Mar 22: they are at it again

Bethwhite · Mar 15, 2013

Why, because you disagree?

Just say you disagree and move on. No need to bash people for showing what they see in Scripture:

This occurred 5 days before Passover:

John 12:12 The next day the great crowd that had come for the festival heard that Jesus was on his way to Jerusalem. 13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting,
“Hosanna!”

“Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!”

“Blessed is the king of Israel!”

Here is the newly raptured church, doing the exact same thing:

Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:
“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”

Coincidence? NOPE!

SeraphimsCherub · Mar 15, 2013

Thank YOU O LORD for the madness of diversity which sheds new light.

SeraphimsCherub · Mar 15, 2013

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Strong in Him · Mar 15, 2013

Bethwhite said:
Just wait and see.

Sheesh! I'm sorry the return of the Lord is so offensive to you people.

I, for one, am excited that Jesus could return in a few days.

I thought you said you weren't giving a date for the Lord's return, just telling us when the abomination of desolation would appear.

Bethwhite said:
If not this year, then next year.

Or not.

Bethwhite said:
Lighten up! Jesus may be calling us to Him in a few days! Yahoo!!!!

Just out of interest - if you were to die tonight, or on March 22nd, what would that mean? As far as you were concerened, the Lord would have returned; for you. The rest of us would still be here on earth. Would you be sitting in heaven thinking "they've all been left behind; the end will be soon?" Or "The Lord's not returning to earth yet; I got it wrong, he just came for me."

In other words, although I believe Jesus will return to earth, as king, to bring in his perfect rule and kingdom, is there a sense that when we talk of the Lord's return, we mean that he may return for us; that when Scripture says "be ready", it means "because you don't know when you may die or how short your life is"?

Bethwhite · Mar 15, 2013

Strong in Him said:
I thought you said you weren't giving a date for the Lord's return, just telling us when the abomination of desolation would appear.

You have me confused with someone else. The abomination of desolation of Israel/Jerusalem occurred about 1900+ years ago.

The other guy believes the antichrist standing on the Temple Mount and declaring himself to be God is the abomination of desolation. But that isn't accurate. The head wound has to happen first - which happens just after we're removed.

So, if it happens this year, the timing is right but his understanding of how it all goes down is slightly off.

Just out of interest - if you were to die tonight, or on March 22nd, what would that mean? As far as you were concerened, the Lord would have returned; for you.

Apparently, you are unaware of what happens when Jesus appears and calls us to Himself. The dead in Christ rise and we are all caught up together to meet the Lord up there! (1 Thess 4 & 5, 1 Cor 15)

So, if I die tonight, that doesn't change the timing or the event of the gathering to Christ. I will still be a part of it, whether I'm dead or alive.

The rest of us would still be here on earth. Would you be sitting in heaven thinking "they've all been left behind; the end will be soon?" Or "The Lord's not returning to earth yet; I got it wrong, he just came for me."

When the "rapture" occurs, the dead in Christ and the living in Christ are changed to an immortal form - immortal bodies!

In other words, although I believe Jesus will return to earth, as king, to bring in his perfect rule and kingdom, is there a sense that when we talk of the Lord's return, we mean that he may return for us; that when Scripture says "be ready", it means "because you don't know when you may die or how short your life is"?

Yes and no. It depends on the context of the passage you are referring to.

The Spirit was given as a deposit guaranteeing our future.

Our future is bodily immortality at the appearance of the Lord and life with Him forever!

Strong in Him · Mar 15, 2013

Bethwhite said:
You have me confused with someone else.

Sorry.

Bethwhite said:
The abomination of desolation of Israel/Jerusalem occurred about 1900+ years ago.

This is what I mean about eschatology. One person on this forum is adamant that this will happen next week - others say it already has. How are we to know who, or what, to believe when both claim the authority of the Scriptures?

Bethwhite said:
Apparently, you are unaware of what happens when Jesus appears and calls us to Himself. The dead in Christ rise and we are all caught up together to meet the Lord up there! (1 Thess 4 & 5, 1 Cor 15)

I know.
You said, though, that the Lord may call us to himself in the next few days; I'm saying that we could meet him at any time - we could die tonight.

Bethwhite said:
So, if I die tonight, that doesn't change the timing or the event of the gathering to Christ. I will still be a part of it, whether I'm dead or alive.

Yes, but the fact remains that the Lord would still have returned for you.

Though I suppose that after death we will all know everything, including whether we interpreted the Bible correctly or not.

Bethwhite · Mar 15, 2013

Strong in Him said:
Sorry.

This is what I mean about eschatology. One person on this forum is adamant that this will happen next week - others say it already has. How are we to know who, or what, to believe when both claim the authority of the Scriptures?

We talk about it together, use reason, listen to the Holy Spirit.

I can prove what I believe with Scriptural backing. I can disprove what he is saying with Scriptural backing.

It's no different than the whole misunderstanding the disciples had. We're no different. We just have to be willing to listen to one another and accept what God said as absolute truth.

Check it out, Jesus wasn't happy with them:

Mat 16:5 When they went across the lake, the disciples forgot to take bread. 6 “Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
7 They discussed this among themselves and said, “It is because we didn’t bring any bread.”
8 Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread?9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

I know.
You said, though, that the Lord may call us to himself in the next few days; I'm saying that we could meet him at any time - we could die tonight.

Yes, but the fact remains that the Lord would still have returned for you.

Though I suppose that after death we will all know everything, including whether we interpreted the Bible correctly or not.

