based on how big a dowry their parents can provide (at least in our country) that we are a much less superficial society than we were.

I sorta go both ways on this--at least, in the final judgement of which is "better." Certainly, choosing for love is better than choosing for the size of the dowry. But I think choosing a spouse based on the idea of "we can provide each other with good lives," is better than choosing based on, "We're so madly, passionately in love!"

I think, in valuing the abstract notion of romantic love over all else, a lot of people lose sight of a deeper kind of love that comes from knowing that you and so-and-so can create better lives together than either of you could on your own--in valuing somebody as a true "partner." People don't write gushy poetry about it, but that's a kind of love that isn't likely to collapse when things get difficult.

There are definitely negative extremes in both the "marriage for greed and ambition," mindset and "marriage for twue loooove" mindset, but I think less extreme version of the first: "marriage for the very practical reason that you are likely to build good lives together" is a very good one to keep in mind, and gets discarded unfairly for being insufficiently romantic.

 

[InThePinc]

Hi,

I'm getting married for the second time in 5 days (12th may). I was 22 the first time and I'm 30 this time. My first marriage broke down because of medical reasons (can go into detail if you'd like me to). Marriage to me is important and not in a religious way at all but because for me it's making a comittment to someone and you are bound legally to that person. I think it gives you more stability especially for children. I would not want to have children without being married first. It's just my opinion and not saying what's right or wrong xx