Marriage is a Christian construct?

[shirono]

I'm curious to know how (and when) this belief appeared in the world. It seems like blatant ethnocentrism (religiocentrism?) to believe that your belief system is the sole purveyor of marital bliss (bliss may not fit everyone, I suppose). Many other religions perform marriage and did so long before Christianity came into their culture.

Buddhism, Hinduism, Shinto, Islam, Judaism, Native American religions, Nordic religions, and many others have marriage rituals in them. Some are extraordinarily different from the Christian rituals that seem to be the "norm" for culture today.

I ask this because I hear Christians go on about gay marriage where they state things like "marriage is mandated by God and he says gay people are evil and so they can't get married". Marriage isn't your construct and who says that anyone means a Christian church wedding when they say that they are getting married? To assume that they are looking for a pastor to marry them is arrogant.

For instance, one of my best friends was married in a Wiccan ceremony by a Wiccan priestess who got herself a license to marry.


(Let me make this clear, this is not a debate about gay marriage, merely a debate on whether it is right to say marriage is a Christian institution.)

 

[Singermom]

Buddhism, Hinduism, Shinto, Islam, Judaism, Native American religions, Nordic religions, and many others have marriage rituals in them.

You kind of answer your own question here. They all have marriage rituals in them, set up by their God.

Hence, marriage is mandated by God.

 

[revanneosl]

You are absolutely correct. The only point I would add is that historically the institution of marriage (in all of its many forms) predates the beginning of Christianity.

 

[shirono]

You are absolutely correct. The only point I would add is that historically the institution of marriage (in all of its many forms) predates the beginning of Christianity.

Ah, yes, that was kind of my point in including Hinduism up there. It is a religion that pre-dates Christianity.

But thanks for pointing that out

You kind of answer your own question here. They all have marriage rituals in them, set up by their God.

Hence, marriage is mandated by God.

No, I actually didn't answer my own question.

These rituals were set up by religions that have DIFFERENT gods than Christianity and (some) Christians still believe that marriage is their construct. That's what I'm trying to understand.

A marriage ritual mandated by Odin or Brahma is not a Christian marriage ritual clearly, so I still don't know how Christians got that idea.

Unless you are arguing that all of the gods are one in the same and worshiping any god is the same as worshiping the Christian god, which is a very progressive belief.

 

[pgp_protector]

You kind of answer your own question here. They all have marriage rituals in them, set up by their God.

Hence, marriage is mandated by God.

IF that was true, then you're stating that their gods are also God, and that all gods are God.

 

[Mling]

You kind of answer your own question here. They all have marriage rituals in them, set up by their God.

Hence, marriage is mandated by God.

Are you a strong polytheist ("Yes. Odin, Kali and Quetzelcoatle are all individual gods in their own rights, and should be worshipped individually") or soft ("Different gods do exist in a sense, but they are actually facets of one greater divine being"?)

Either way, it's an unusual tact for a Christian. I mean, for a while, *I* believed that the Christian religion was merely one non-unique way of worshipping a God who could also be acknowledged and worshipped through other religions.....but that was really just my way of struggling with a lack of belief in Christianity. If you're going through a similar loss of faith, feel free to PM me, if you like.

Also...have you actually researched marriage rituals in all these cultures and affirmed that they all believed their weddings were a part of religious worship, as opposed to being a secular custom?

 

[Gecko King]

IF that was true, then you're stating that their gods are also God, and that all gods are God.

If I set up a marriage ritual, will I become a God too?

Apotheosis has never been easier.

 

[shirono]

If I set up a marriage ritual, will I become a God too?

Apotheosis has never been easier.

If you set up the ritual as part of religion in which you are a god and manage to dupe people into worshiping you...then I suppose you would be a "god" to them. Not all that different from most religions...only you would be referred to as a cult until you had a ridiculous number of followers, or 1,000 years has gone by.

 

[Glas Ridire]

Marriage is a Christian construct?

No.

Marriage isn't your construct and who says that anyone means a Christian church wedding when they say that they are getting married? To assume that they are looking for a pastor to marry them is arrogant.

Agreed. This is one of the reasons why the government licensing marriage should be outlawed & any law forbidding or requiring the honoring of gay/polygymous/etc marriage should be striken from the books. All religions should be respected & allowed to do marriage according to the edicts of their faith, given equal weight and honor within the law. That would be

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

 

[pgp_protector]

If I set up a marriage ritual, will I become a God too?

Apotheosis has never been easier.

Is it true that all gods are God?

 

[shirono]

No.

Agreed. This is one of the reasons why the government licensing marriage should be outlawed & any law forbidding or requiring the honoring of gay/polygymous/etc marriage should be striken from the books. All religions should be respected & allowed to do marriage according to the edicts of their faith, given equal weight and honor within the law. That would be

That is one thing I agree with. Anyone wishing to have the legal benefits that are now connected to marriage should have a civil union. After that anyone who wants a "marriage" can go to a church, temple, Wicca priestess, ship captain, and get one.

And if any of these organizations chooses to grant same-sex or polygamous marriages then they are allowed to do that as they choose.

In the same vein, anyone who doesn't want the civil union is not required to have it. They can simply have a marriage without the legal benefits if they so choose.

However, the common sense behind such an idea seems to allude many people in the government and in religious and civil rights groups.

 

[No Swansong]

To be fair I'm not sure I have ever met a Christian who believed that marriage is a Christian construct. I do believe that marriage is God ordained but that doesn't mean that God did not reveal this to those who preceded Christianity. I don't for a minute believe that God has not revealed Himself or His will to others who are not Jewish or Christian. Of course I believe that perhaps these "others" have an imperfect understanding of God's will but that is not something I can prove empirically.

