Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
That is precisely what the new birth is all about and, with it, the imputed righteousness of Christ. You cannot separate the two.
If you agree that justification is an ongoing process and not a one time event....we can agree.
Justification is a one-time event even as the new birth is a one-time event. Likewise, baptism is a one-time event in a person's life. Sanctification, however, continues throughout life. I think that the Catholic church has conflated sanctification with justification.
The "yes" in your reply implies that one ought to fully expect to remain a sinner in heaven and that cannot be true so I ask again if you truly believe that souls still inclined to sin and still sinning will stand before God and be declared righteous on the day of judgement and in that state of sin with the intention to continue therein be admitted to heaven as saints?Yes to all of your questions.Actually, truth be told, I have the imputed righteousness of God in me through His grace. I am, therefore, just as righteous as Jesus Christ, as is every other believer in Jesus Christ, Mary included.
Do you think that come the last judgement you will stand before God just as you are right now (or as you will be at the moment of your death, the two are essentially the same, right?) and God will declare you perfect and righteous and you will remain exactly as you are at that time? No change, no actual perfection, only the imputed righteousness of Christ? Is that how it worked for all the saints all through history, they stand before God unchanged internally, having been clothed with a garment of righteousness but not having been changed inside to actually be righteous?
I'm not the topic. Nor are you. The content of the post, not you, was what I disagree with, so is it possible to differentiate between persons and posts?
When individuals begin to address persons, it means their arguments are poor or they need to stop posting.
And speaking of "reading minds", pot kettle black.
So sure? I'd argue false premise.
Pot kettle black.
It isn't mine that is the subject but the poster's-in-question.
Jesus is forever a child under a different use of the term, which is the same no matter how He may or may not choose to manifest.
Furthermore, suggesting as if the vision saw signifies that He is everyone's son and not a savior is, honestly, irrelevant.
Other way around.
Proof of having a position so weak and pathetic it must require addressing the opponent to look valid. Disgraceful.
PaladinValer said:Don't claim logic when logic isn't used in your own posts.
chapter 12 also talks about the Child
what does the Child represent?
My interpretation comes from using logic, reasoning, prayer to God to give me wisdom through the holy spirit to reveal the truth of the scriptures and not trying to read my own ideas into the scriptures.
MrMoe said:When I showed you that the woman in Revelation 12 was Israel using scripture, I also showed you your belief that it was Mary and the church was logically flawed, all you could say was that you interpreted it differently. You never gave a reason.
MrMoe said:Is it a mortal sin to believe what he believed?
MrMoe said:You're putting words in my mouth. I never said this person believed what the entire church believes. I said I found someone who believed Mary was necessary for salvation to disprove your claim no one has said that.
MrMoe said:You asked for links for context and I gave them to you. As a Catholic I would have assumed you would know and have read of the events and messages of Fatima so your constant requests for context are starting to seem insincere.
I have read what this apparition has said and what occurred and the quote isn't any less blasphemous in context.
MrMoe said:We need the heart of Christ not of Mary. Did you realize this Fatima apparition called Jesus "the child Jesus"? Only one problem.. Jesus isn't a child anymore!
MrMoe said:You asked for context and I gave it to you, now your asking for the entire passage/chapter/book in light of history, context and people. Are you going to ask me for it in the context of the history of the universe next?
I agree that context is very important but 1 Corinthians 11:14-15 is simply stating an ability and tactic of Satan.
I hope you're not seriously suggesting we need to put that verse in the context of history and culture to figure out if the devil is still the devil.
If you know the context of the verse in history and culture then please tell us so we can move the discussion forward instead of using it a diverging tactic.
MrMoe said:The fact that you did not answer my question about the words spoken by the divination spirit in Acts 16:17 says a lot.
MrMoe said:Okay, show me where and when she said it. Give me documentation.
I will. I will also ask her if she heard the millions of prayers directed to her.
Yes we are, but that doesn't prove your claim.
True, but again that still doesn't prove your claim.
MrMoe said:The problem is I'll get two or more different answers. I've seen this several times here and other places online. I asked Rhamiel the same question and he said he doesn't pray to no canonized saints because they haven't been officially recognized by the church therefore it is not certain that if they are in heaven. I pointed out the obvious problem with this but he never replied.
So if Catholics can't agree on what they believe how do they expect non Catholics to be sure what they believe.
MrMoe said:The immaculate heart is not Jesus. Jesus is our salvation.
The "yes" in your reply implies that one ought to fully expect to remain a sinner in heaven and that cannot be true so I ask again if you truly believe that souls still inclined to sin and still sinning will stand before God and be declared righteous on the day of judgement and in that state of sin with the intention to continue therein be admitted to heaven as saints?
The fact is that there are only two types of people in this world - lost sinners and saved sinners. Which are you?
Yes to all of your questions.
It was satan who first planted the seed of doubt in Eve's thoughts. God's words were and are always true, so any time a doubt about them comes into your mind, you'll know that you're listening to the wrong counsel. God's prophets carry and proclaim His words. They cannot speak against God. Satan's messengers on the other hand will always cast doubt and speak against God.
It was satan who first planted the seed of doubt in Eve's thoughts. God's words were and are always true, so any time a doubt about them comes into your mind, you'll know that you're listening to the wrong counsel. God's prophets carry and proclaim His words. They cannot speak against God. Satan's messengers on the other hand will always cast doubt and speak against God.
IMO there are really three likely possibilities for any person with the mind of Christ to consider.This thought came to my mind....I know about certain Marian apparitions that a lot of Catholics deem to be true but satan himself disguises himself as a angel of light according to the the word of God. Satan and his demons can masquerade as departed loved ones to trick us and wouldn't it be possible Satan and his minions can do the same with these "Marian apparitions"?
Looking at the fruit of those encounters with an angelic personage, whatever their source, makes it impossible to believe that they were produced directly of God.
Yeh, that's the only reason anyone could possibly disagree with another church's theological positions.the only reason you do not accept these things is that you do not like Catholicism
Any system can point to some kind of so called fruit I suppose.conversions away from paganism to Christianity
"conversions of the heart" people going from lukewarm Christians to devoted Christians
healings
the only reason you do not accept these things is that you do not like Catholicism
IMO there are really three likely possibilities for any person with the mind of Christ to consider.
1. The accounts of appearances are out and out lies to further a religious agenda.
2. They are perhaps well meaning but mistaken human based dreams or projections of belief.
3. They are demonic in nature
The idea that God would sanction anything that would add in any way to the effectiveness of a system that has kept millions in bondage and masked and clouded the simple gospel so thoroughly for so long is almost too much for a born again believer to consider IMO.
I said that the 3 possibilities that I named were the only "LIKELY" ones in light of the distorted gospel preached by the people associated with the visions of Mary - namely the Roman Catholic Church.
Originally Posted by Marvin Knox
1. The accounts of appearances are out and out lies to further a religious agenda.
2. They are perhaps well meaning but mistaken human based dreams or projections of belief.
3. They are demonic in nature
Whether you like it or not, there is a 4th possibility, unless you yourself have received a private revelation from God that makes it absolutely - not simply morally - certain there isn't one.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?