Mark Driscoll

zhilan · Jan 26, 2009

I saw him mentioned in another thread here so I assume he is well known in the Reformed community. Anyway, there was an article on him in the local paper (I live in Seattle where his church is) and I was intrigued so I started listening to his sermons online. I was curious what you guys think of him? I have to say I've been quite surprised. While on certain big issues I totally disagree with him (predestination, total depravity, etc), I also must say that I nonetheless really like his sermons and have been amazed that in other areas I have found him to be amazingly spot on with Orthodox understandings and also just good Christian preaching (I was especially impressed with his sermon on the Trinity). Anyway, just interested in your thoughts. Is he a popular guy?

DD2008 · Jan 26, 2009

zhilan said:
I saw him mentioned in another thread here so I assume he is well known in the Reformed community. Anyway, there was an article on him in the local paper (I live in Seattle where his church is) and I was intrigued so I started listening to his sermons online. I was curious what you guys think of him? I have to say I've been quite surprised. While on certain big issues I totally disagree with him (predestination, total depravity, etc), I also must say that I nonetheless really like his sermons and have been amazed that in other areas I have found him to be amazingly spot on with Orthodox understandings and also just good Christian preaching (I was especially impressed with his sermon on the Trinity). Anyway, just interested in your thoughts. Is he a popular guy?

If you're from Seattle why do you have a Chinese flag? I thought you were in China.

I've never heard of the guy you mentioned but I'm new to Calvinism. I'll look him up.

zhilan · Jan 26, 2009

DD2008 said:
If you're from Seattle why do you have a Chinese flag? I thought you were in China.

I've never heard of the guy you mentioned but I'm new to Calvinism. I'll look him up.

I lived in China when I joined CF. =) If you're interested you can find his sermons and such at www.marshillchurch.org

DD2008 · Jan 26, 2009

zhilan said:
I lived in China when I joined CF. =) If you're interested you can find his sermons and such at www.marshillchurch.org

Thanks!

MattHall · Jan 26, 2009

Mark Driscoll is SUPER controversial in the reformed community. But... I'll step out of line and admit that overall I'm supportive of his ministry and teaching.

He can be vulgar and arrogant... which he needs to work on, and has admitted to.

If you were my friend and I was in Seattle I would tell you to attend his church.

MattHall · Jan 26, 2009

Oh... and I think I read the article you did. It had some factual errors... so don't believe everything about it.

zhilan · Jan 26, 2009

What is it that makes him so controversial besides his rather gruff way of talking? Although in most of what I've listened to his language has pretty pretty clean. I admire that he is straight up about sin and he has given me good things to think about, even though as I said, I disagree with him on some key issues, I nonetheless find a lot of what he says to be really good.

ReformedChapin · Jan 26, 2009

zhilan said:
What is it that makes him so controversial besides his rather gruff way of talking? Although in most of what I've listened to his language has pretty pretty clean. I admire that he is straight up about sin and he has given me good things to think about, even though as I said, I disagree with him on some key issues, I nonetheless find a lot of what he says to be really good.

Doesn't hold to a reformed creed. I don't like the fact that he's a 4 pointer but o wells. Theres a few of them running around here already.

zhilan · Jan 27, 2009

ReformedChapin said:
Doesn't hold to a reformed creed. I don't like the fact that he's a 4 pointer but o wells. Theres a few of them running around here already.

What is a 4 pointer? Sorry I don't know much about reformed ideas.

arunma · Jan 27, 2009

I think that Mark Driscoll is an excellent pastor and a beloved brother in Christ. I've heard him preach in person (Desiring God Conference, 2008). He is a very convicting preacher and has some excellent insights into Scripture. And I fully agree with him on predestination, total depravity, etc.

bradfordl · Jan 27, 2009

zhilan said:
What is a 4 pointer? Sorry I don't know much about reformed ideas.

Means he holds to only 4 of the 5 points of calvinism. Usually that means he objects to limited atonement, which would make him an amyrauldian.

MattHall · Jan 27, 2009

He does mess with the limited atonement thing, if I recall. -- Honestly, the rest of his teaching is so effective to his target audience that I cut him more slack than I would another pastor to a different audience. Probably not the right attitude for me to have.

arunma · Jan 27, 2009

MattHall said:
He does mess with the limited atonement thing, if I recall. -- Honestly, the rest of his teaching is so effective to his target audience that I cut him more slack than I would another pastor to a different audience. Probably not the right attitude for me to have.

