Marijuana

[sinan90]

www.erowid.org I find is a great source for drug information, seeing it collects together large number of reports and sources giving a whole range of views. It also seems quite neutral in tone to me.

 

[Da Bomb]

I think the Link above is a very good site. It seems to really try to answer questions, more than scare people into ignorance.

 

[Khameo]

My ideal world is one without drugs. Drugs destroy the body and alter the mind. I don't see anything wrong with an agenda that tries to prevent such things. Do you?

How very, very dull.

 

[Da Bomb]

Since Mary Jane wasn't a drug in Biblical times, I doubt it will be named specifically.

I have read that it CAN in fact have some consequences (Understanding Psychology; Feldman) generally it is fairly safe. BUT, smoking it has roughly the same affect as smoking tobacco and can cause the same sorts of lung and heart diseases that smoking cigarettes does. So to say that there are no deaths and then accuse tobacco of so many is rather silly.

That and I doubt those numbers are properly fitted. THOUSANDS of people smoke cigarettes and very few people use marijuana and since all the people I know who smoke leaves (and yes I do know some) also smoke cigarettes, I fairly sure it would be hard to figure out which one caused the lung cancer. Of course the death rate would be hight for tobacco users since they outnumber all kinds of drug users by thousands of people. It's not really a fair tally.

Why dose every one ignore the fact tat the bible clearly states the use of marijuan as a normal act. Genesis 1:29

 

[WatersMoon110]

How can you put it into the same catatgorie when its in the bible as an herb. Genisi 1:29

Just because something is an herb doesn't mean it can't also be a drug. Cannabis happens to be both, an herb that alters brain function when consumed.

also If you cant reach the toxity limit, IT DOSE NOT HAVE ONE. Thats like saying you can die by holding ones breath to long, one can not hold ones breath long enough to kill ones self, so there for, you can not die by holding you breath, even thought in theory you could state that you could die.

Everything has a toxicity limit. Everything. Just because one can't reach that limit under normal means doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. If someone were to have pure THC in an IV drip, it is potentially possible they could overdose.

 

[WatersMoon110]

Since Mary Jane wasn't a drug in Biblical times, I doubt it will be named specifically.

I have read that it CAN in fact have some consequences (Understanding Psychology; Feldman) generally it is fairly safe. BUT, smoking it has roughly the same affect as smoking tobacco and can cause the same sorts of lung and heart diseases that smoking cigarettes does. So to say that there are no deaths and then accuse tobacco of so many is rather silly.

That and I doubt those numbers are properly fitted. THOUSANDS of people smoke cigarettes and very few people use marijuana and since all the people I know who smoke leaves (and yes I do know some) also smoke cigarettes, I fairly sure it would be hard to figure out which one caused the lung cancer. Of course the death rate would be hight for tobacco users since they outnumber all kinds of drug users by thousands of people. It's not really a fair tally.

Certainly thousands of people also use cannabis. About 20% of the population uses tobacco habitually, an estimated 7-15% uses cannabis habitually.

Turns out cannabis doesn't seem to cause lung cancer at all:

And yet Dr. Donald Tashkin more recently finished a study (link to article about) that found that people who smoke both cannabis and tobacco get less cancer than people who only smoke tobacco. From the article:

"We hypothesized that there would be a positive association between marijuana use and lung cancer, and that the association would be more positive with heavier use," he said. "What we found instead was no association at all, and even a suggestion of some protective effect."

(emphasis mine)
He also did this interview (in two parts):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GJmQ16cGBHU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_6pBw0bgmgA
In which he states that even heavy cannabis smokers get only the chronic bronchitis, but not the decrease in lung function associated with smoking tobacco.

 

[WatersMoon110]

Why dose every one ignore the fact tat the bible clearly states the use of marijuan as a normal act. Genesis 1:29

Okay, okay, I'll bite.

Even if one interprets Genesis 1:29: "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food:"
to mean that cannabis is Biblically allowed to be eaten, would that make it okay to also smoke this plant, as most user consume their cannabis do?

 

[Da Bomb]

Just because something is an herb doesn't mean it can't also be a drug. Cannabis happens to be both, an herb that alters brain function when consumed.

Everything has a toxicity limit. Everything. Just because one can't reach that limit under normal means doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. If someone were to have pure THC in an IV drip, it is potentially possible they could overdose.

