Marijuana

[noparty]

Who said anything about being condemned to hell?

If I sin and have no intention of ever repenting, would that not condemn me to hell? I speed and I have no intention of ever obeying the speed limit 100%.

When you scoot about town and drive 30 in a 25 just because you can because you know cops will let you? Rebellion pure and simple.

For the record, I go extremely slow in residential areas. It has nothing to do with obedience to man's law, it has to do with not running over children. Likewise, I choose not to use marijuana. Again, not out of obedience to man's law, but for several other reasons.

When you are doing 80 in a 70 because that is the flow of traffic and doing the speed limit would actually place people in harms way...imo... the saftey issue would trump the speed limit issue. However, doing 80 in a 70 when traffic allows you to do the spped limit (admittedly a rare case in many areas..like maybe 3 AM in LA lol ) then again it is sin.

An exception? Interesting.

As to learning the laws? What do you honestly think? I would say, yes, we need to learn the laws and obey them to the best of our abilities. For the same reason we study the Bible. I want to be the best man God has for me to be....so I must know what is expected of me in all things.

Honestly, nah. I don't think learning man's law is that important to being a Christian. I wouldn't say it's bad to learn the laws, but I don't think it's essential. If given the choice between getting a law degree and volunteering in a soup kitchen, I'd probably say the latter is the more Christ-like thing to do.

 

[Reformationist]

The law is the law. Just because it's not enforced or is outdated doesn't mean it's not a law.

I've not said otherwise. All I've acknowledged is that here, like many other places on this forum, you seek through inanity to make discussions pointless.

I don't think you can say breaking man's law is a sin, but then arbitrarily draw exceptions as you wish. Either breaking the law is a sin or it isn't.

Tell you what, you point out where I drew an exception to man's responsibility to comply with the civil law, regardless of its obscurity, and we'll go from there. As is your MO, you make assumptions as it suits you. In case you missed it, what I actually said was, "if there are laws on the books that are available to the public then the public is responsible for knowing them."

I deliberately used absurd examples of the law to show you how absurd the law is.

Tell me, who should decide the acceptable speed limit? You? What is the point of a speed limit if your position is that exceeding that limit by only a couple of mph is perfectly fine? Should the speed limit signs read "somewhere in the proximity of 65 mph?"

The level of absurdity you see with my examples is the same level of absurdity I see with yours.

Well, if you see holding someone accountable to obeying the speed limit as absurd as holding someone accountable to a maximum number of times one can take a bath per month then it isn't the example that is absurd.

In order to be 100%, you must follow all laws without exception.

No. In order to be 100%, one must submit to all of the laws; unless, of course, they contradict God's laws.

God bless

 

[pgp_protector]

No. In order to be 100%, one must submit to all of the laws; unless, of course, they contradict God's laws.

So do the bathing laws contradict God's laws ?

 

[mont974x4]

So do the bathing laws contradict God's laws ?

oh I am sure of it. Daily bathing is wasting too much water and isn;t being a good steward of natural resources.



lol

 

[Reformationist]

So do the bathing laws contradict God's laws ?

LOL! I would say that not bathing should be considered a violation of God's laws. If it isn't actually a violation, it ought to be.

God bless

 

[pdfiddler]

I'm at a loss for words.

 

[Zecryphon]

Wait one second, think about it, weed is smoked in secret and what did adam and eve do when they sinned, hid just like people do when they smoke it and sell it. Weed is a herbal plant , but has been converted into pleasure versus helping people. Just like Halloween was converted from a holy day to a day for witches and gobblins. So please understand that this plant has been converted into something negative that could have been used for something positive in medicine.

"Just like Halloween was converted from a holy day to a day for witches and gobblins."

When was Halloween considered a holy day? Before the Catholics hijacked it or after?

 

[Zecryphon]

Is it a sin to drive 5 mph over the speed limit?

This question was actually asked just last week on the Way of the Master podcast. In the end it was determined that yes it is a sin to drive even 1 mph over the speed limit. So much for that 5 mph over the speed limit is "common speed" that I was taught in Driver's Ed back in CT. LOL

 

[Starcrystal]

Not speeding on my drive to work will get you killed. The big rigs don't take kindly to people going slower then them.

