Marian apparitions...are they for real or a hoax?

[MKJ]

Private revelations need to be consistent with the Sacred Scriptures, Sacred Tradition and the 2000 year teaching magisterium of the Church in order to be consider valid no matter the source. This why pretty much every private revelation presented by non-Catholics can readily be dismissed.

Oh, I think you might be saying too much there in the bit I highlighted. I think you might find a goodly number that are well within all off those things from non-catholic sources.

That said, I'm still making my pilgrimage to Lourdes next month. Nothing that has been presented thus far has convinced me the appearance of the Blessed Virgin Mary has been anything else than what the Church says it was.

St. Bernadette, ora pro nobis! [/quote]

Well, I would not argue with your personal conviction on their source. But what you are illustrating here is something that I find quite dangerous among many Catholic laity - the Church does NOT say that the appearance is in fact "real" in the way you are saying. It says it doesn't teach anything against the faith.

Those are actually quite different things, and while plenty of Catholics understand that I see quite a lot, including several posting in this discussion, who don't.

The judgement that the appearances are really of Mary, is a private one - the Church says neither yes nor no in any official capacity. It is, in effect, saying that they may be real, and so you may come to your own conclusions.

Someone who does not think it is real may not, as is sometimes implied, be less Catholic, pious, or faithful. It could quite easily be the case in a given circumstance that they are simply more discerning or even less gullible.

I personally have serious problems with some of the officially approved apparitions, and I have no particular argument with the idea that such a thing is possible and there are some I think are likely what they say. Others, like Mary Margaret Alacoque, I have serious doubts about an am inclined to think may actually have been of ungodly origin.

 

[tadoflamb]

Oh, I think you might be saying too much there in the bit I highlighted. I think you might find a goodly number that are well within all off those things from non-catholic sources.

I'm not so sure about that. I cant think of any private revelation outside and unique from the Catholic Church that I'm compelled to believe. Even here in GT when I hear 'Jesus told me this' or the 'Holy Spirit showed me that', if it contradicts the teachings of the Church then it can be readily dismissed. In this way the Church protects us from the tyranny of the individual.

Well, I would not argue with your personal conviction on their source. But what you are illustrating here is something that I find quite dangerous among many Catholic laity - the Church does NOT say that the appearance is in fact "real" in the way you are saying. It says it doesn't teach anything against the faith.

Those are actually quite different things, and while plenty of Catholics understand that I see quite a lot, including several posting in this discussion, who don't.

It is, in effect, saying that they may be real, and so you may come to your own conclusions.

Someone who does not think it is real may not, as is sometimes implied, be less Catholic, pious, or faithful. It could quite easily be the case in a given circumstance that they are simply more discerning or even less gullible.

and I have no particular argument with the idea that such a thing is possible and there are some I think are likely what they say. Others, like Mary Margaret Alacoque, I have serious doubts about an am inclined to think may actually have been of ungodly origin.

Naturally, since it's the only foundation of the argument of those who don't believe in the appearance of the Blessed Virgin Mary, my personal convictions should be held paramount. If I want to have a devotion to our Lady of Lourdes, who is anyone outside the Catholic Church to tell me not to? Really, I'm just exercising the religious liberties allegedly afforded to me by protestantism.

I've also noticed you've taken up two contradictory positions in your post. On one hand you write:

The judgement that the appearances are really of Mary, is a private one - the Church says neither yes nor no in any official capacity.

and with the other:

I personally have serious problems with some of the officially approved apparitions,...

If the Church hasn't approved or can't approve the appearance of Our Lady at Lourdes, why have they attributed a feast day to her?

Even recent popes have made a pilgrimage there. To me, that's the Church saying Our Lady of Lourdes is believable. My personal revelations (with which you can't argue) verify the same. That's why I'm making my own pilgrimage.

So, I can only conclude that for those of you who don't hold to the entirety of the Catholic faith the only real honest answer you can give as to the validity of the appearances of the Blessed Virgin Mary is simply that you just don't know and you should probably leave it at that.