HA HA HA HA HA! WOW I haven't laughed that hard in a while. Again even pure THC! all you would do is pass out. And what a ridiculous notion to say some would ever us THC in an IV. Dude or Dudet really, Im hoping to chat with people on this subject who actually, maybe have real world experience in it. Not spiting out propaganda based "DARE" program rhetoric. NO TOXICITY!!! You find the source that states it, Ill be glad to study it, Ill even except it when I see the first human in history die by THC. HA HA HA HA ...I love this forum.

 

[Da Bomb]

Okay, okay, I'll bite.

Even if one interprets Genesis 1:29: "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food:"
to mean that cannabis is Biblically allowed to be eaten, would that make it okay to also smoke this plant, as most user consume their cannabis do?

I do not think we should smoke anything. Smoking a joint as we know it is brand new to human history. Cannabis was processed into (ashish) and then put into religious ornaments to consume the vapor, and even today in most of the rest of the world, it is consumed. In fact its actually VERY wasteful to burn the actual plant, you loose a significant amount of THC upon combustion, but more importantly you put butane and other stuff into your lungs.
Vaporize is the future of Cannabis, and In the next 4 to 10 years America will come to depend on this crop for income. It os already the #1 cash crop in the US. Can you believe that? #1

 

[stan1980]

Cannabis was processed into (ashish) and then put into religious ornaments to consume the vapor, and even today in most of the rest of the world, it is consumed. In fact its actually VERY wasteful to burn the actual plant, you loose a significant amount of THC upon combustion, but more importantly you put butane and other stuff into your lungs.

Are you high?

Edit: you mean hashish, and it is most certainly normally smoked, sometimes eaten. Vaporised? pffft

 

[wanderingone]

Its about time a christian debate on marijuana was started.
So lets debate.
Is it ok to smoke as a christian?
Is cannabis in the bible, more specifically use of any kind?
any verses for or against Marijuana use?

Genesis 1:29 clearly states the use of cannabis or other green herbs as food, and or consumption.
Romans 14:14 clears up any issue when it comes to using it around others. And for the last time QUITE SAYING ITS ILLEGAL !!! Our BILL OF RIGHTS clearly states that a federal Law can not TRUMP a state Law.
California has DECRIMINALIZED it !

It's not about time, it might not come up as often as certain other topics here, but it's certainly been debated before.

I don't feel particularly strongly about the subject. I do think that it should pretty much be considered just another potentially unhealthy product (like tobacco) and people should be allowed to smoke it or not. Biblically I'd say being "high" is equivalent to being "drunk" and we're expected to be in control of ourselves.

Federal law can and does often trump state law in many situations however I see no need to mix secular and religious belief. Plenty of things can and should be legal regardless of any religious practice. As long as nobody is forced to participate in something it really doesn't matter wha the bible says on the matter when it comes to making somethinga law or not.

 

[cantata]

Are you high?

Edit: you mean hashish, and it is most certainly normally smoked, sometimes eaten. Vaporised? pffft

Vaporisers exist and are generally considered to be a much better way to use pot than smoking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporizer

 

[mpok1519]

Cannabis has also certain health-related benefits not only for the ill, but for healthy people as well, both physical and psychological. Cannabis has been shown to be therapeutic in many cases, with many individuals; the positive outweighs the negative.

Wine is a sacrament in Christianity!

Cannabis is a sacrament in Rastafari!

both are sacraments to Christian Rastas! this is a religion site, yes?

I as a Christian KNOW that the US govt has sponsored propoganda against cannabis always; but the Govt also sponsers synthetic drugs which kill millions and millions of people across the globe.

Legalize it, end the hypocrisy, end the suffering of millions of non-violent drug offendors.

 

[mpok1519]

It's not about time, it might not come up as often as certain other topics here, but it's certainly been debated before.

I don't feel particularly strongly about the subject. I do think that it should pretty much be considered just another potentially unhealthy product (like tobacco) and people should be allowed to smoke it or not. Biblically I'd say being "high" is equivalent to being "drunk" and we're expected to be in control of ourselves.

Federal law can and does often trump state law in many situations however I see no need to mix secular and religious belief. Plenty of things can and should be legal regardless of any religious practice. As long as nobody is forced to participate in something it really doesn't matter wha the bible says on the matter when it comes to making somethinga law or not.

