marilynne robinson

[Progguy]

i recently discovered marilynne robinson is a calvinist and a member of my denom the united church of christ.

have u ever read her novels?

 

[JM]

I tried to read Gilead but never finished it. It was slow reading but gave the impression the end would be satisfying.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[JM]

Liberalism...

Q: Gay marriage is one of the culture’s hot-button issues right now. Can people coexist in that controversy?
A: Sometimes I wonder about the authenticity of the controversies themselves. My own denomination (the United Church of Christ), has blessed same-sex relationships and married them as quickly as it became legal in my state. It has been a process that’s gone on for a long time. Nobody gives it a thought, so when you read in the newspaper that there are people calling down brimstone, it’s startling. In time it will become an old issue for the culture that simply will not bring out this kind of thing anymore.
Q: For Christians who hold the view that marriage is between a man and a woman, do you think they’ll become a smaller group over time?
A: It’s hard to know. There has never been a period in world history where same-sex relationships were more routine and normal than in Hellenistic culture at the time of Christ. Does Jesus ever mention the issue? I bet it must have been all around him. You can get in a lot of trouble eating oysters if you are a literalist about Leviticus. I’m a great admirer of the Old Testament. It’s an absolute trove of goodness and richness. But I don’t think we should stone witches. And if you choose to value one or two verses in Leviticus over the enormous, passionate calls for social justice that you find right through the Old Testament, that’s primitive. There are a thousand ways that we would all be doomed for violating the Sabbath and all kinds of other things, if we were literalists.

Q&A: Marilynne Robinson on guns, gay marriage and Calvinism - Religion News Service

 

[Progguy]

it is unsurprising she is liberal since she belongs to the ucc but is that relevant?

the pcusa is also a liberal calvinist denom

 

[JM]

it is unsurprising she is liberal since she belongs to the ucc but is that relevant?

the pcusa is also a liberal calvinist denom

Calvinism is a part of the conservative resurgence, true, but we must prevent it from becoming a watchword by which orthodoxy is judged. Just because someone declares themselves to be a Calvinist doesn’t prevent them from denying Calvinism. The author wrote how she loved Calvin’s metaphysics but utterly denies the only conclusion one can draw from Calvin’s writings in connection with the imagia Deo.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[Progguy]

Calvinism is a part of the conservative resurgence, true, but we must prevent it from becoming a watchword by which orthodoxy is judged. Just because someone declares themselves to be a Calvinist doesn’t prevent them from denying Calvinism. The author wrote how she loved Calvin’s metaphysics but utterly denies the only conclusion one can draw from Calvin’s writings in connection with the imagia Deo.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

i am not sure how she is denying calvinism, she seems pretty much on the ball with calvin

For Robinson, Calvin's theology centers on the belief that God has given individuals the ability to commune with and respond to him without the mediation of priests or bishops. "Perception is at the center of Calvin's theology," she observes; God willingly floods our senses with his grandeur in such a way that we can take it in and reflect it back, his glory "shining forth" as we participate in it. "It is as if we were to find a tender solicitude toward us in the fact that the great energy that rips galaxies apart also animates our slightest thoughts." Think how elevated a vision of the human soul this is, Robinson suggests, and how far it is from how we often view ourselves.

At the same time, our ability to perceive God is deeply compromised. None of us sees clearly; indeed, none of us even desires to. All of us turn away from God's presence, failing "to acknowledge what ought to be obvious," Robinson writes, inclined instead "to indolence and selfishness, dishonesty, pride and error, cruelty." She calls the notion of total depravity the "counterweight to Calvin's rapturous humanism," insisting that we can't understand the one aspect of his thought without the other.

Working together, writes Robinson, these twinned elements of "our strangely mixed nature" mean that the passage of a soul "through the vale of its making, or its destruction" will be marked by halts and recoveries, each attempt to find meaning chastened by a recognition of limits. This almost exactly describes Ruth's voice in Housekeeping, now traced to one of its sources.

Not everyone, however, carries this realization as a great weight, or senses a chance to find release. The doctrine of election, developed in Scripture but popularly associated with Calvin, is a third element for Robinson, who links it to Calvin's focus on perception. True perception—"the radical understanding of the presence of God, and of his nature as manifest in Christ"—is something God must grant a person. It is not natural to our fallen state.

And because God grants such ability entirely according to his own mind, we are brought into a chastening—and, to Robinson, exhilarating—encounter with "the freedom and mystery of God." Far from inducing a dulled passivity, such a doctrine leads to a deepening awareness of the grandeur of God and the fragile beauty of one's neighbors.

 

[JM]

Consider Calvin’s writings on the nature of God, man in God’s image and sin. There is no way one can remain a consistent Calvinist and allow for a redefinition of marriage.

 

[Progguy]

there are calvinists who support the redefinition of marriage

but that is not really what i wanted to talk about

i like robinson's books

and was interested to learn of her calvinism

 

[moonbeam]

there are calvinists who support the redefinition of marriage

but that is not really what i wanted to talk about

i like robinson's books

and was interested to learn of her calvinism

The fact that you "like" Robinson's books is irrelevant.

Robinson denies the scriptural teaching on marriage…she's no more a calvinist than the pope.

You would be better of reading and receiving instruction from the scriptures…and ignoring Robinson.

.

 

[JM]

there are calvinists who support the redefinition of marriage

but that is not really what i wanted to talk about

i like robinson's books

and was interested to learn of her calvinism

Calvinism is defined by scripture and stated in the Reformed Confessions Progguy. I would start there if you want to learn about Calvinism. I don't know enough about Robinson's books to know what she is teaching and if it is historical Calvinism, maybe she hijacked the term and is redefining it like she does marriage? I don't know.

The author does say you should read Calvin. I would do so but with an open Bible so you can check out the passages Cavlin cites in his Institutes.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[drjean]

What do you know about Robinson that appeals to you?

I agree with others... in that just because someone says they are Calvinist doesn't mean they are... I have issues with the UCC claiming any Calvinism and I wonder about their using "Christian" (just as I do not consider PCUSA "Christian" in general, though I know in both there are churches that are sticking to Scripture...) as they do not believe in some basic tenets of Christianity...

We Christians should not allow others to highjack our definitions! (My POV)