 

[MKJ]

I'm not so sure about that. I cant think of any private revelation outside and unique from the Catholic Church that I'm compelled to believe. Even here in GT when I hear 'Jesus told me this' or the 'Holy Spirit showed me that', if it contradicts the teachings of the Church then it can be readily dismissed. In this way the Church protects us from the tyranny of the individual.

Well, you aren't compelled to believe any, are you? But what you said was that none met the criteria of being in line with orthodox catholic teaching, which is quite a different story.

Naturally, since it's the only foundation of the argument of those who don't believe in the appearance of the Blessed Virgin Mary, my personal convictions should be held paramount. If I want to have a devotion to our Lady of Lourdes, who is anyone outside the Catholic Church to tell me not to? Really, I'm just exercising the religious liberties allegedly afforded to me by protestantism.

This totally misses the point of what I am saying, as far as I can see because you are so focused on "disproving" any thing said by a non-catholic you haven't really listened.

I've also noticed you've taken up two contradictory positions in your post. On one hand you write:


and with the other:

If the Church hasn't approved or can't approve the appearance of Our Lady at Lourdes, why have they attributed a feast day to her?

Even recent popes have made a pilgrimage there. To me, that's the Church saying Our Lady of Lourdes is believable. My personal revelations (with which you can't argue) verify the same. That's why I'm making my own pilgrimage.

So, I can only conclude that for those of you who don't hold to the entirety of the Catholic faith the only real honest answer you can give as to the validity of the appearances of the Blessed Virgin Mary is simply that you just don't know and you should probably leave it at that.

[/quote]

No, they aren't, because they are about different things.

The first is about what the Catholic Church says, which is that no one is required to believe in any privately received revelations. Even if the Pope visits, even if they give a feast day to it. There is a good reason for that - if you think carefully what it would mean with regard to the closing of the canon, for example, you can begin to see why. THe CC is bound to say, because of decisions made very early in the history of the Church, that or we will have no more of that kind of public revelation of God's message - it has been completed. They need to walk a careful line not to oblige belief in new special messages.

Saying it is believable is NOT saying it is true - I am not sure how that isn't plain. And you seem to have confused personal conviction, or judgement, with revelation. Unless you have had a vision of some sort, you have had no revelation about Lourdes - you think it is true and maybe feel it, which is rather different.

The fact that people, like yourself, miss this is part of the reason some Protestants, and even members of the OCC, become suspicious of the whole idea of people having visions of this kind. You aren't doing your position any favours.

Now - as far as my second comment -I would argue that in devoting feats and such to things that come from personal revelations they have crossed that line. They have in effect made them more than they ought to be. That, however, is a contradiction in their position, not mine.

As for me not thinking some are accurate - yes, there I am not making a comment on the internal logic of the CC, as I was in the main part of my comment. I am giving my opinion. I am saying that I think they misjudged in some cases - in that particular one, that they have said that what is essentially a form of Nestorianism is orthodox, when clearly it couldn't be. And interestingly enough it was largely through political maneuvering, and against the judgement of earlier popes, that the vision was declared acceptable.

 

[xTx]

What I "am talking about" is just this--

It's no argument at all to say that an idea is true simply because some organization that stands to benefit from having people think it is true says it is.

And that's what you did. See here:

Hi Albion -

How did to you come to know Jesus is THE Lord and Saviour of mankind?

Well - I grew up an atheist. Did not believe in God. Period.

Than - one day I decided that ok - I think I need God - where to start???

Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc etc etc.

Than I remembered a little pray my Mom thought me before she went to the other side - the Hail Mary.

So, I thought to myself - my Mom will not teach me something bad.

Without believing in anything - I started to say the Hail Mary.

Over and over again.

One day - I just know that Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead.

TODAY - JESUS and NOT Mary is the center of my worship. PERIOD.

So, please explain to me if Mary is soooo bad as you claim her to be -

why is it that my devotion is to Jesus and not to Mary?

By the way, I do not attend the Roman Catholic Church.

If Mary is soooo bad, I would be attending the Roman Catholic Church like a drone right?