Aha! but you see the difference between alchol and cannabis? ever smoked cannabis? ever been drunk? they are two totally different alternative states of mind; drunk people lose their balance, cannot drive well, cannot focus their eyes. Drunk drivers kill more people than high drivers. When you are high, I do not think you can compare, or equivilate the two states of mind as being 'out of control'. In my observations, the people who're drunk are wobbly, vociferous and outgoing; high on weed people seem to be more quiet, reserved, chilled out, philisophical and thoughtful. I've seen more drunk people start fights; I've seen more high people try to initiate a highly exestential conversation. The two drugs have different effects, but if I had to choose which one makes one lose most control, it'd have to be alcohol. But alcohol is legal, and avaliable to purchase in LARGE quantities.

Yeah, sure, anything in LARGE quanities is bad for you; anything in moderation can't be horrible for you. If the Bible says you cannot ever be drunk or high, then, well, you can't ever drink wine; if you ever drink for the first time, you're going to be wasted. If you smoke for the first time, you're going to be high out of your mind. But, can you not see the hypocrisy here? The Bible says wine is okay, but you cannot get drunk, yet, isnt that the point of wine? Will you not get drunk the first time you drink a glass of wine with your dinner? Its a double standard, when we know people like Jesus, Solomon, David, Peter, Paul, Luke, Matt etc all have most likely had a jovial time getting drunk and telling each other stories, much like we all do today.

"Beer is proof God wants us to be happy." -Ben Franklin

and if I could find a good Bob Marley quote I'd put it here too.

So what if its illegal? in China, you can't have three female children. Does this mean God sponsors this law? Does God ALWAYS sponser Ceasar's law, even when its an unjust and possibly immoral and unethical? no, God knows the people will change unjust and unethical laws, and God know its our obligation and civic duty to civilly disobey unjust and unethical laws in order to get them changed!

viva liberty.

 

[wanderingone]

Aha! but you see the difference between alchol and cannabis? ever smoked cannabis? ever been drunk? they are two totally different alternative states of mind; drunk people lose their balance, cannot drive well, cannot focus their eyes. Drunk drivers kill more people than high drivers. When you are high, I do not think you can compare, or equivilate the two states of mind as being 'out of control'. In my observations, the people who're drunk are wobbly, vociferous and outgoing; high on weed people seem to be more quiet, reserved, chilled out, philisophical and thoughtful. I've seen more drunk people start fights; I've seen more high people try to initiate a highly exestential conversation. The two drugs have different effects, but if I had to choose which one makes one lose most control, it'd have to be alcohol. But alcohol is legal, and avaliable to purchase in LARGE quantities.

Yeah, sure, anything in LARGE quanities is bad for you; anything in moderation can't be horrible for you. If the Bible says you cannot ever be drunk or high, then, well, you can't ever drink wine; if you ever drink for the first time, you're going to be wasted. If you smoke for the first time, you're going to be high out of your mind. But, can you not see the hypocrisy here? The Bible says wine is okay, but you cannot get drunk, yet, isnt that the point of wine? Will you not get drunk the first time you drink a glass of wine with your dinner? Its a double standard, when we know people like Jesus, Solomon, David, Peter, Paul, Luke, Matt etc all have most likely had a jovial time getting drunk and telling each other stories, much like we all do today.

"Beer is proof God wants us to be happy." -Ben Franklin

and if I could find a good Bob Marley quote I'd put it here too.

So what if its illegal? in China, you can't have three female children. Does this mean God sponsors this law? Does God ALWAYS sponser Ceasar's law, even when its an unjust and possibly immoral and unethical? no, God knows the people will change unjust and unethical laws, and God know its our obligation and civic duty to civilly disobey unjust and unethical laws in order to get them changed!

viva liberty.

As I said, there is no reason to mix religious and secular law. I don't know what you drank the first time you had a drink, but a single drink did not ever make me drunk, unfortunately it generally makes me sick, some type of allergic response to alcohol.. about 3/4 of an average serving and my stomach begins to rebel, more than a drink and a half an usually it's coming right back up.

I don't consider there to be a need for marijuana to be illegal so your endless rant was wasted on me. Personally I don't care to deal with potential legal problems so I don't bother with the stuff, but I would gladly go back to making tea with it for the heavy duty discomfort of my periods. When we were teenagers our neighbor started giving my sister and I ganja tea when she found out how miserably sick we 2 were every month. My mother pretended she didn't know what ganja was and indulged it because it helped while presciption medications either did nothing but upset our stomachs or put us to sleep.