If you take the New Jersey turnpike you had better go at least 70 at night, even if the "limit" is 55 to 65. If you drive a car you will be almost alone amidst a convoy of truckers going 70 - 80. So would God want us to go 55 and die or get wrecked or keep up with the pack and be safe? Besides, when the trucks slow down then you slow down. That usually means someone's spotted a smokey and reported it to the rest on CB.

Interesting also is that once you get to the midwest the speed limit on highways is 70 or 75 in most states. Montana used to have
"Speed Limit:
Reasonable and prudent.
Trucks: 65"
That meant as long as you didn't go over 90 the cops usually wouldn't bother stopping you.

On another note - how in the world did Washington ever expect people to have babies? Or how did they expect married couples to consumate? I guess they expected the girl to be a loose woman PRIOR to marraige so they wouldn't be a virgin!

 

[mont974x4]

back on topic

YLT
Col 2:16 Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body is of the Christ;
Col 2:18 let no one beguile you of your prize, delighting in humble-mindedness and in worship of the messengers, intruding into the things he hath not seen, being vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh,
Col 2:19 and not holding the head, from which all the body--through the joints and bands gathering supply, and being knit together--may increase with the increase of God.
Col 2:20 If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances?
Col 2:21 --thou mayest not touch, nor taste, nor handle--
Col 2:22 which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men,
Col 2:23 which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body--not in any honour, unto a satisfying of the flesh.

 

[Harlan Norris]

Has it occoured to any that this discussion would not be happening if for instance,pot did not get you high. What if brussels sprouts were outlawed,do you think there would be a 5 pages long debate over that? I seriously doubt it. Pot is an intoxicant,that is also addictive. The fact is,there is a law against it's use and possession of it. People want pot legalised because they smoke pot. I used to smoke it,and I know exactly what it's relative value is.

 

[mont974x4]

Harlan....then soap operas, chocolate, coffee and shopping should be approached the same way.

NONE of these things are wrong in and of themselves..how we use them is the issue.

 

[Reformationist]

Harlan....then soap operas, chocolate, coffee and shopping should be approached the same way.

NONE of these things are wrong in and of themselves..how we use them is the issue.

I don't think your analogy is going to hold water being that none of those things impair your ability to function, at least not to the extent that pot does.

With that said, I do not personally think the possession and personal use of that drug by adults should be a jailable offense. I think that is more of an education issue, similar to the use of tobacco. There are enough crimes of a more serious nature that our law enforcement would be better utilized in regulating than the personal use of pot by an adult.

God bless

 

[mont974x4]

I don't think your analogy is going to hold water being that none of those things impair your ability to function, at least not to the extent that pot does.

With that said, I do not personally think the possession and personal use of that drug by adults should be a jailable offense. I think that is more of an education issue, similar to the use of tobacco. There are enough crimes of a more serious nature that our law enforcement would be better utilized in regulating than the personal use of pot by an adult.

God bless

Actually, I was just trying to bring attention to the fact that we all have some issue along these lines. Like it or not, sugar and caffiene do alter our mind/mood. True, not to the extent as pot initially, but have you watched someone try to get off coffee or diet pop?

These are all personal issues and should be choices made by the individual.

Of course, being a libertarian, I view most of our laws as beyond the Consitutional bounds of our government.

 

[Harlan Norris]

Harlan....then soap operas, chocolate, coffee and shopping should be approached the same way.

NONE of these things are wrong in and of themselves..how we use them is the issue.

How does one use pot well,or for that matter soap opera. Pot does no earthly good to any that partake of it. The initial high is euphoric,however that is just the beginning of it,shortly after,one becomes tired hungry,and often more than a little paranoid. At the end is fatigue and depression. It's pain killing properties are minimal at best. What I'm saying is it's pointless,costly and in view of it's criminal nature and associations,dangerous. It's use can and does separate people from good paying jobs. Frankly, the only reason anyone would defend it is because it is addictive. Denial is the hallmark of addiction. So, every now and then comes a thread where those who smoke or used to smoke,say "it's good stuff,and harmless". What I'm saying is it's neither good nor harmless...Been there, done that.

 

[mont974x4]

How does one use pot well,or for that matter soap opera. Pot does no earthly good to any that partake of it. The initial high is euphoric,however that is just the beginning of it,shortly after,one becomes tired hungry,and often more than a little paranoid. At the end is fatigue and depression. It's pain killing properties are minimal at best. What I'm saying is it's pointless,costly and in view of it's criminal nature and associations,dangerous. It's use can and does separate people from good paying jobs. Frankly, the only reason anyone would defend it is because it is addictive. Denial is the hallmark of addiction. So, every now and then comes a thread where those who smoke or used to smoke,say "it's good stuff,and harmless". What I'm saying is it's neither good nor harmless...Been there, done that.