Well, I am free and Mary - has only brought me to the ONE TRUE GOD.

John 14: 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Do I have any statues of Mary in my home? Nope.

Do I feel drawn to the Roman Catholic Church? Nope.

Do I feel I have to recite the Rosary? Nope.

Mother Mary though she brought me to Jesus has left me free. PERIOD.

Albion - GOD exists. PERIOD.

If God wants to use His earthly mother to bring people to Him, it is HIS choice.

Are Marian apparitions...are they for real or a hoax?

Well - some probably are. Some probably aren't. And, God only knows what is really out there.

 

[Albion]

Hi Albion -

How did to you come to know Jesus is THE Lord and Saviour of mankind?

Well - I grew up an atheist. Did not believe in God. Period.

Than - one day I decided that ok - I think I need God - where to start???

Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc etc etc.

Than I remembered a little pray my Mom thought me before she went to the other side - the Hail Mary.

So, I thought to myself - my Mom will not teach me something bad.

Without believing in anything - I started to say the Hail Mary.

Over and over again.

One day - I just know that Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead.

which would have nothing to do with the Hail Mary prayer except that you were praying.

TODAY - JESUS and NOT Mary is the center of my worship. PERIOD.

So, please explain to me if Mary is soooo bad as you claim her to be -

I don't know what you're thinking of there. I've never said that Mary is bad (or soooo bad). And praying to her or saying the Hail Mary in particular doesn't even have anything to do with our topic here (which is whether alleged visions of Mary are real or bogus).

Well, I am free and Mary - has only brought me to the ONE TRUE GOD.

that's what you imagine, I suppose, but of course there are many other explanations. And do you think that if you'd said the "Our Father" instead, that you'd still be a non-believer?

Well, thanks for sharing.

 

[Albion]

dup

 

[xTx]

which would have nothing to do with the Hail Mary prayer except that you were praying.

Why do you think it had nothing to do with the Hail Mary?

I don't know what you're thinking of there. I've never said that Mary is bad (or soooo bad). And praying to her or saying the Hail Mary in particular doesn't even have anything to do with our topic here (which is whether alleged visions of Mary are real or bogus).

Apologies - I thought I was within topic - must have strayed without realizing it - if you concentrate too much at work for 8 to 9 hours a day - that is what it does to the human brains - they should cut work down to 4 hours a day and pay us an 8 hours a day wages - ok way off topic.

that's what you imagine, I suppose, but of course there are many other explanations. And do you think that if you'd said the "Our Father" instead, that you'd still be a non-believer?

Well, thanks for sharing.

Don't know - unable to experiment with the Our Father as already a firm believer via the Hail Mary.

You are welcome

 

[Albion]

Why do you think it had nothing to do with the Hail Mary?

Well, there's a possibility, of course, but the prayer is a hymn to Mary and does not ask for faith, etc. As I said, any prayer or request might bring a response from God, but to act as though this particular prayer is the special key to it doesn't seem correct.

 

[tadoflamb]

Hi Albion -

How did to you come to know Jesus is THE Lord and Saviour of mankind?

Well - I grew up an atheist. Did not believe in God. Period.

Than - one day I decided that ok - I think I need God - where to start???

Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc etc etc.

Than I remembered a little pray my Mom thought me before she went to the other side - the Hail Mary.

So, I thought to myself - my Mom will not teach me something bad.

Without believing in anything - I started to say the Hail Mary.

Over and over again.

One day - I just know that Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead.

TODAY - JESUS and NOT Mary is the center of my worship. PERIOD.

So, please explain to me if Mary is soooo bad as you claim her to be -

why is it that my devotion is to Jesus and not to Mary?

By the way, I do not attend the Roman Catholic Church.

If Mary is soooo bad, I would be attending the Roman Catholic Church like a drone right?

Well, I am free and Mary - has only brought me to the ONE TRUE GOD.

John 14: 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Do I have any statues of Mary in my home? Nope.

Do I feel drawn to the Roman Catholic Church? Nope.

Do I feel I have to recite the Rosary? Nope.