As for fighting unjust laws... yes I believe pot being illegal to the point of not even allowing it for medical usage is not just, however it certainly doesn't compare to forced birth control (and the limit on children never was a limit on gender although the result was obvious enough... I guess the result though for china besides facing a bit of a female shortage is that a number of cities got to make quite a business out of foreign adoptions... nice influx of cash from folks who have to go for a week or 2 and spend money while they pick up their kids)

 

[Da Bomb]

It's not about time, it might not come up as often as certain other topics here, but it's certainly been debated before.

I don't feel particularly strongly about the subject. I do think that it should pretty much be considered just another potentially unhealthy product (like tobacco) and people should be allowed to smoke it or not. Biblically I'd say being "high" is equivalent to being "drunk" and we're expected to be in control of ourselves.

Federal law can and does often trump state law in many situations however I see no need to mix secular and religious belief. Plenty of things can and should be legal regardless of any religious practice. As long as nobody is forced to participate in something it really doesn't matter wha the bible says on the matter when it comes to making somethinga law or not.

This is a very wise christian. I do not agree with the comparison of drunk to high, there not really chemically at all the same, but all in all this is a person who studies. I appreciate your input. And I fell it should be debated until it has been resolved.

 

[Da Bomb]

It's not about time, it might not come up as often as certain other topics here, but it's certainly been debated before.

I don't feel particularly strongly about the subject. I do think that it should pretty much be considered just another potentially unhealthy product (like tobacco) and people should be allowed to smoke it or not. Biblically I'd say being "high" is equivalent to being "drunk" and we're expected to be in control of ourselves.

Federal law can and does often trump state law in many situations however I see no need to mix secular and religious belief. Plenty of things can and should be legal regardless of any religious practice. As long as nobody is forced to participate in something it really doesn't matter wha the bible says on the matter when it comes to making somethinga law or not.

out of curiosity will you be voting Mccain or Obama, no ned to answer if not comfortable.

 

[stan1980]

Vaporisers exist and are generally considered to be a much better way to use pot than smoking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporizer

I never said vaporisers didn't exist. My post was in response to the suggestion that cannabis is normally taken by vaporising. I'm sure there are some stone heads out there who are really into it and vaporise their gear, but I'm certain the numbers are miniscule compared to the number of people who smoke cannabis.

 

[Belk]

Aha! but you see the difference between alchol and cannabis? ever smoked cannabis? ever been drunk? they are two totally different alternative states of mind; drunk people lose their balance, cannot drive well, cannot focus their eyes. Drunk drivers kill more people than high drivers. When you are high, I do not think you can compare, or equivilate the two states of mind as being 'out of control'. In my observations, the people who're drunk are wobbly, vociferous and outgoing; high on weed people seem to be more quiet, reserved, chilled out, philisophical and thoughtful. I've seen more drunk people start fights; I've seen more high people try to initiate a highly exestential conversation. The two drugs have different effects, but if I had to choose which one makes one lose most control, it'd have to be alcohol. But alcohol is legal, and avaliable to purchase in LARGE quantities.

Yeah, sure, anything in LARGE quanities is bad for you; anything in moderation can't be horrible for you. If the Bible says you cannot ever be drunk or high, then, well, you can't ever drink wine; if you ever drink for the first time, you're going to be wasted. If you smoke for the first time, you're going to be high out of your mind. But, can you not see the hypocrisy here? The Bible says wine is okay, but you cannot get drunk, yet, isnt that the point of wine? Will you not get drunk the first time you drink a glass of wine with your dinner? Its a double standard, when we know people like Jesus, Solomon, David, Peter, Paul, Luke, Matt etc all have most likely had a jovial time getting drunk and telling each other stories, much like we all do today.

"Beer is proof God wants us to be happy." -Ben Franklin

and if I could find a good Bob Marley quote I'd put it here too.

So what if its illegal? in China, you can't have three female children. Does this mean God sponsors this law? Does God ALWAYS sponser Ceasar's law, even when its an unjust and possibly immoral and unethical? no, God knows the people will change unjust and unethical laws, and God know its our obligation and civic duty to civilly disobey unjust and unethical laws in order to get them changed!

viva liberty.

I forget what comedian it was that said "Have you ever seen anyone get high and kill someone? Maybe got high and forgot to kill someone!"

 

[stan1980]

I forget what comedian it was that said "Have you ever seen anyone get high and kill someone? Maybe got high and forgot to kill someone!"

Another comedian (possibly Bill Hicks) once said who would you rather be confronted by down a dark alley; a group of drunk teenagers looking to beat 10 shades of crap out of you, or a group of stoned students looking for biscuits