No, the return of the Lord is a particular, specific event. It's when Jesus is about to start dealing with the devil and the wicked of this world to one end: cast the devil out.

When we die, we go to God individually, yes, but not in immortal bodies.

ptomwebster · Mar 15, 2013

Strong in Him said:
...One person on this forum is adamant that this will happen next week - others say it already has. How are we to know who, or what, to believe when both claim the authority of the Scriptures?

....

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. ...

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

SeraphimsCherub · Mar 15, 2013

2Co 6:8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;

Steve Petersen · Mar 15, 2013

My verse can beat up your verse.

Bethwhite · Mar 15, 2013

ptomwebster said:
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. ...

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Amen!

Jesus said the Holy Spirit teaches us and reminds us what God said but people today follow doctrines of men and demons. Some even deny Scripture in favor of their false doctrine.

SeraphimsCherub · Mar 15, 2013

2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

I don't believe in the fables...I rather by the HELP of GOD try expose the fables that people are being turned unto.

NumberOneSon · Mar 15, 2013

Steve Petersen said:
My verse can beat up your verse.

So very apropo, lol.

Bethwhite · Mar 15, 2013

The point is that believers are reaching the same conclusion even though we're coming at it from different angles/points of view.

We'll know in a few days if this is the year or not.

Strong in Him · Mar 15, 2013

Bethwhite said:
The point is that believers are reaching the same conclusion even though we're coming at it from different angles/points of view.

We'll know in a few days if this is the year or not.

As I said before, why have you written a thread urging us to understand Daniel 12, and telling us that only the wise understand eschatology in general, and these things in particular, when you are so unsure yourself?

If nothing happens when you expect it to, does that mean that YOU have misunderstood Daniel 12?

RDKirk · Mar 15, 2013

Strong in Him said:
As I said before, why have you written a thread urging us to understand Daniel 12, and telling us that only the wise understand eschatology in general, and these things in particular, when you are so unsure yourself?

If nothing happens when you expect it to, does that mean that YOU have misunderstood Daniel 12?

Apparently Jesus also misunderstood Daniel 12.

Bethwhite · Mar 15, 2013

Strong in Him said:
As I said before, why have you written a thread urging us to understand Daniel 12, and telling us that only the wise understand eschatology in general, and these things in particular, when you are so unsure yourself?

If nothing happens when you expect it to, does that mean that YOU have misunderstood Daniel 12?

The only thing I'm unsure about is the year because it is based on when the world said it occurred: 486-487BC. There are disagreements among historians on the timing of it so I don't know which one is accurate.

The third and fourth kings of Persia were Darius and Artexerxes. The timing between their two reigns is sometimes 486, sometimes 487, depending on what historian you go by.

But, Daniel 12 is correct. The totality of the story told is 3500 years. We are at the precipice of the final 1000 years.

eclipsenow · Mar 15, 2013

Bethwhite said:
Just wait and see.

Sheesh! I'm sorry the return of the Lord is so offensive to you people.

I, for one, am excited that Jesus could return in a few days.

If not this year, then next year. Just be ready.

God wrote the end from the beginning. Everything has been written in scripture. AND we were given signs to be on the lookout for. Being watchful and seeing what is written in scripture is not something to condemn a person for, but something to examine and test.

Lighten up! Jesus may be calling us to Him in a few days! Yahoo!!!!

I for one am excited that Jesus could return in 5 seconds (or 50,000 years). I for one am excited that I can see that the Abomination that Causes Desolation was accurately predicted by Jesus and actually happened when Titus invaded Israel, stopped the sacrifice, had soldiers sacrifice to the Eagle Standard in the temple courtyard, destroyed the temple not leaving one stone on another, and (sadly) murdered 1.1 million Israelites in fulfilment of Luke 21. I for one am excited that Revelation is written to John's generation as he teaches in the first chapter, and by extension, to ALL generations of Christians across ALL time as they struggle with persecution, materialism, greed, worldly philosophies and other temptations described in Revelation's pages.

And most of all, I for one am excited that I don't have ANY biblical reason whatsoever to go around embarrassing my Lord by making weirdo predictions that constantly fail and make us all look like a bunch of fruit-loops.

eclipsenow · Mar 15, 2013

Bethwhite said:
Amen!

Jesus said the Holy Spirit teaches us and reminds us what God said but people today follow doctrines of men and demons. Some even deny Scripture in favor of their false doctrine.

Maybe, but claiming 'the Holy Spirit makes it true to me' is not an excuse for poor biblical scholarship.

Bethwhite · Mar 15, 2013

eclipsenow said:
I for one am excited that Jesus could return in 5 seconds (or 50,000 years). I for one am excited that I can see that the Abomination that Causes Desolation was accurately predicted by Jesus and actually happened when Titus invaded Israel, stopped the sacrifice, had soldiers sacrifice to the Eagle Standard in the temple courtyard, destroyed the temple not leaving one stone on another, and (sadly) murdered 1.1 million Israelites in fulfilment of Luke 21. I for one am excited that Revelation is written to John's generation as he teaches in the first chapter, and by extension, to ALL generations of Christians across ALL time as they struggle with persecution, materialism, greed, worldly philosophies and other temptations described in Revelation's pages.

And most of all, I for one am excited that I don't have ANY biblical reason whatsoever to go around embarrassing my Lord by making weirdo predictions that constantly fail and make us all look like a bunch of fruit-loops.

Good for you!

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