Mother Mary though she brought me to Jesus has left me free. PERIOD.

Albion - GOD exists. PERIOD.

If God wants to use His earthly mother to bring people to Him, it is HIS choice.

Are Marian apparitions...are they for real or a hoax?

Well - some probably are. Some probably aren't. And, God only knows what is really out there.

That's interesting. I too was a borderline atheist and it was a few Hail Mary's that brought me to Christ and His Church. It's telling that those who don't have a response to the appearances of Our Lady also struggle to respond to the power of one devoutly recited 'Hail Mary'.

 

[xTx]

That's interesting. I too was a borderline atheist and it was a few Hail Mary's that brought me to Christ and His Church. It's telling that those who don't have a response to the appearances of Our Lady also struggle to respond to the power of one devoutly recited 'Hail Mary'.

Thanks for sharing Tado. The Hail Mary is powerful bringer of people to God.

 

[xTx]

Well, there's a possibility, of course, but the prayer is a hymn to Mary and does not ask for faith, etc. As I said, any prayer or request might bring a response from God, but to act as though this particular prayer is the special key to it doesn't seem correct.

A prayer is a prayer is a prayer when said all with your heart. Period.

I think, Albion, I need to go and speak in tongues for a while.

 

[Albion]

A prayer is a prayer is a prayer when said all with your heart. Period.
I think, Albion, I need to go and speak in tongues for a while.

I think you've put your finger on the point and confirmed what I was trying to explain to you. If you want to draw closer to God and entreat him earnestly, you are already trusting and thinking of him. You are not simply neutral at that moment when it comes to the idea of God, yourself, a relationship with him, etc.

In other words, you could have said almost ANYTHING while in a prayerful mindset and had the same result. There's nothing special in the fact that you used the 'Hail Mary' prayer, although that is what you were telling us (and probably want to believe).

 

[xTx]

I think you've put your finger on the point and confirmed what I was trying to explain to you. If you want to draw closer to God and entreat him earnestly, you are already trusting and thinking of him. You are not simply neutral at that moment when it comes to the idea of God, yourself, a relationship with him, etc.

In other words, you could have said almost ANYTHING while in a prayerful mindset and had the same result. There's nothing special in the fact that you used the 'Hail Mary' prayer, although that is what you were telling us (and probably want to believe).

xTx response -

Nope, at that time, I was an atheist. I did not pray to God, (atheists do not believe in God you know). I just recited (like a parrot) the Hail Mary.

Hoping that if there is a God, He will reveal Himself.

And, God revealed Himself as Jesus.


To point out the facts to you Albion -

Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

- since I was reciting the Hail Mary like a parrot but a parrot with all my heart - who prayed or interceded for me ??? - the answer - nobody but Mother Mary.

Mother Mary was interceding for me whilst I was an atheist reciting the Hail Mary. She brought me to Jesus.

 

[Albion]

Nope, at that time, I was an atheist. I did not pray to God, (atheists do not believe in God you know). I just recited (like a parrot) the Hail Mary.

Why would a confirmed atheist 1) pray to a non-existent being? and 2) what did you think you were doing when saying those words of praise and petition that include affirmations of faith...recounting the baseball scores for the day? Of course not. That's a ridiculous notion.

Now that you've changed your convictions about God (and you certainly were in the process before) you are reconfiguring in your mind what actually happened.

 

[xTx]

Why would a confirmed atheist 1) pray to a non-existent being? and 2) what did you think you were doing when saying those words of praise and petition that include affirmations of faith...recounting the baseball scores for the day? Of course not. That's a ridiculous notion.

Now that you've changed your convictions about God (and you certainly were in the process before) you are reconfiguring in your mind what actually happened.

Why not?

 

[Galilee63]

Jesus and our Blessed Virgin Mary have appeared to countless Saints whom were priests, nuns, lay people (ie martyrs, people serving Jesus/God and the poor, the sick and dying, Children of whom were orphans during the most difficult and toughest periods in history) that "both" Jesus Christ our Saviour and The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God have appeared.