A friend of mine from church (another Calvinist) often tells me that one day, when the blood is high as a horse's bridle and Christians throughout the world are being persecuted because we live for Christ, small differences in theology like this will stop mattering pretty quickly. Not that doctrine doesn't matter, but it does help me to not reject anyone as a brother unless he believes in some serious heresy (usually something that amounts to liberalism).

MattHall · Jan 27, 2009

arunma said:
A friend of mine from church (another Calvinist) often tells me that one day, when the blood is high as a horse's bridle and Christians throughout the world are being persecuted because we live for Christ, small differences in theology like this will stop mattering pretty quickly. Not that doctrine doesn't matter, but it does help me to not reject anyone as a brother unless he believes in some serious heresy (usually something that amounts to liberalism).

Thank you! This was helpful to me!

desmalia · Jan 27, 2009

I've heard mixed reviews on Mark Driscoll. He's considered part of the Emergent Church movement, though he does not like the label, and I suspect he's probably the only one worth listening to of anyone associated with the EC. He's been nicknamed the "Cussing Pastor" because of his crude and vulgar language. From what I've heard of him, he does not use four-letter-words really, but just has a very crass way of speaking at times, probably for the sake of shock value.

If you're in the Seattle area, I highly recommend Jerry Mitchell's church Crossroads Bible Church in Bellevue. I used to attend there when I lived in Seattle, and it's fantastic.

zhilan · Jan 27, 2009

desmalia said:
I've heard mixed reviews on Mark Driscoll. He's considered part of the Emergent Church movement, though he does not like the label, and I suspect he's probably the only one worth listening to of anyone associated with the EC. He's been nicknamed the "Cussing Pastor" because of his crude and vulgar language. From what I've heard of him, he does not use four-letter-words really, but just has a very crass way of speaking at times, probably for the sake of shock value.

If you're in the Seattle area, I highly recommend Jerry Mitchell's church Crossroads Bible Church in Bellevue. I used to attend there when I lived in Seattle, and it's fantastic.

I've heard of that church as I went to school in Bellevue. I appreciate your suggestions, but I'm not church shopping. I'm very happily Orthodox. I just became intrigued with Driscoll when I read the article and have been surprised to find that I enjoy his online sermons. To be competely honest, I was sort of horrified by the article and went to his website to see how exactly someone could preach what it said he preached and reach Seattle-ites (Seattle is supposedly the least religious city in the country so I was really curious how he could succeed with such a message), but was surprised that in a number of areas I found him to be really on point and enjoyable to listen to.

arunma · Jan 27, 2009

desmalia said:
I've heard mixed reviews on Mark Driscoll. He's considered part of the Emergent Church movement, though he does not like the label, and I suspect he's probably the only one worth listening to of anyone associated with the EC. He's been nicknamed the "Cussing Pastor" because of his crude and vulgar language. From what I've heard of him, he does not use four-letter-words really, but just has a very crass way of speaking at times, probably for the sake of shock value.

If you're in the Seattle area, I highly recommend Jerry Mitchell's church Crossroads Bible Church in Bellevue. I used to attend there when I lived in Seattle, and it's fantastic.

Actually Mark isn't part of the Emergent Church movement, but I think I know why you've heard this. Driscoll is known as "emerging." It means that he is culturally relevant, but I can say with certainty that he is not remotely a supporter of the Emergent Church. That word is really not very helpful, since "emerging" has nothing to do with Emergent. He believes in church authority, in the substitutionary atonement of Christ's sacrifice, and in the doctrine of imputed righteousness.

As for the swearing, the conference I attended was on the usage of words, and he addressed this issue. He (I think rightly) says that we should use harsh language when appropriate, for example when referring to other religions. Some people might not like Mark Driscoll for his style, but ultimately he's one of the good guys.

desmalia · Jan 27, 2009

Thank you for the correction, Arunma, you're right it's emerging, not emergent. My mistake. They are different, but, as you said, both do cater to cultural relevance, which is still concerning. But he's certainly no Brian McLaren. As for his language, I agree that there are times to be harsh (and in fact we don't see enough of that these days in our "PC" world). But crude sexual references really are not appropriate, IMHO. Maybe that is something he will tone down in time.

Epiphoskei · Jan 27, 2009

I've heard Driscoll call himself a "four and a half pointer." But I should be up front that I don't know what exactly he means by that.

A friend of mine was talking about him last saturday. He was really put off by Driscoll's... "style," but he had to say that he preaches the Gospel, which is better than can be said of too many preachers out there.

Beoga · Jan 27, 2009

I am a huge fan of Driscoll, I listen to his sermons on a consistent basis. There are some things I disagree with him (like the L and images of Jesus), but other than these, I really appreciate what he is doing in the most unchurched area of the US.

Mark Driscoll

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