 

[Brak]

Obviously Christian marriage evolved from ancient Judaism. Christians tend to have an admiration for the Jewish customs, and that includes marriage.

The more intriguing question in my mind is, did God create MONOGAMY? The Jewish marriages in the Old Testament are polygamous, and those who did it are not regarded by the Bible as bad people. It seems that the switch to monogamy also predated Christianity, but the Bible doesn't ever seem to come out and say it. Did God change?

The issue of slavery is in a similar situation. Both Old and New Testament acknowledge slavery, and neither condemns it. Do we, then, say that God created slavery? It's not entirely an apples-to-apples comparison, granted, since Genesis does say things like "God created them male and female, and the two shall be one flesh". No such passage along the lines of "God created them master and slave" exists.

 

[Belk]

I'm curious to know how (and when) this belief appeared in the world. It seems like blatant ethnocentrism (religiocentrism?) to believe that your belief system is the sole purveyor of marital bliss (bliss may not fit everyone, I suppose). Many other religions perform marriage and did so long before Christianity came into their culture.

Buddhism, Hinduism, Shinto, Islam, Judaism, Native American religions, Nordic religions, and many others have marriage rituals in them. Some are extraordinarily different from the Christian rituals that seem to be the "norm" for culture today.

I ask this because I hear Christians go on about gay marriage where they state things like "marriage is mandated by God and he says gay people are evil and so they can't get married". Marriage isn't your construct and who says that anyone means a Christian church wedding when they say that they are getting married? To assume that they are looking for a pastor to marry them is arrogant.

For instance, one of my best friends was married in a Wiccan ceremony by a Wiccan priestess who got herself a license to marry.


(Let me make this clear, this is not a debate about gay marriage, merely a debate on whether it is right to say marriage is a Christian institution.)

I seem to recall reading the marriage earliest roots (that we know of) are secular in nature. I think it might of been included in the code of Hammurabi, but I will have to double check that to be sure.

 

[shirono]

Obviously Christian marriage evolved from ancient Judaism. Christians tend to have an admiration for the Jewish customs, and that includes marriage.

Yes, but that's "christian" marriage, not the idea of marriage itself, which clearly predates Christianity and Judaism. However, more than a few Christians still seem to use the argument of "Marriage is ordained by God, so we get to decide who can marry and who can't."

The more intriguing question in my mind is, did God create MONOGAMY? The Jewish marriages in the Old Testament are polygamous, and those who did it are not regarded by the Bible as bad people. It seems that the switch to monogamy also predated Christianity, but the Bible doesn't ever seem to come out and say it. Did God change?

Good question, poly-amorous relationships were the norm in quite a few ancient cultures, Greece and Rome to name two of them. In Greece, as far as I know, poly-amorous marriages were not common, but a man and a woman would marry to have heirs and both women and men commonly had homosexual relationships on the side.

I seem to recall reading the marriage earliest roots (that we know of) are secular in nature. I think it might of been included in the code of Hammurabi, but I will have to double check that to be sure.

I'm not certain, the Code of Hammurabi isn't something I'm very familiar with outside of a general knowledge of what it is.
Of course these facts don't seem to deter the religious organizations (Westboro Baptist, 700 club, focus on the family, etc) who believe that marriage is something that they should be able to control because it "belongs" to their religion.

 

[pgp_protector]

So if Marriage has Pagan Origins will it be avoided like Christmas ?

 

[Archer93]

No.

Agreed. This is one of the reasons why the government licensing marriage should be outlawed & any law forbidding or requiring the honoring of gay/polygymous/etc marriage should be striken from the books. All religions should be respected & allowed to do marriage according to the edicts of their faith, given equal weight and honor within the law. That would be

You're contradicting yourself.
If a religion that is happy with gay marriage, like the Quakers, wants to carry them out under the aegis of their faith, then by your stated preference those marriages should be given 'equal weight and honor within the law'.
This is not compatable with 'any law forbidding or requiring the honoring of gay/polygymous/etc marriage should be striken from the books'.

 

[Archer93]

That is one thing I agree with. Anyone wishing to have the legal benefits that are now connected to marriage should have a civil union. After that anyone who wants a "marriage" can go to a church, temple, Wicca priestess, ship captain, and get one.

And if any of these organizations chooses to grant same-sex or polygamous marriages then they are allowed to do that as they choose.

In the same vein, anyone who doesn't want the civil union is not required to have it. They can simply have a marriage without the legal benefits if they so choose.

However, the common sense behind such an idea seems to allude many people in the government and in religious and civil rights groups.

It would be great if there was a solid, clear difference between the terminology used to refer to a secular recognition of a commitment and the religious version of the same, but why does religion get to nick the term 'marriage'?
How about you can get legally married, and if you want a religious union you can arrange that via your faith?

 

[MoonLancer]

You kind of answer your own question here. They all have marriage rituals in them, set up by their God.

Hence, marriage is mandated by God.

That's a fallacy of equivocation.

 

[shirono]

It would be great if there was a solid, clear difference between the terminology used to refer to a secular recognition of a commitment and the religious version of the same, but why does religion get to nick the term 'marriage'?
How about you can get legally married, and if you want a religious union you can arrange that via your faith?

I could agree with that, it's just that I'm trying to please everyone with my solution and religious folks seem so obsessed with the semantics of the word marriage. I figure if they are going to be so obsessively attached that we could give them that one concession, but I'm not married (hehe, I think I'm so funny) to the idea.