Jesus appeared to Saint Dominic during 1214 with and without The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God delivering "The Holy Ros-ary" and then later appeared to another priest Blessed Alan de La Roche to 'restore' The Holy Rosary being spread to His priests during 1260 for it to be prayed by mankind.

catholictradition.org/Classics/secret-rosary34.htm

Jesus appeared to Saint Bernard of Clairvaux during 1090 with a prayer for mankind to pray in order to be given another opportunity in Jesus/God's Holy Will to be forgiven sins at the hour of death ie given Jesus' Mercy. Here is one of the many links.

motheofgod.com › Heaven › The Saints

Jesus Christ our Saviour has appeared on many many occasions to Saint Sister Faustina with and without The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God, during the 1930's delivering His Chaplet to mankind.

Here is one of the many links which contain 'more' of Jesus' Divine Mercy holy Messages (and the reason I choose to post this one often) though priority is Jesus' Divine Mercy Chaplet to be prayed:

Divine Mercy - Jesus, I trust in You

Why do Christians and Catholics included "doubt" that Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit and our Blessed Virgin Mary are 'able' to appear to mankind since Jesus ascended into Heaven when indeed God The Most High appeared and spoke to many of His Apostles BC and Jesus Christ our Saviour received God The Most High and The Holy Spirit speaking to His Heart during His life here on Earth including Archangel Gabriel and Archangels speaking and appearing to The Blessed Virgin Mary.

We as Christians either believe Jesus/God's Holy Word - God's Old Testament and Jesus' New Testament with every Holy Testimony...or we cannot call ourselves true followers of Jesus Christ our Saviour/God/The Holy Spirit.

I feel the problem arises from hearts not actually 'receiving' Jesus Christ our Saviour in the ways we have been taught by Jesus and through The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God Gifted and Blessed by God The Most High, as opposed to minds 'receiving' Jesus Christ our Saviour/God/The Holy Spirit, as a result of the lack of focus, meditation and prayer, the lack of daily time spent kneeling, praying in Church or a quiet place in the home or wherever with Jesus' Holy Cross and Holy Images 'pre-Blessed' that are present (I am always guilty of this) focussing upon Jesus Himself and His bitter Passion and Sorrowful Stations of His Cross in order for Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit to completely open one's heart to Jesus, for Him to flow His Loving Holy Wisdom, Guidance and Enlightenment more powerfully through about millions of facts in relation to Jesus, The Blessed Virgin Mary, God and The Holy Spirit.

"Ask Jesus in complete Trust and ye shall receive in Jesus/God's Holy Will'.

Trust in Jesus,

...that Jesus Christ our Saviour/God/The Holy Spirit will answer all of these questions in your hearts of Him, however, one needs to focus on Jesus, His Life, His bitter Passion, His Sorrows, Agonies and Torments daily first during prayer from the heart "feeling" for Jesus - Jesus requests these things while praying His Divine Mercy Chaplet and The Holy Rosary with or without Fasting if healthy. I choose to fast, because Jesus is able to open up my heart more greatly to Him during fasting and staying off all junk foods, while not being distracted by earthly stuff for a few hours daily, attending Holy Mass/Church a few times weekly, receiving Jesus' Blessed Sacraments Holy Communion and priority 'repenting sins daily from my heart' to Jesus (however Catholic teachings state once a month is fine).

Then, as others around the world have reported, incredible 'Holy' things occur with Jesus being received into our Hearts constantly and for many, 'speaking to our hearts directly'.

I received firstly The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God speaking to my heart. Then a year later after repenting sins daily from my heart to Jesus and including The Blessed Virgin Mary always in every prayer, while doing those things listed above, I received Jesus speaking to my heart x 2 years to date.

It is extremely sad to witness people of whom doubt Jesus and The Blessed Virgin Mary appearing and speaking to hearts of Saints/people/Children right through until date, that Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit and our Blessed Virgin Mary have been doing this for centuries right back to when God The Most High appeared to His Apostles/Moses, speaking to the heart of Esdra/Ezra greatly, answering all of Esdra/Ezra's questions of God The Most High.