We will have to agree to disagree. I bid you good day and God bless.

 

[Reformationist]

True, not to the extent as pot initially, but have you watched someone try to get off coffee or diet pop?

LOL! Initially? Come on mont. We're not talking about caffine withdrawl here. We're talking about significant physiological influence. A person's reflexes, thought capacity, decision making abilities, etc. (the list goes on) are directly and negatively affected by THC. That is entirely different than the effects of caffine withdrawl.

I agree that the use of marijuana should be, in a limited capacity, a personal choice, just as is smoking tobacco. That said, it is intellectually dishonest to justify the use of marijuana by claiming/implying that it is no more destructive than coffee and soda.

 

[mont974x4]

LOL! Initially? Come on mont. We're not talking about caffine withdrawl here. We're talking about significant physiological influence. A person's reflexes, thought capacity, decision making abilities, etc. (the list goes on) are directly and negatively affected by THC. That is entirely different than the effects of caffine withdrawl.

I agree that the use of marijuana should be, in a limited capacity, a personal choice, just as is smoking tobacco. That said, it is intellectually dishonest to justify the use of marijuana by claiming/implying that it is no more destructive than coffee and soda.

OK, for the sake of intellectual honesty.

(BTW, there is a serious physiological issue when people try to get off diet pop and these other items...I've seen it myself. lol )

How many people have been killed due directly to pot? none How about alcohol? water? sugar? legal medication? countless...and yes people have died just from drinking too much water.



My point is this...
Can pot be used wrongly? yes. Can it be used properly? Yes. Can it own us? Yes. Can we own it? yes. Should we be free to choose for ourselves? yes. Should we be honest enough with ourselves as to why and how we want to use it? Yes.

On this basis, it is no diferent than any other thing.



Keep in mind, that people like Montel Williams are highly successful professional individuals who just happen to use medical marijuana to treat MS and a variety of serious diseases.


We need to set aside the steroetypes and propoganda and look at the entire issue fairly and honestly.


I refer you back to post #20 of this thread.

 

[Reformationist]

How many people have been killed due directly to pot? none How about alcohol? water? sugar? legal medication? countless...and yes people have died just from drinking too much water.

My point is this...
Can pot be used wrongly? yes. Can it be used properly? Yes. Can it own us? Yes. Can we own it? yes. Should we be free to choose for ourselves? yes. Should we be honest enough with ourselves as to why and how we want to use it? Yes.

Two things. First, I would love to see the source for your statistic regarding the number of deaths directly attributable to marijuana, in the interest of intellectual honest of course. I'll look forward to you providing that. Secondly, unless your intention is to imply that the proper use of alcohol, water, sugar, and legal medication is more destructive than the "proper" use of a narcotic like marijuana, it is intellectually dishonest to claim that any of those things are more likely to harm someone than marijuana. It seems as if you're attempting to prove that the improper use of alcohol, water, sugar, and legal medication is more destructive than the proper use of a narcotic like marijuana, which isn't exactly a worthwhile comparison.

On this basis, it is no diferent than any other thing.

And this conclusion mont, is simply silly. That's like saying that, in comparison to overindulging in alcohol, jumping out of an airplane without a parachute has resulted in less deaths so, on that basis, overindulging in alcohol is more dangerous than jumping out of an airplane without a parachute. Not exactly an accurate conclusion.

We need to set aside the steroetypes and propoganda and look at the entire issue fairly and honestly.

If you'll look at my previous posts on the issue you'll see that I take no issue with people of legal age using the drug, even for recreational use so I'm certainly not going to argue against the relief it gives those who are helped medically from its use. That said, if you want people to look at it fairly and honestly, you, as an advocate, have an obligation to address the issue fairly and honestly. Trying to draw parallels between the use of marijuana and water doesn't fit into that catagory.

God bless

 

[IronCross7]

yea cause thats kinda the same thing as saying lets eat some poison ivy cause its a plant.. it will hurt you and change you and its just not worth it.. it can get you addicted and make you tempted to smoke it so why even risk it