Yet many people of whom are Catholic continually doubt and doubt the greatest to be honest - I have Christian friends (non-Catholics) of whom believe in Jesus and our Blessed Virgin Mary having appeared to Saints priests, Nuns/Sisters, Children, Adults, laeity.

How profoundly sad this makes my heart feel for Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit and our Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God after all of the Love, Loving Holy Patience, Loving Holy Kindness, Loving Holy Giving, Compassion and Mercy Jesus/God has given people each Century, appearing to priests, nuns/sisters, children, lay people, speaking to peoples hearts of whom have trusted completely in Jesus and set a great deal of daily time aside out of a good part of their lives (the Children/Adults of Medjugorje and Saints as an example given someone mentioned in a post on here), over the years making incredibly huge sacrifices in prayer to Jesus/God for the soul good of others around the world, the sick and dying, those in Holy Purgatory, for other world causes, which includes daily and/or thrice weekly at least fasting that is strict, giving up junk/rubbishy things in their lives such as newspapers, television, watching movies, reading books, many personal treats, offering these up year after year, for not only world causes 'the conversion of sinners', Jesus/God's Love and Peace throughout His World, for all of the sick and dying crossing over to Jesus and for the Holy Souls in Purgatory.

It may appear 'as easy' and/or a money making scheme way back to when they were young Children living in Medjugorje during war times, however, bear in mind, that Jesus Christ our Saviour and The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God were appearing to Children - the Fatima Children - well before this had occurred - Saints/priests/nuns and others well before 1917.


Jesus appears to Mary
(under Saints within this link/website).

Therefore my question to skeptic Catholics and Christians is this:

'How do you justify in your hearts (as opposed to minds) that all of these Saints/priests/nuns/Children/Adults - hundreds of them - to date - most with similar descriptions of Jesus and The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God and Jesus' Loving Holy Voice and The Blessed Virgin Mary's Loving Holy voice and appearances and the Holy Prayers and Holy Message 'content' themselves, are all wrong?'

These are most definitely not 'anti-Christ' material/content.

Another fact (to myself) is that many of the Prayers that Jesus/God indeed provided to mankind through Jesus' Holy appearances to His Chosen Religious and by The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God in Holy unison and Holy solo contain Holy words, terms, connotations and Holy messages that directly reflect God and His Old Testament and Teachings, including Jesus' New Testament Teachings to mankind that are all based upon several things:

+ Repentance of sins from the heart to Jesus Christ our Saviour

+ Praying to Jesus/God the prayers "The Our Father", "The Hail Mary", Jesus' Divine Mercy Chaplet, The Lord is my Shepherd, The Angelic Salutation, The Holy Rosary, The Angelus, The Magnificat, the Prayers that Jesus gave mankind through Saint Faustina that include The Our Father, The Hail Mary and The Glory be to The Father and to The Son and to The Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be world without end Amen, among other prayers that Jesus/God has given to us through His Holy Word - His Bible.

+ Receiving Jesus Christ our Saviour/God/The Holy Spirit's Blessed Holy Sacraments - Baptism of The Holy Spirit, Reconciliation and Holy Communion to "receive" Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit more powerfully into our hearts daily.

+ Abiding in all of God's Commandments and walking in His Righteousness

+ Giving greatly to the poor with deeds of mercy and prayers of mercy.

+ in summary, all of Jesus/God's Teachings through His Holy Word.

....therefore what is the problem Catholics and Christians encounter, think or feel praying to Jesus and including The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God of Whom all things are visible and invisible? Of Whom have been in fact working in His and Her Holiness as King and Queen of Heaven, the Universe and the Earth converting 'sinners' hearts to Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit purely out of God's Love for all of us.

If we have chosen as His Children to 'ignore' Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit's calls back to His Heart, through our Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God, to ignore the fact that Jesus/God provides His Loving Holy Graces, Blessings, Gifts and Teachings, including greatly of all, provided (thankyou Mother Mary, our Blessed Virgin Mary has corrected a term I was going to use) our Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God working hard to convert hearts for 'centuries', leading them back to Her Son, Jesus Christ our Saviour, before we die here and/or prior to when Jesus appears here on earth soon, then that is our choice of which we face the consequences eternally; not for a day, not for a month, not for a year; for eternity in Jesus/God's Holy Will.

One must feel pretty confident in their love for Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit and His forgiveness and Mercy at the hour of death, if one is able to easily dismiss The Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God's Loving Holy most powerful (through and by God The Most High) intercession now and at the hour of our deaths when either facing Jesus Christ our Saviour (in His Mercy) and/or facing God The Most High in His wrath and just judgement.

To assist peoples hearts and souls, it is a good idea to read up on the many Saints of whom Jesus Christ our Saviour and our Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God have appeared and/or spoken with throughout the ages delivering Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit's Prayers for mankind to pray with calls for repentance from our hearts to Jesus.

It is interesting to note that many terms Jesus has used within His Holy Words contained within His Holy messages - are terms that Jesus and God The Most High used at times within His Old Testament Holy messages (one example God's Mercy and how The Messiah will be forthcoming with His Mercy) and Jesus within His New Testament teachings including "Eternal Father", "Father the eternal Father" and many other Holy terms and phrases far too complex to explain.

Love and kindest wishes your Sister in Jesus Christ our Saviour

 

[Jonathan95]

Look at the fruit of them, it proves it cannot truly be Mary, because it either starts people worshipping her or feeds their idol worship of her, something which the true Mary wouldn't condone. The true Mary would try to turn people's eyes toward Jesus and not to herself (John 2:5 for example), like John the Baptist is also a good example of "I must decrease, He must increase".
But instead such events seem to make Mary increase where she's already held high.

 

[Rhamiel]

Look at the fruit of them, it proves it cannot truly be Mary, because it either starts people worshipping her or feeds their idol worship of her, something which the true Mary wouldn't condone. The true Mary would try to turn people's eyes toward Jesus and not to herself (John 2:5 for example), like John the Baptist is also a good example of "I must decrease, He must increase".
But instead such events seem to make Mary increase where she's already held high.

lets look at the fruit

people repent of their sins
people receive physical healing
pagans and atheists become Christians
I do not know any Catholics who treat Mary like an idol, so I do not really see any of that negative fruit you speak of

 

[bbbbbbb]

lets look at the fruit

people repent of their sins
people receive physical healing
pagans and atheists become Christians
I do not know any Catholics who treat Mary like an idol, so I do not really see any of that negative fruit you speak of

This is interesting. I know a number of Chinese students at a local Catholic university here. They are quite confused because they have had no exposure to Catholicism prior to coming here. After they arrive they are informed that Mary is not at all a significant figure in Catholicism and that Catholics don't worship her.

Fair enough. Last winter I took a trip with them to Boston, Washington, D.C., and New York City. During the course of our trip we visited a number of churches of various denominations because they were curious about the architecture. The Catholic churches included St. Patrick's in New York City. In all of the Catholic churches there were chapels and altars devoted to Mary with people kneeling before them in adoration or attending Marian masses. The focus was most assuredly on Mary. I did not need to say a word to them concerning the Catholic church's actual relationship to Mary. Actions do speak much louder than words.

 

[concretecamper]

This is interesting. I know a number of Chinese students at a local Catholic university here. They are quite confused because they have had no exposure to Catholicism prior to coming here. After they arrive they are informed that Mary is not at all a significant figure in Catholicism and that Catholics don't worship her.

Fair enough. Last winter I took a trip with them to Boston, Washington, D.C., and New York City. During the course of our trip we visited a number of churches of various denominations because they were curious about the architecture. The Catholic churches included St. Patrick's in New York City. In all of the Catholic churches there were chapels and altars devoted to Mary with people kneeling before them in adoration or attending Marian masses. The focus was most assuredly on Mary. I did not need to say a word to them concerning the Catholic church's actual relationship to Mary. Actions do speak much louder than words.

Can you share with us what you mean by a Marian Mass?